Marc Bergevin Part II: Better Than Expected

[Habs Halifax]

In hindsight if those are his 5 worst moves he really hasn't been that bad afterall lol

Weber has been playing great hockey for Montreal. That trade may favour the Preds but only so slightly. Radulov should have been resigned, but to me he showed his true colours which was that he is a gun for hire.

Shaw has been a very serviceable NHL player. De La Rose, Fucale were former 2nd rounders that amounted to little to nothing. Lehkonen is earning his stripes and is still young his best hockey is only beginning. It was a bit of a wash since he moved Eller for two 2nds.

Letting Markov walk hurt more emotionally because he was such a longstanding Canadien, but his best hockey was long long gone.

Alzner..well that was a bad one.

My critism of Bergevin doesn't lie with single moves, but the collection of them. He let Radulov and Markov walk the same summer and replaced them with Hemsky and Streit. That was terrible he got caught with his pants down on that one.

Trading a LD prospect for a LW in Drouin was also a head scratcher because at the time we had Pacioretty and Galchenyuk already as LW.

1) Alzner we agree. It's horrible.
2) Weber vs Subban. Questionable move no doubt about it. But we got Weber. Could of been Hall for Larsson.
3) Markov. We were going to lose him to retirement regardless. Just sucks that Markov was not willing to take a base plus performance contract as a 39 year old. Chara did with the Bruins.
4) Radulov. I think Bergevin got upset when he didn't want to give a team friendly deal. His mistake was not willing to overpay slightly. Radulov would of re-signed if we gave him $7.5M and he would of been worth it.
5) Drouin for Sergachev. I'm OK with it. We got a very good young player that wants to play for the Habs. Can't wait till Drouin plays with a real top 2 center with Montreal.

Alzner and Radulov. Those two hurt. Imagine having Radulov in the mix with no Alzner? We would still have cap space left to go after other impact players

 

[Habs Halifax]

He had McCarron and Scherbak who were just drafted plus his 2015 1st round pick.

We would of still not been trading from a position of strength. That's the point and it's different today. We are stock piled at center and at RD with a few other pieces here and there. The prospect pool has not been in this shape in a very long time.

We are in a very good situation. A team on the rise with a good mix of youth and vets with a top prospect pool. And with lots of cap space. I have confidence we can improve moving forward but we need to stay patient.

 

[blarneylad]

1) Alzner we agree. It's horrible.
2) Weber vs Subban. Questionable move no doubt about it. But we got Weber. Could of been Hall for Larsson.
3) Markov. We were going to lose him to retirement regardless. Just sucks that Markov was not willing to take a base plus performance contract as a 39 year old. Chara did with the Bruins.
4) Radulov. I think Bergevin got upset when he didn't want to give a team friendly deal. His mistake was not willing to overpay slightly. Radulov would of re-signed if we gave him $7.5M and he would of been worth it.
5) Drouin for Sergachev. I'm OK with it. We got a very good young player that wants to play for the Habs. Can't wait till Drouin plays with a real top 2 center with Montreal.

Alzner and Radulov. Those two hurt. Imagine having Radulov in the mix with no Alzner? We would still have cap space left to go after other impact players

Might not have Kotkaniemi either though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Might not have Kotkaniemi either though.

True. Hard to say. Maybe we end up with Hughes or Bozvist instead?

If the injuries were the same but with Radulov for a full year, I think we still finish bottom 10 somewhere. Heck, maybe we win the draft lottery 2nd spot and take Svechnikov?

 

[Sorinth]

Curious to what people think is the top 5 worse moves Bergevin has made.

1) Signing Alzner
2) Weber for PK trade
3) Not willing to re-sign Radulov at a higher AAV than what he got with the Stars
4) Offering the 39 year old Markov a base plus performance contract and Markov bolts to the KHL.
5) Trading two 2nd's for Shaw

Some of his worst moves were the non-moves such as doing virtually nothing at the deadline in 2016-2017 or not addressing the need for a top-6 player throughout his first 4-5 years.

1) Hiring Therrien
2) Hiring Lefebvre
3) Subban contract negotiations
4) Signing Desharnais to a 4 year deal
5) Letting Radulov walk/not signing him to longer then a 1 year deal in the first place

 

[MaxDummy]

Therrien I was fine with for maybe a transition year, max 2. Not 5

 

[Milhouse40]

I don't mind the Shaw trade personally. But I think DD should of been moved instead of Eller. Bergevin attacked Subban and Eller talking about "Character" and he was wrong in the summer of 16.

Shaw was needed on the RW side. We lacked RW's behind Gallagher.

But yeah... DD should of been moved for a bag of pucks.

We needed a RW....Let's watch the evolution of Bergevin's work for that top 6 right winger.

1- Traded Cole for Ryder.

At the time he got some value in a player that doesn't wanted to be here and got another player that doesn't wanted to be here at all for one year plus a 3rd round pick for a player that was a 20-25 goals scorer, might have waited too long before trading him. Cole remained pretty much a 20 goals scorer for the rest of his contract and even got Dallas Mattias Backman , Mattias Janmark and a 2015 2nd round pick.

So basically, Dallas traded a very older Cole as a rental and received more than Bergevin did for a younger , better Cole for 3 years.

2- Signing Briere for 2 years

We needed a center much more than a winger....but we signed a center to play wing. We needed size and added another small player. Was it bad? It was horrible as a decision but it was even worst when you realized that Jagr was begging to play here......Jagr got 67 points that season and he's a giant. Perfect fit.

3- Traded Briere for Parenteau

Wanting to get rid of a player Therrien hated, he trade one year left of a bad contract for 2 years left of Parenteau.

4- Rebuy Parenteau's final year

Therrien hated Parenteau too.....

5- Signing of Alex Semin, Jiri Sekac

Now let's try some magic beans to see if some can work

6- Trade for Andrew Shaw

Had to give 2 high 2nd round pick and a giant contract cause you know, we needed a top 6 winger so let's get a bottom 6 wingers that the GM had a crush on. Oh, and this where i add : Jagr was coming out of 66 points season.

7- Signing of Alex Radulov

Finally some skills, some size....let's sign the guy for one year only. Shaw deserve 6 years but signing Radulov 2 years is out of the question. Alzner also at 4 years is an okay bet.....but the best UFA outside of the NHL can go back of the line. Lucic also can have a 7 year deal in front of him, no problem.

8-Refuse to sign Radulov for 1M per season

Of course money is so tight....with 1M you can have a grinding gem like Deslauriers in the line-up. No way.

9- Trading Joel Armia

Okay, he cost nothing, he's doing a good job so it's a great move. While adding RW like Armia and Shaw, poeple still say we need that big right winger.....putting Lehkonen on the right, even Byron at times and Gallagher, still not enough.

Bergevin never fixed the problem long term and he blew the both opportunities that was HANDED to him. Radulov and Jagr wanting to play here was a gift that he refused.

Oh he got this for cheap, Oh that price was right....yeah maybe, but all i see lately is how we need to get that big right winger with skills......cause Bergevin never fixed the problem.

Cheap Magic beans solutions and bad decisions all around.
That's the body of work from Bergevin for the RW....7 years and still nothing.

 

[Censored Toad]

We needed a RW....Let's watch the evolution of Bergevin's work for that top 6 right winger.

1- Traded Cole for Ryder.

At the time he got some value in a player that doesn't wanted to be here and got another player that doesn't wanted to be here at all for one year plus a 3rd round pick for a player that was a 20-25 goals scorer, might have waited too long before trading him. Cole remained pretty much a 20 goals scorer for the rest of his contract and even got Dallas Mattias Backman , Mattias Janmark and a 2015 2nd round pick.

So basically, Dallas traded a very older Cole as a rental and received more than Bergevin did for a younger , better Cole for 3 years.

2- Signing Briere for 2 years

We needed a center much more than a winger....but we signed a center to play wing. We needed size and added another small player. Was it bad? It was horrible as a decision but it was even worst when you realized that Jagr was begging to play here......Jagr got 67 points that season and he's a giant. Perfect fit.

3- Traded Briere for Parenteau

Wanting to get rid of a player Therrien hated, he trade one year left of a bad contract for 2 years left of Parenteau.

4- Rebuy Parenteau's final year

Therrien hated Parenteau too.....

5- Signing of Alex Semin, Jiri Sekac

Now let's try some magic beans to see if some can work

6- Trade for Andrew Shaw

Had to give 2 high 2nd round pick and a giant contract cause you know, we needed a top 6 winger so let's get a bottom 6 wingers that the GM had a crush on. Oh, and this where i add : Jagr was coming out of 66 points season.

7- Signing of Alex Radulov

Finally some skills, some size....let's sign the guy for one year only. Shaw deserve 6 years but signing Radulov 2 years is out of the question. Alzner also at 4 years is an okay bet.....but the best UFA outside of the NHL can go back of the line. Lucic also can have a 7 year deal in front of him, no problem.

8-Refuse to sign Radulov for 1M per season

Of course money is so tight....with 1M you can have a grinding gem like Deslauriers in the line-up. No way.

9- Trading Joel Armia

Okay, he cost nothing, he's doing a good job so it's a great move. While adding RW like Armia and Shaw, poeple still say we need that big right winger.....putting Lehkonen on the right, even Byron at times and Gallagher, still not enough.

Bergevin never fixed the problem long term and he blew the both opportunities that was HANDED to him. Radulov and Jagr wanting to play here was a gift that he refused.

Oh he got this for cheap, Oh that price was right....yeah maybe, but all i see lately is how we need to get that big right winger with skills......cause Bergevin never fixed the problem.

Cheap Magic beans solutions and bad decisions all around.
That's the body of work from Bergevin for the RW....7 years and still nothing.

But he's trying and working the phones hard.... come on milhouse !!! BE reasonable here.....
Radulove and Markov.... those two are the sorest of many sore spots during his tenure...

 

[Andy]

I think it always good to have a nuanced perspective.

No doubt that MB did a helluva a job this past year. He deserves every bit of praise for the moves done in that time.

That doesn't change the fact that previous 6 (or is it 7 years) was marked by inadequacy. No, MB never made a move that completely crippled the franchise, but he did fail to add to the core he had previously. Because the old core never got the support it needed to get over the hump, it simply got older, less productive and eventually had to be replaced. So no, no crippling move, but definitely a wasted opportunity and that falls squarely on his shoulders. The Therrien/Lefebvre experiment was awful, as was insistence to fill gaps with complete long-shot gambles (his lottery ticket analogy fits here).

Essentially MB built up the club to the same point where he inherited it. Not many GMs get a chance to start over again. His second go from a lottery position (this time his doing, as opposed to coming into a lottery situation) has been pretty darn good so far.

2012-2013 to 2017-2018 was nothing short of disappointing. Hard not to call that period from lottery pick to lottery pick a failure. In fact, it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. The organization failed at every level, ahl and nhl. In fact, it failed so hard, the entire management staff at both levels were overhauled. The team's entire leadership core (price/gallagher aside) was also shipped out. It was a failure. No backbreaking moves, but the inability to add support resulted in a full organizational collapse.

The sort of "reboot" starting with this 2018-2019 has been great. Let's hope it continues this way. Not many people get a second chance like this. MB so far has taken it very, very seriously and has performed greatly. It would be equally disingenuous to try and detract from the positives brought about in the last year.

 

[Sorinth]

We needed a RW....Let's watch the evolution of Bergevin's work for that top 6 right winger.

1- Traded Cole for Ryder.

At the time he got some value in a player that doesn't wanted to be here and got another player that doesn't wanted to be here at all for one year plus a 3rd round pick for a player that was a 20-25 goals scorer, might have waited too long before trading him. Cole remained pretty much a 20 goals scorer for the rest of his contract and even got Dallas Mattias Backman , Mattias Janmark and a 2015 2nd round pick.

So basically, Dallas traded a very older Cole as a rental and received more than Bergevin did for a younger , better Cole for 3 years.

2- Signing Briere for 2 years

We needed a center much more than a winger....but we signed a center to play wing. We needed size and added another small player. Was it bad? It was horrible as a decision but it was even worst when you realized that Jagr was begging to play here......Jagr got 67 points that season and he's a giant. Perfect fit.

3- Traded Briere for Parenteau

Wanting to get rid of a player Therrien hated, he trade one year left of a bad contract for 2 years left of Parenteau.

4- Rebuy Parenteau's final year

Therrien hated Parenteau too.....

5- Signing of Alex Semin, Jiri Sekac

Now let's try some magic beans to see if some can work

6- Trade for Andrew Shaw

Had to give 2 high 2nd round pick and a giant contract cause you know, we needed a top 6 winger so let's get a bottom 6 wingers that the GM had a crush on. Oh, and this where i add : Jagr was coming out of 66 points season.

7- Signing of Alex Radulov

Finally some skills, some size....let's sign the guy for one year only. Shaw deserve 6 years but signing Radulov 2 years is out of the question. Alzner also at 4 years is an okay bet.....but the best UFA outside of the NHL can go back of the line. Lucic also can have a 7 year deal in front of him, no problem.

8-Refuse to sign Radulov for 1M per season

Of course money is so tight....with 1M you can have a grinding gem like Deslauriers in the line-up. No way.

9- Trading Joel Armia

Okay, he cost nothing, he's doing a good job so it's a great move. While adding RW like Armia and Shaw, poeple still say we need that big right winger.....putting Lehkonen on the right, even Byron at times and Gallagher, still not enough.

Bergevin never fixed the problem long term and he blew the both opportunities that was HANDED to him. Radulov and Jagr wanting to play here was a gift that he refused.

Oh he got this for cheap, Oh that price was right....yeah maybe, but all i see lately is how we need to get that big right winger with skills......cause Bergevin never fixed the problem.

Cheap Magic beans solutions and bad decisions all around.
That's the body of work from Bergevin for the RW....7 years and still nothing.

This is why it's somewhat flawed to look at the worst moves and say it isn't so bad. Sure apart from letting Radulov walk none of the moves were all that horrible. But not finding a long term solution for the top-6 for over 5+ years is horrible.

 

[Habby4Life]

Hopimg MB has a creative trade line. Adds through hockey trades and uses the cap as a tool to get players who are under contract.

 

[Fixxer]

Some of his worst moves were the non-moves such as doing virtually nothing at the deadline in 2016-2017 or not addressing the need for a top-6 player throughout his first 4-5 years.

1) Hiring Therrien
2) Hiring Lefebvre
3) Subban contract negotiations
4) Signing Desharnais to a 4 year deal
5) Letting Radulov walk/not signing him to longer then a 1 year deal in the first place

I agree with the first 4. The last one too, but half of it.
No team would have signed Radulov more than one year after how it ended up with the Predators.
Bergevin contacted Fedorov to have information on Radulov.
Gave him a 1 year deal. -- Radulov played juniors in Québec, was familiar with the area.
Not agreeing for a new contract was the issue... but Montreal is over it now, kind of.

 

[Sorinth]

I agree with the first 4. The last one too, but half of it.
No team would have signed Radulov more than one year after how it ended up with the Predators.
Bergevin contacted Fedorov to have information on Radulov.
Gave him a 1 year deal. -- Radulov played juniors in Québec, was familiar with the area.
Not agreeing for a new contract was the issue... but Montreal is over it now, kind of.

The rumor was Detroit had a 2 year deal on the table for him when he signed with us.

However let's say a team signed him to a 5 year deal and after year 1 he decides he wants to go back to the KHL. It doesn't screw over his team, he doesn't report to camp, he's suspended and his cap hit doesn't count anymore. The only risk with signing Radulov for longer then 1 year was if he wasn't good enough to be worth the money anymore.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Some of his worst moves were the non-moves such as doing virtually nothing at the deadline in 2016-2017 or not addressing the need for a top-6 player throughout his first 4-5 years.

1) Hiring Therrien
2) Hiring Lefebvre
3) Subban contract negotiations
4) Signing Desharnais to a 4 year deal
5) Letting Radulov walk/not signing him to longer then a 1 year deal in the first place

6) doubling down on MT
7) doubling down on Lefebvre -> even after the guy tried to land a NHL job and could not find any LOL
8) not buying a dog.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Might not have Kotkaniemi either though.

We were lucky to really s**k for a year, it gaves us Kotkaniemi. He's priceless. A future first center to dominate his generation. It's better alone than the loss of Radu and ONE last year (or two) of Markov.
Time to move some past ...to the past time.

 

[Runner77]

We were lucky to really s**k for a year, it gaves us Kotkaniemi. He's priceless. A future first center to dominate his generation. It's better alone than the loss of Radu and ONE last year (or two) of Markov.
Time to move some past ...to the past time.

The loss of Radu has nothing to do with Kotkaniemi. We could have had both.

 

[Habby4Life]

We were lucky to really s**k for a year, it gaves us Kotkaniemi. He's priceless. A future first center to dominate his generation. It's better alone than the loss of Radu and ONE last year (or two) of Markov.
Time to move some past ...to the past time.

I agree, Radu is history. The guy got a fair offer but decided to leave. Time to move on.

 

[Runner77]

Time to move some past ...to the past time.

I hope MB learned from his failed strategy and approach with Radulov. Maybe next time, he'll resort to a more proven negotiating approach.

Next time, maybe.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We were lucky to really s**k for a year, it gaves us Kotkaniemi. He's priceless. A future first center to dominate his generation. It's better alone than the loss of Radu and ONE last year (or two) of Markov.
Time to move some past ...to the past time.

Yes, it was worth it for sure.

But it wasn't intentional. That's the problem. It wasn't part of any kind of planned play. And if you're evaluating your GM and he unintentionally breaks up a good young core and leads them to bottomfeeding seasons that's not the guy you want leading the way forward.

That being said, Andy has it right. This past season was a homerun for him. He should've never had the opportunity to do it but Molson kind of painted himself into a corner with his contract. Hopefully he's learned some lessons and improves further going forward. I have little belief for that but we're stuck with him now no matter what. So as usual, I'll hope for the best and expect the worst. At least he had a good offseason and that's something to be happy about.