Marc Bergevin - Take It Or Leave It Edition

[Runner77]

Time will tell and I hope that we don’t go after Duncan Keith or some other veteran player because he thinks that we are only a piece away from contending. I like the young prospects we are assembling but we need more of them and I certainly do not want to be giving them up at this stage of the game.

He did acquire Shaw for the purpose of a playoff run. Since Habs have missed the playoffs in two of the last three years, that's two years where he wasn't able to say "see, I told you how useful a player like Shaw is in the playoffs."

But, worry not. We have Shaw until 2022-23. And anything can happen until then. You know, just like when the GM is in the playoffs again.

 

[Runner77]

I've given up guessing what Bergevin will do. He could mastermind a stealth attack on a top prospect or draft pick, or he could lurch after a playoff fix with a dumb, desperate trade. Nothing will shock me. Most likely, he'll be Mr. In-Between and passively do nothing at the deadline, other than a minor move or two.

Maybe I'm jinxing it, but I think he's finally realized the only path to contending is through picks & prospects. He took homerun swings at UFAs and trades and missed, so maybe he's realizing that he's a better leadoff hitter.

Bergevin is what he is. Took him 6 years to perform a partial clean-up of his management/development group. And to realize that the league has moved to a youth/speed mode.

I'd hate to find out what the league is moving to next. One thing is certain, the barometer for it won't be a group headed by MB.

 

[habsfan909]

Bergevin is what he is. Took him 6 years to perform a partial clean-up of his management/development group. And to realize that the league has moved to a youth/speed mode.

I'd hate to find out what the league is moving to next. One thing is certain, the barometer for it won't be a group headed by MB.

Don't you get the feeling that MB is getting a contract extension? I think HFboards will break.

 

[Habs]

Not Marner, it's Matthews that need to be targeted.

Leafs will match any offer to keep him, he's the one that need to be targeted to send Leafs in cap hell.

And just in case Leafs do not match and take the 4 first rounds picks... I like more the idea of losing 4 first rounds picks for Matthews then for Marner...

Matthews seems injury prone. Either would be fine, lets be honest.

 

[Runner77]

Don't you get the feeling that MB is getting a contract extension? I think HFboards will break.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. HF will always break and given how polarized this site has become, it's hardly an indicator anymore.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

haven't been on this thread in a long time but I've got this odd feeling that all of MB's seeming blunders might pay off if they're not already. At least in the trade department. You start to look at all of those trades and what are the worst ones? The Shaw and Weber trades. Right now they don't look bad at all. Sure Debrincat and PK are better but are they actually that 'bad'?

All I know is if we win a Cup under him Molson will get a **** ton of kudos for sticking with him. I really don't think it's 'foxholish'. Good or bad is still yet to be seen but it sure was beyond ballsy to keep MB.

I still think the way he handled his players is the worst part of his 'legacy' at the moment. Not the trades or lack there of. I think with Pleks' retirement he may have turned a corner there. Sort of lol.

I'll go out on a limb and say he wins us a Cup in one of the more bizarre twists in Habs history. Doesn't seem that far fetched to me. We really haven't had this much young promise in a LONG LONG time. I honestly don't remember one and I've been paying attention for 30 years (except for 94-00).

He's at least earned himself more time at the present moment. Things can change quick though.

 

[habsfan909]

haven't been on this thread in a long time but I've got this odd feeling that all of MB's seeming blunders might pay off if they're not already. At least in the trade department. You start to look at all of those trades and what are the worst ones? The Shaw and Weber trades. Right now they don't look bad at all. Sure Debrincat and PK are better but are they actually that 'bad'?

All I know is if we win a Cup under him Molson will get a **** ton of kudos for sticking with him. I really don't think it's 'foxholish'. Good or bad is still yet to be seen but it sure was beyond ballsy to keep MB.

I still think the way he handled his players is the worst part of his 'legacy' at the moment. Not the trades or lack there of. I think with Pleks' retirement he may have turned a corner there. Sort of lol.

I'll go out on a limb and say he wins us a Cup in one of the more bizarre twists in Habs history. Doesn't seem that far fetched to me. We really haven't had this much young promise in a LONG LONG time. I honestly don't remember one and I've been paying attention for 30 years (except for 94-00).

He's at least earned himself more time at the present moment. Things can change quick though.

I would happily take back our 2 second round picks we gave up for Shaw... guy is 1 hit away from ending his career and what will he be worth when we're actually (hopefully) ready to contend in a few years?

Weber is playing well but what will he be worth in a few years when he's on the back end of his 30s and PK is in his prime. I am and always have been a big Weber fan but that was and continues to be a terrible trade.

 

[EXPOS123]

I really don't have much faith in Mete panning out. Always thought he was overhyped. That being said, I think he could be a decent throw in to a trade. The Flyers are looking to shake things up by looking to get more secondary scoring. Would Lehkonen and Mete be enough to pry away one of their young D's like a Myers or Morin? I know Morin is out with any injury but should be back in the new year. Would love to see any of those guys next to Webber.

 

[Runner77]

...

All I know is if we win a Cup under him ...

I'll go out on a limb and say he wins us a Cup in one of the more bizarre twists in Habs history. Doesn't seem that far fetched to me. ...

And here I was looking for a comedy show on Netflix. Found one right here.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I would happily take back our 2 second round picks we gave up for Shaw... guy is 1 hit away from ending his career and what will he be worth when we're actually (hopefully) ready to contend in a few years?

Weber is playing well but what will he be worth in a few years when he's on the back end of his 30s and PK is in his prime. I am and always have been a big Weber fan but that was and continues to be a terrible trade.

But my point is that those are his WORST trades. Shaw's looking really good right now and generally has been more good than bad. He seems to take turns with Gallagher for some odd reason in doing well. Right now he's found a spot on the first line and producing. That's one of his WORST trades. I mean if he was so close to being done due to concussions then why is he playing some of his best hockey probably in his career right now?

The other one is still up in the air for me. PK's better. For sure. I'm still not sold that PK would be better for our team dynamic than Weber and yes I fully understand that people think intangibles (and more specifically Weber's) are overrated and indeed sometimes they are. Weber could just be more of what we need in this locker room. It's debatable of course but it's not so open and shut to me that it doesn't matter at all and that PK, if not being a 'cancer', may have been enough of a disturbance to legitimately needed a change of scenery. I'm not saying that's the case 100% but I have my suspicions. And I'm a big PK fan.

I also think Weber will age better. When you see their two styles of play really who's game will be more hampered by the aging process? They can both decline at the same time and I wouldn't be surprised. Right now the trade is in Nashville's favour but it's certainly not a landslide. People are banking on the future to be where Nashville pulls ahead and that to me is not a forgone conclusion.

My point isn't that we've actually won these trades. It's more so that there's been a grand narrative that MB's trades have been for the most part horrible. Franchise crippling horrible. But when you look at his two worst, how bad have they really hampered us? Outside those 2, as far as memory serves, I'm seeing some pretty big wins at the moment while these 2 seem even to we're SLIGHTLY losing.

 

[Vachon23]

But my point is that those are his WORST trades. Shaw's looking really good right now and generally has been more good than bad. He seems to take turns with Gallagher for some odd reason in doing well. Right now he's found a spot on the first line and producing. That's one of his WORST trades. I mean if he was so close to being done due to concussions then why is he playing some of his best hockey probably in his career right now?

The other one is still up in the air for me. PK's better. For sure. I'm still not sold that PK would be better for our team dynamic than Weber and yes I fully understand that people think intangibles (and more specifically Weber's) are overrated and indeed sometimes they are. Weber could just be more of what we need in this locker room. It's debatable of course but it's not so open and shut to me that it doesn't matter at all and that PK, if not being a 'cancer', may have been enough of a disturbance to legitimately needed a change of scenery. I'm not saying that's the case 100% but I have my suspicions. And I'm a big PK fan.

I also think Weber will age better. When you see their two styles of play really who's game will be more hampered by the aging process? They can both decline at the same time and I wouldn't be surprised. Right now the trade is in Nashville's favour but it's certainly not a landslide. People are banking on the future to be where Nashville pulls ahead and that to me is not a forgone conclusion.

My point isn't that we've actually won these trades. It's more so that there's been a grand narrative that MB's trades have been for the most part horrible. Franchise crippling horrible. But when you look at his two worst, how bad have they really hampered us? Outside those 2, as far as memory serves, I'm seeing some pretty big wins at the moment while these 2 seem even to we're SLIGHTLY losing.

That's why when your DG, you should NEVER listen to fans... We are emotional and we think like that ! We would all be destroy if we had a debate on how to build a hockey team with Bergevin

 

[Cobra Commander]

Matthews seems injury prone. Either would be fine, lets be honest.

I would offer Marner 13 mil x 7 years and make him the highest payed player in the league. He would certainly be worth it for us, and we would instantly crush the Leafs franchise. They could have our next 4 mid to low picks.

Drouin-Domi-Marner

 

[SirClintonPortis]

And here I was thinking that the true tectonic shift took place when Bergevin was rejected by the likes of Nick Bonino and Milan Lucic.

I don't think we ever left the "anything can happen in the playoffs" diktat. It was just conveniently smothered by the GM's temporary "reset" talk.

Lucic was simply tantalized by the thought of McDavid padding his stats. Otherwise, he would be a Hab and Radulov gets blocked out of the NHL.

 

[OldCraig71]

He did acquire Shaw for the purpose of a playoff run. Since Habs have missed the playoffs in two of the last three years, that's two years where he wasn't able to say "see, I told you how useful a player like Shaw is in the playoffs."

But, worry not. We have Shaw until 2022-23. And anything can happen until then. You know, just like when the GM is in the playoffs again.

All we need now is Duncan Keith and refreshed Karl Alzner and things are looking bright.

 

[Habs Icing]

Kept saying for a while now....this management won't do a rebuild. Not at this point cause they won't have enough leash to finish it, not in Montreal. A management could do it if they were on day 1 of their job.

Today, they are 5th in their division....meaning that there's 11 teams that were not able to do better than this Habs team so far this season.....and that's mostly without Weber. They are the 2nd best team in the NHL at 5-on-5 for scoring goals. Questions should be: How the F did that happened?

At this point i would say that they got two choices. Either you miss the PO by a couple a points or either you get in by a couple of points. Either way, the Habs will draft between 14 and 22 and for me, it's the same thing.

Bergevin never really made big changes at TDL or giving up a lot of good assets, so i'm not worried about that but one thing for sure, he's not living 3 years without some help on the LD cause that's the minimum he'll have to wait in order to get some help through the draft or his prospects.

And that's what the posters calling for trading vets for picks or prospects seem to ignore. Three years is a long time in hockey terms. Go back and take a look at this team's roster three years ago. You can barely recognize it when compared to this year's. And If MB goes the rebuild route we're not talking three years we're talking 4, 5 maybe 6 years. In four years other holes will start to emerge in the lineup.

We have a good core right now. Build on that.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I would offer Marner 13 mil x 7 years and make him the highest payed player in the league. He would certainly be worth it for us, and we would instantly crush the Leafs franchise. They could have our next 4 mid to low picks.

Drouin-Domi-Marner

yeah sure, and with the money saved, they can do the same with Domi and Kotkaniemi in two years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes it is, it's a very good lineup... you think you need to have an all-star team to be a contender ?

... and how exactly can this team get any better with middle of the pack picks ?

I think most cup winners have multiple superstars on them and I don't think the lineup listed there comes close to measuring up. It would be hugely dependent on Price to win for us.

Look at the clubs that win cups, it's not that uncommon for them to have three superstars on it. We need better talent.

What is it going to take for us to change then? Most of the fanbase wants to cheer for their team to win but are unwilling to face the reality of what it takes to achieve long term success.

I don't think this is true. I think if we embarked on a real rebuild, the fans would get behind it.

I heard the same thing in TO for years "the fans won't accept it"... of course they will.

You know how it happened?? They got rid of two very very soft players in Galchenyuk and Pacioretty and brought in guys with arguably less talent like donie and Tatar but who have way more character and drive and who aren’t lazy ****ers like Patch and Galchenyuk
Changing the character in the desssing room helps a lot

What helps is adding talent.

Talent wins cups. "Character" is window dressing. It's something that gets applied to players after they win. Look no further than Steve Yzerman. So many critics said he didn't have the "character" to win. Then the moment he won his first cup those same idiots starting talking about what a great leader he was. It's all crap.

Talented teams win cups. That's what you need. Character players are fine and dandy and they can be useful, but if you don't have the talent you're not going anywhere. And it's a hell of a lot harder to find talented players than "character" ones.

And that's what the posters calling for trading vets for picks or prospects seem to ignore. Three years is a long time in hockey terms. Go back and take a look at this team's roster three years ago. You can barely recognize it when compared to this year's. And If MB goes the rebuild route we're not talking three years we're talking 4, 5 maybe 6 years. In four years other holes will start to emerge in the lineup.

We have a good core right now. Build on that.

Sure, build on it.

But do it by trading vets for picks and prospects. Do it by getting younger and more talented. Recognize that you aren't going to win in the shorterm and invest in the longterm. Toronto fought against it for years... are they upset now? Of course not. That's the way to go. Washington, Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA... they all did it and won.

 

[Cobra Commander]

yeah sure, and with the money saved, they can do the same with Domi and Kotkaniemi in two years.

Bring it on. They can try what ever they please. It’s within the rules, I don’t see why we should care about how it could hurt them.

Tell me you wouldn’t offer sheet Marner to 13 x 7 if YOU had the chance.. If you could push the button anonymously.. you would.. I would..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'll go out on a limb and say he wins us a Cup in one of the more bizarre twists in Habs history. Doesn't seem that far fetched to me. We really haven't had this much young promise in a LONG LONG time.

You mean except from when he took over? I'll take that team over this one in a heartbeat. It had two superstars on the verge of breaking out plus tons of young talent and a third overall pick.

 

[Habs]

I would offer Marner 13 mil x 7 years and make him the highest payed player in the league. He would certainly be worth it for us, and we would instantly crush the Leafs franchise. They could have our next 4 mid to low picks.

Drouin-Domi-Marner

Whatever destroys Leaf Nation, I'm in. Whatever makes the CBC and HNic cry tears of rage, I'm sure it would result in a rule change for the next CBA if they lose anyone to an RFA offer sheet.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Bring it on. They can try what ever they please. It’s within the rules, I don’t see why we should care about how it could hurt them.

no one does. How about hurting your own team ?

picture Drouin and Marner centered by... Danault
(cause Domi/Kotka signed elsewhere in 2 years you know)

 

[Cobra Commander]

no one does. How about hurting your own team ?

picture Drouin and Marner centered by... Danault
(cause Domi/Kotka signed elsewhere in 2 years you know)

It won’t happen, we would match. They still wouldn’t have the cap space to do it back to us. By the time all the smoke blows over, Bergevin will be gone anyways.

 

[scrubadam]

Time will tell and I hope that we don’t go after Duncan Keith or some other veteran player because he thinks that we are only a piece away from contending. I like the young prospects we are assembling but we need more of them and I certainly do not want to be giving them up at this stage of the game.

Would you take Duncan Keith for like a 2nd or 3rd and some middling pieces (Mac/Hudon etc...)?

Duncan is up there in age but his last 2 years of contract are 2 and 1.5 million I don't know if he plays. In 2 seasons he drops to 2.6 which could be tradable with how little he is owed those final 3 years.

I also think Muzzin could be someone to go after for LD.

I think its possible to get a decent to good LD without selling the farm.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It won’t happen, we would match. They still wouldn’t have the cap space to do it back to us. By the time all the smoke blows over, Bergevin will be gone anyways.

Ah! I see! a case of "we can do whatever, others will not do the same to us"

I leave you to your fantasy then.

 

[habsfan909]

But my point is that those are his WORST trades. Shaw's looking really good right now and generally has been more good than bad. He seems to take turns with Gallagher for some odd reason in doing well. Right now he's found a spot on the first line and producing. That's one of his WORST trades. I mean if he was so close to being done due to concussions then why is he playing some of his best hockey probably in his career right now?

The other one is still up in the air for me. PK's better. For sure. I'm still not sold that PK would be better for our team dynamic than Weber and yes I fully understand that people think intangibles (and more specifically Weber's) are overrated and indeed sometimes they are. Weber could just be more of what we need in this locker room. It's debatable of course but it's not so open and shut to me that it doesn't matter at all and that PK, if not being a 'cancer', may have been enough of a disturbance to legitimately needed a change of scenery. I'm not saying that's the case 100% but I have my suspicions. And I'm a big PK fan.

I also think Weber will age better. When you see their two styles of play really who's game will be more hampered by the aging process? They can both decline at the same time and I wouldn't be surprised. Right now the trade is in Nashville's favour but it's certainly not a landslide. People are banking on the future to be where Nashville pulls ahead and that to me is not a forgone conclusion.

My point isn't that we've actually won these trades. It's more so that there's been a grand narrative that MB's trades have been for the most part horrible. Franchise crippling horrible. But when you look at his two worst, how bad have they really hampered us? Outside those 2, as far as memory serves, I'm seeing some pretty big wins at the moment while these 2 seem even to we're SLIGHTLY losing.

That's not all he's done though... Alzner, losing Radulov, Markov situation ended poorly, there are others. Also some really poor drafting, terrible development (yes he is responsible for the team he had in place), giving Carey 10.5 mill to try and cover up losing Radulov.
And we lucked out that Lucic didn't want to sign here despite big offer from MB.