Marc Bergevin Part II: Better Than Expected

[Runner77]

I want to believe this also, I really want to.

 

[OldCraig71]

Do you believe in aliens runner? You don't sleep, so are you even human?

 

[DangerDave]

Why is that?

Because I don't think we would have struggled as badly as we did and in consequence drafted KK. Don't think we would have traded Patches and Chucky either. Not gonna give MB credit or anything. Just saying that I'm happy that the Habs retooled/ rebuilt a bit.

 

[DangerDave]

I disagree. I believe we would be in better position than we are today.

In my opinion, Subban is better than Weber and Rads would still be our best forward today.

I like both the Galchenyuk and Pacioretty trades however these 2 players could have been traded regardless of Subban and Radulov being on the team.

I don't think we're competitive even with Rad and Subban and I know for sure those trades don't get made if we're a bubble team which I firmly believe we would have been. No KK and likely no Ylonen or Romanov either.

 

[Kriss E]

Because I don't think we would have struggled as badly as we did and in consequence drafted KK. Don't think we would have traded Patches and Chucky either. Not gonna give MB credit or anything. Just saying that I'm happy that the Habs retooled/ rebuilt a bit.

You don't know any of that. We had 9th pick with Subban on the team before. Sure he got injured, and nothing tells us he wouldn't have been injured again.
But then..maybe we start the year again with Galch centering Patches and Radu, with Subban there. Maybe we re-sign Markov too. Maybe we trade Subban for an actual forward. Who the hell knows.

You happy...yes, it's a common trend this year. People are quite happy with this bubble team, it's rather funny to see how so many fans have set their standards so freaking low.

 

[DangerDave]

You don't know any of that. We had 9th pick with Subban on the team before. Sure he got injured, and nothing tells us he wouldn't have been injured again.
But then..maybe we start the year again with Galch centering Patches and Radu, with Subban there. Maybe we re-sign Markov too. Maybe we trade Subban for an actual forward. Who the hell knows.

You happy...yes, it's a common trend this year. People are quite happy with this bubble team, it's rather funny to see how so many fans have set their standards so freaking low.

Of course it's all speculation. And no my standards are not low. I look for trends and this team is trending in the right direction imo. They got younger, faster and better overall while having arguably one of the best prospect pools in the league.

It's unreasonable to think this team could go from 28th to first in the span of a season.

 

[Kriss E]

Of course it's all speculation. And no my standards are not low. I look for trends and this team is trending in the right direction imo. They got younger, faster and better overall while having arguably one of the best prospect pools in the league.

It's unreasonable to think this team could go from 28th to first in the span of a season.

1) The team isn't first.
2) They got ''better overall''? In relation to what year? Last season? Well that wasn't very difficult to do considering how low they were.
3) ''Best'' prospect pool is very subjective.
4) You don't know if they're trending in the right direction. They could simply be having a ''good'' year.

 

[CDN24]

1) The team isn't first.
2) They got ''better overall''? In relation to what year? Last season? Well that wasn't very difficult to do considering how low they were.
3) ''Best'' prospect pool is very subjective.
4) You don't know if they're trending in the right direction. They could simply be having a ''good'' year.

1) neither are 29 other teams
2) They certainly got more entertaining. Better than they were and probably better in terms of their future prospects (not players but prospects of winning) than they have anytime in MBs tenure. That is subjective too I know. Centre position looks good-something it hasn't looked since Damphousse left
3) so is "worst prospect pool- I'd rather have the one that people are calling one of the best though.
4) maybe last year was a bad year much like the 2000's were a bad decade

I get that you are not happy with the team or MB, but credit where credit is due - the man has made some great moves recently.

 

[Sorinth]

The funny thing is that if we didn't trade Subban and resigned Rad, we wouldn't be in the favorable position we are in now. We'd still be spinning our tires in the mud so to speak.

MB is/was pretty incompetent but his incompetence actually worked out for the Habs funnily enough

Are we really in that favourable of a position?

If our prospects will take 3-4 years to become impact players then there's a good chance that some of Price, Weber, Petry will no longer be on the team or have regressed from their current levels of play. So the end result would be we are still spinning our wheels not being good enough to be a true contender.

 

[DAChampion]

Are we really in that favourable of a position?

If our prospects will take 3-4 years to become impact players then there's a good chance that some of Price, Weber, Petry will no longer be on the team or have regressed from their current levels of play. So the end result would be we are still spinning our wheels not being good enough to be a true contender.

It's a standard fallacy. People assume that the existing prospects will get better, without also assuming that the existing core will get worse.

Price, Weber, Petry ... possibly also Tatar, Gallagher, etc.

 

[DangerDave]

1) The team isn't first.
2) They got ''better overall''? In relation to what year? Last season? Well that wasn't very difficult to do considering how low they were.
3) ''Best'' prospect pool is very subjective.
4) You don't know if they're trending in the right direction. They could simply be having a ''good'' year.

I never said they were first. Had you read my post, I said it's unreasonable to expect this team to go from bottom to top in one season

Yes that is called trending up. Maybe they are overperforming but their is no way last year's roster performs anywhere nearly as well as this years.

I said arguably among the league's best prospect pools. And of course it's subjective. I'm starting my opinion. Do I need to add"imo" to everything I write?
See my second argument

 

[MaxDummy]

MB is/was pretty incompetent but his incompetence actually worked out for the Habs funnily enough

How so?

EDIT: answer on page 2!

 

[DangerDave]

Are we really in that favourable of a position?

If our prospects will take 3-4 years to become impact players then there's a good chance that some of Price, Weber, Petry will no longer be on the team or have regressed from their current levels of play. So the end result would be we are still spinning our wheels not being good enough to be a true contender.

Having a good prospect pool and a young team is always favorable. Now I don't know what MB is shooting for. Trading one of Petry and Weber is the right move if he's banking on a long term rebuild. Habs have good trade pieces if he wants to contend next year. It's certainly not bleak like it was last year.

Edit: I don't want to say we've addressed the center situation just yet but that was the teams biggest weakness and it's gotten better. I firmly believe that the key to building a good contender is having a solid 1 and 2 c. Also, if we can snag a solid free agent, this team looks good

 

[Sorinth]

1) The team isn't first.
2) They got ''better overall''? In relation to what year? Last season? Well that wasn't very difficult to do considering how low they were.
3) ''Best'' prospect pool is very subjective.
4) You don't know if they're trending in the right direction. They could simply be having a ''good'' year.

This is the strangest part. I mean we are on pace for 96 points, how is that considered good? Under Gainey we averaged 95 points a season, so at best we are back to where we were 14 years ago at the start of his first 5 year rebuilding plan.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is the strangest part. I mean we are on pace for 96 points, how is that considered good? Under Gainey we averaged 95 points a season, so at best we are back to where we were 14 years ago at the start of his first 5 year rebuilding plan.

It's the Bergevin zero-sum game.

You lose some you gain some, you stay afloat. Yay

 

[DangerDave]

It's a standard fallacy. People assume that the existing prospects will get better, without also assuming that the existing core will get worse.

Price, Weber, Petry ... possibly also Tatar, Gallagher, etc.

While I agree, when is the last time we've had a prospect pool this promising? It's not like we can't get a return on those guys either.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don't know any of that. We had 9th pick with Subban on the team before. Sure he got injured, and nothing tells us he wouldn't have been injured again.
But then..maybe we start the year again with Galch centering Patches and Radu, with Subban there. Maybe we re-sign Markov too. Maybe we trade Subban for an actual forward. Who the hell knows.

You happy...yes, it's a common trend this year. People are quite happy with this bubble team, it's rather funny to see how so many fans have set their standards so freaking low.

People are happy with the positive momentum we have with our current team and the prospect pool. Why shouldn't we be? Cause we are not a top 5 contender? I think those who are happy about how we are currently trending are fully aware that we likely don't win a cup or even get past the 1st round.

A bottom 5 or top 10 pick is gone at this stage. We are too legit to be the team you thought we would be heading into the year. You were wrong buddy but you can wait for your next time to strike when we lose in the 1st round. I'll expect it. Then you can start all over and say we will be a bottom team for sure again next year.

 

[Sorinth]

Having a good prospect pool and a young team is always favorable. Now I don't know what MB is shooting for. Trading one of Petry and Weber is the right move if he's banking on a long term rebuild. Habs have good trade pieces if he wants to contend next year. It's certainly not bleak like it was last year

If the bar is not as bad as last year that's a very low bar.

Also the average age of our team is 26.7, the NHL average is 27.4.
We have six players younger then 24, that puts us 21st in the league

NHL: Roster Breakdowns by Age

 

[DangerDave]

If the bar is not as bad as last year that's a very low bar.

Also the average age of our team is 26.7, the NHL average is 27.4.
We have six players younger then 24, that puts us 21st in the league

NHL: Roster Breakdowns by Age

Which makes us the second youngest team last I checked. I think we have quality in those younger guys. Gally and Danault are 25 and 26 also. That's not old. Progress has been made. Theirs still issues to address but it's getting better.

 

[Sorinth]

Which makes us the second youngest team last I checked. I think we have quality in those younger guys. Gally and Danault are 25 and 26 also. That's not old. Progress has been made. Theirs still issues to address but it's getting better.

It was 8th youngest but since it's less then 1 year from average it's basically meaningless. We are right there with most teams with regards to age.

And we don't actually have a bunch of young guys we basically have one super young guy and no very old guys which makes the average look better.

 

[DangerDave]

It was 8th youngest but since it's less then 1 year from average it's basically meaningless. We are right there with most teams with regards to age.

And we don't actually have a bunch of young guys we basically have one super young guy and no very old guys which makes the average look better.

Ahh google said it was second but that's probably factoring in Juulsen and such.

Depends on what you qualify as old. Regardless, what I'm saying is we have a good core of guys that can play good hockey for the next few years.

We'll need our prospects to pan out well. I'm pretty optimistic about this group of prospects. Last time I was this optimistic was when we had Price, Subban and Patches coming up. I wouldn't be surprised if 3 of them became quality NHL players.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It was 8th youngest but since it's less then 1 year from average it's basically meaningless. We are right there with most teams with regards to age.

And we don't actually have a bunch of young guys we basically have one super young guy and no very old guys which makes the average look better.

That's all great, but the actual youth and development problem will come in the next two years where we're expecting at least 2 to 4 prospects added to an already young core.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

While I agree, when is the last time we've had a prospect pool this promising? It's not like we can't get a return on those guys either.

The prospect pool being promising is different than other years IMO.

We had guys win top in their position at WJCs, not just participate.

We are fortunate to have had a plethora of picks in the last few drafts, many in the top end. The habs had 11 picks in top 3 rounds over last 2 seasons. Usually you get 6. Add in Suzuki and that's 12 top 3 round picks...

It's also encouraging that we have 1st,2nd,2nd,3rd,4th,4th,5th,5th,6th,7th in the 2019 draft and this doesn't include if we trade anyone for more picks(example: Benn).

So prospect wise we're in an above average position relative to usual. Of course, there's no guarantee.

 

[habsgirl5000]

better then expected?

how so?

we are better then our 100+ point division championships?

wow, talk about lowering the standards and expectations

 

[thegoalie39]

People are happy with the positive momentum we have with our current team and the prospect pool. Why shouldn't we be? Cause we are not a top 5 contender? I think those who are happy about how we are currently trending are fully aware that we likely don't win a cup or even get past the 1st round.

A bottom 5 or top 10 pick is gone at this stage. We are too legit to be the team you thought we would be heading into the year. You were wrong buddy but you can wait for your next time to strike when we lose in the 1st round. I'll expect it. Then you can start all over and say we will be a bottom team for sure again next year.

Montreal better have a legitimate chance to win the cup if they are in the playoffs if not then the idiot GM just wasted another year with Price and Weber.