Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

[MarkyMarkov]

I wanted to do an exercise to see if it would be possible to sign both Matt Duchene and Jake Gardiner. What I came up with is that, by trading Byron and allowing some of the potential performance bonuses to our ELCs to slide to next year (which we can do since Weise, Peca and Mason will be off the books for a 3 million cap savings), it fits.

Domi (3.2) – Duchene (9) – Gallagher (3.75)
Drouin (5.5) – Kotkaniemi (0.925) – Shaw (3.9)
Lehkonen (1.8) – Danault (3.5) – Suzuki (0.925)
Armia (2) – Poehling (0.925) – Weal (1.4)
Thompson (1) – Deslauriers (0.95)

Gardiner (7) – Weber (7.8)
Kulak (1.75) – Petry (5.5)
Mete (0.75) – Juulsen (0.925)
Folin (0.8)

Price (10.5)
Backup (1.4)

Alzner 3.5, Mason 1.4, Weise 1.3, Peca 0.3
Trade: Byron (3.4) for 2nd round pick
Total: 81.7 million
Cap Space: 1.3 million
Potential Performance Bonus Overage: 3.6 million (Kotkaniemi, Juulsen, Suzuki and Mete)

 

[Runner77]

When Bergevin mentioned that players wives often don't want to come to Montreal(excuse) it was a red flag for me. He was asked if he had permission to spend to the cap and he sort of tap danced around it. He is not going to do anything, he might get Gardiner once he inevitably falls down the ufa ladder but not much else. We are not a contending team, so ask yourself, why would a big name UFA come here? Ignore the lineups that posters make with Panarin, Duchene or Karlsson, they did the same thing with the name Tavares.

That's not as how remember it. Maybe I'll have to go back and listen to it again but it appeared to me that MB was assertive about spending to the cap by the start of next season.

 

[OldCraig71]

That's not as how remember it. Maybe I'll have to go back and listen to it again but it appeared to me that MB was assertive about spending to the cap by the start of next season.

He said that he had permission to do so and I am saying right now that he won't. I am also willing to say that we start the season with pretty much the same roster that we ended it with.

 

[Guns n Roses]

When Bergevin mentioned that players wives often don't want to come to Montreal(excuse) it was a red flag for me. He was asked if he had permission to spend to the cap and he sort of tap danced around it. He is not going to do anything, he might get Gardiner once he inevitably falls down the ufa ladder but not much else. We are not a contending team, so ask yourself, why would a big name UFA come here? Ignore the lineups that posters make with Panarin, Duchene or Karlsson, they did the same thing with the name Tavares.

God dam we are f***ed.. we’re just going to piss away Price, Weber and our young vets.. rinse and repeat.. trades are very hard after all and this isn’t PlayStation.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Apparently, you're wong. Duvernay-Tardif's agent explained, on French radio, a while back, that -- using Radulov's example -- a contract could be structured in a way to make the tax implications in Quebec more advantageous than in Texas, to be precise.

Now, were the Habs willing to structure Radulov's contract that way? Nobody knows what was actually offered with similar salary amounts.

But, apart from a handful of States -- Texas not being one of them -- quebec is not at a taxation disadvantage, not with Superstars, anyhow, since management will structure the deal whatever way convinces the player to sign here.

There may have been concerns about Radulov himself that prevented management from doing this, especially with a contract structure that pays most of the money up front as a signing bonus?

I just think it is important to point out a professional agent's experience in pros sports and the insistence on Montreal being a good destination tax-wise for top UFAs.

Plus, every player pays income tax in the city they worked in. Since half the games are on the road in random cities, the real tax difference is on about half of the salary, the other half almost balances out for every player in the league.

 

[jaffy27]

That's not as how remember it. Maybe I'll have to go back and listen to it again but it appeared to me that MB was assertive about spending to the cap by the start of next season.

He was, he mentioned that sometimes the player wants to come but the wife no.....it was part of many examples on why some players don’t sign here, it wasn’t exclusively that reason and reason alone.

He’s spending to the cap minus a couple of mil this year, we both heard the same thing

 

[jaffy27]

He said that he had permission to do so and I am saying right now that he won't. I am also willing to say that we start the season with pretty much the same roster that we ended it with.

That could happen but it’s very unlikely

 

[Runner77]

He said that he had permission to do so and I am saying right now that he won't. I am also willing to say that we start the season with pretty much the same roster that we ended it with.

I guess that's your hunch and I respect your opinion. However, I don't see how it can possibly be the same roster going into next season. Let's see what he does this summer.

 

[jaffy27]

You write that he was exiled for four years.

In truth, as far as we know, Radulov came back as soon as he wanted to.

He came back as soon as his contract was up, and was actually set to return as he wasn’t getting any bitters on his demands.

He finally settled with Montreal, the rest as they say is history

 

[jaffy27]

I guess that's your hunch and I respect your opinion. However, I don't see how it can possibly be the same roster going into next season. Let's see what he does this summer.

Not doing anything would be setting himself up for relentless criticism.....he didn’t make the playoffs, he’s gotta do SOMETHING, at least one!!!

 

[Miller Time]

That could happen but it’s very unlikely

I just hope that if he does end up spending close to the cap, it's primarily via trade & either nets us quality roster hole upgrades or top prospects/picks (or both).

Last thing we need is more Alzner's or more depth players at UFA prices.

 

[jaffy27]

I just hope that if he does end up spending close to the cap, it's primarily via trade & either nets us quality roster hole upgrades or top prospects/picks (or both).

Last thing we need is more Alzner's or more depth players at UFA prices.

Agree.....I’d like to think the small stuff is pretty much done (except Kulak)and he can now focus on the big boys, time to pull out the big rods and big baits and go after some big fish!!!

I’m not the biggest Duchene fan but what the hell, if you can get em then do it!!

Leafs landed a Big fish and failed, let’s show them Leafs how it’s done and land one of our own.

 

[OldCraig71]

I guess that's your hunch and I respect your opinion. However, I don't see how it can possibly be the same roster going into next season. Let's see what he does this summer.

Bookmark what I wrote so we can come back to it. He is happy with his group of players and he just signed two of his prized acquisitions, maybe he gets one more journeyman or a backup goalie . This is my prediction.

 

[Kriss E]

He was such a sought out player that nobody would even offer him a 2yr deal......sorry, that is not a trademark of a player everyone wanted.

He was an enigmatic player that carried lots of baggage....it’s why he was sent home and was exiled from the nhl for 3-4yrs

We know at the very end it was between Detroit and Montreal, he chose us. We dont know who else were interested before.

 

[Runner77]

Bookmark what I wrote so we can come back to it. He is happy with his group of players and he just signed two of his prized acquisitions, maybe he gets one more journeyman or a backup goalie . This is my prediction.

Well, anyone could be wrong. Predictions are such a fickle thing. Imagining another summer like the last seems implausible as MB did something uncharacteristic. I wish he had that sense of urgency from last summer, in prior years. Really intrigued to find out how he's going to tackle this summer.

 

[Scintillating10]

Euh...okay? Is there an argument in there?
Btw Hamrlik and Cammalleri were pretty
top UFAs at the time.
We didnt sign a superstar off the open market..so? Do you know what we offered any of them?
When did we have a contender team over those years? Why would Tavares sign here when we finished in the bottom of the league and used a sophomore winger as our top line center?
You have no proof of players categorically refusing to sign in mtl.

That's total BS!! Montreal is not a top destination for free agents. Over 25 years we never had one sign here. Why wouldn't a Boston have an advantage with a Chara? How many cup wins does Boston have if Chara signs elsewhere? They got lucky and have an advantage. It is not our GM. You guys want to blame everything on the GM. We have a great GM!

All GMs did the same if stuck around long enough. It is parity in the league and if you can inherit/fluke an advantage.

Look at Ken Holland? Detroit is a terrible team, missed the playoffs 3 straight years. He was voted GM of the decade for 2000s. He won 3 cups and 4 President trophys. Did Holland go from being hockey genius to buffoon over night? Of course not. He inherited an advantage.

All GMs have made bad trades and had terrible drafts.
Scotty Bowman ran Buffalo into the ground. He would be an idiot by your scale. Glen Sather build a dynasty in Edmonton. Rangers are the league doormats. He inherited Gretzky, he had an advantage.

How good would Pittsburgh be last 15 years if they don"t win a lottery and get Crosby? How many Cups do Chicago or LA win if not not terrible team and draft high for 5 years? They got an advantage by being terrible for 10 years and draft high every year. After awhile they have to hit the jackpot

It is not our GM! What are you crapping all over Marc for? We've had 5 or 6 GMs over last 20-25 years. They all done relatively the same. Bergevin got further than most of them actually. They can't be all morons

 

[BLONG7]

That's total BS!! Montreal is not a top destination for free agents. Over 25 years we never had one sign here. Why wouldn't a Boston have an advantage with a Chara? How many cup wins does Boston have if Chara signs elsewhere? They got lucky and have an advantage. It is not our GM. You guys want to blame everything on the GM. We have a great GM!

All GMs did the same if stuck around long enough. It is parity in the league and if you can inherit/fluke an advantage.

Look at Ken Holland? Detroit is a terrible team, missed the playoffs 3 straight years. He was voted GM of the decade for 2000s. He won 3 cups and 4 President trophys. Did Holland go from being hockey genius to buffoon over night? Of course not. He inherited an advantage.

All GMs have made bad trades and had terrible drafts.
Scotty Bowman ran Buffalo into the ground. He would be an idiot by your scale. Glen Sather build a dynasty in Edmonton. Rangers are the league doormats. He inherited Gretzky, he had an advantage.

How good would Pittsburgh be last 15 years if they don"t win a lottery and get Crosby? How many Cups do Chicago or LA win if not not terrible team and draft high for 5 years? They got an advantage by being terrible for 10 years and draft high every year. After awhile they have to hit the jackpot

It is not our GM! What are you crapping all over Marc for? We've had 5 or 6 GMs over last 20-25 years. They all done relatively the same. Bergevin got further than most of them actually. They can't be all morons

The Habs have not been a destination for ufa's since Gainey signed a large group of them one summer.........we have regressed in this area since the Bergevin takeover, to the point where the prize ufa would not even return his calls. We do not have a great GM, unless you like clowns.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

This lineup is pure garbage

It's the line-up that went 7-2-1 in the stretch drive, but also the one that missed the playoffs. It needs to be improved that's for sure. We really don't need $3,4m Byron on the 4th line.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Agree.....I’d like to think the small stuff is pretty much done (except Kulak)and he can now focus on the big boys, time to pull out the big rods and big baits and go after some big fish!!!

I’m not the biggest Duchene fan but what the hell, if you can get em then do it!!

Leafs landed a Big fish and failed, let’s show them Leafs how it’s done and land one of our own.

Duchene is proving he is a playoff performer right now.

 

[DAChampion]

Duchene is proving he is a playoff performer right now.

Some people without life experience think that Duchene is a "low character" player because he bad-mouthed a bad boss behind his back.

But that is what anybody with any modicum of character *would* do.

 

[Kriss E]

That's total BS!! Montreal is not a top destination for free agents. Over 25 years we never had one sign here. Why wouldn't a Boston have an advantage with a Chara? How many cup wins does Boston have if Chara signs elsewhere? They got lucky and have an advantage. It is not our GM. You guys want to blame everything on the GM. We have a great GM!

All GMs did the same if stuck around long enough. It is parity in the league and if you can inherit/fluke an advantage.

Look at Ken Holland? Detroit is a terrible team, missed the playoffs 3 straight years. He was voted GM of the decade for 2000s. He won 3 cups and 4 President trophys. Did Holland go from being hockey genius to buffoon over night? Of course not. He inherited an advantage.

All GMs have made bad trades and had terrible drafts.
Scotty Bowman ran Buffalo into the ground. He would be an idiot by your scale. Glen Sather build a dynasty in Edmonton. Rangers are the league doormats. He inherited Gretzky, he had an advantage.

How good would Pittsburgh be last 15 years if they don"t win a lottery and get Crosby? How many Cups do Chicago or LA win if not not terrible team and draft high for 5 years? They got an advantage by being terrible for 10 years and draft high every year. After awhile they have to hit the jackpot

It is not our GM! What are you crapping all over Marc for? We've had 5 or 6 GMs over last 20-25 years. They all done relatively the same. Bergevin got further than most of them actually. They can't be all morons

I have no idea what you're babbling on about. Honestly, maybe one of the worst posts I've ever read here. I feel dumber for reading it.

First, again, Hamrlik, Cammalleri and Radulov were solid UFAs we signed, so right away, your head is way up your own ass.
Second, take your Pittsburgh and Chicago examples. Pittsburgh needed saving from Mario Lemieux to not go into bankruptcy and as you said, if not for getting Crosby/Malkin/Fleury (all top 1-2 picks) which made them more credible than UFAs wouldn't sign there. Chicago lost local TV coverage at one point during their struggles, and then they drafted top guys, got better and became an interesting destination again.
Most top free agents like to go to good teams. Why wouldn't they?
Nobody is crapping on Bergevin for not signing Tavares or any top UFA. They're crapping on him because he has no f***ing direction. Whether UFAs are interested or not, he says it himself, he isn't big on giving out huge deals to free agents. At the same time, he doesn't want to trade away his good prospects. So...no big UFAs. No trades swapping young kids for proven solid roster players. We also aren't doing a proper tank so not getting the picks to draft a Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Toews, Kane, etc...
We are in this neverending battle between PO bubble and ''good but not good enough'' state.

Bergevin got us futher than previous GMs? How do you figure that mate? We went to the ECF under Gainey as well, and we never missed the POs 3 out of 4 years. Bergevin is a farce. How in the f***ing world do you give a pass to a GM who's made us miss the POs 3 times in the last 4 years? Important to note that in all of these years, his public objective was to make the POs, he failed 3 out of 4 times.
Honestly, what the f*** are you defending him for?

 

[DAChampion]

Ken Holland was GM of the decade in the 2000s.

It is, in fact, possible that he was an outstanding GM in the 2000s and is a mediocre one now. It is common for people who are incredible at their jobs to be less effective a decade later. That happens a lot. In part, the NHL has changed, and in part, Holland is himself a different person than he once was. People are constantly changing, within the unbrella of their potential.

But it may also be that Holland is still good and that the current problems in Detroit are just part of cycling. A bad team does not mean that the GM is terrible if the rebuild is planned.

Note that Bergevin himself has limited potential for change. He cannot get much better, as he just isn't very intelligent, which eliminates his capacity for growth.

 

[CHwest]

That's total BS!! Montreal is not a top destination for free agents. Over 25 years we never had one sign here. Why wouldn't a Boston have an advantage with a Chara? How many cup wins does Boston have if Chara signs elsewhere? They got lucky and have an advantage. It is not our GM. You guys want to blame everything on the GM. We have a great GM!

All GMs did the same if stuck around long enough. It is parity in the league and if you can inherit/fluke an advantage.

Look at Ken Holland? Detroit is a terrible team, missed the playoffs 3 straight years. He was voted GM of the decade for 2000s. He won 3 cups and 4 President trophys. Did Holland go from being hockey genius to buffoon over night? Of course not. He inherited an advantage.

All GMs have made bad trades and had terrible drafts.
Scotty Bowman ran Buffalo into the ground. He would be an idiot by your scale. Glen Sather build a dynasty in Edmonton. Rangers are the league doormats. He inherited Gretzky, he had an advantage.

How good would Pittsburgh be last 15 years if they don"t win a lottery and get Crosby? How many Cups do Chicago or LA win if not not terrible team and draft high for 5 years? They got an advantage by being terrible for 10 years and draft high every year. After awhile they have to hit the jackpot

It is not our GM! What are you crapping all over Marc for? We've had 5 or 6 GMs over last 20-25 years. They all done relatively the same. Bergevin got further than most of them actually. They can't be all morons

You have a pretty low standard for a GM if you believe we have a great one. Making the playoffs must be what you aspire to. He never made that either. Lol

 

[Guns n Roses]

Some people without life experience think that Duchene is a "low character" player because he bad-mouthed a bad boss behind his back.

But that is what anybody with any modicum of character *would* do.

Some people are very confused about Karakter around here. Duchene = our best player. Not sure why some people don’t want to add our best player.. without giving up any assets..

 

[groovejuice]

Well, anyone could be wrong. Predictions are such a fickle thing. Imagining another summer like the last seems implausible as MB did something uncharacteristic. I wish he had that sense of urgency from last summer, in prior years. Really intrigued to find out how he's going to tackle this summer.

Count on at least one player from these groups: bloodlines, retreads, coming off a well below average season.

He's one leotard who can't change his socks.