Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

[DAChampion]

To me, he's got next season to show an improvement or I'm writing him off.

People say that about Bergevin every year.

 

[OnTheRun]

Yeah, but he's trending upwards at this point. I mean, it's just not realistic at all to expect him to randomly lose his job like that.

Context maybe?

The only reason you can perceive an "upward" trend is because he, himself, cratered the team in the previous 3 years. And it wasn't on purpose, just so we are clear about that.

The situation this year was perfect for Marc, he was able to do what he does best: riding the fence. At no given point this season Bergevin had to commit to anything, the team was on the bubble so he didn't have to commit to improve it and didn't have to commit to blow it up. He was a fish in the water with his "We'll see" approach.
It won't be "acceptable" for him to do that again next year, and when Marc have to take decisions, this is usually when the shit hit the fan.

 

[ahmedou]

Yeah, but he's trending upwards at this point. I mean, it's just not realistic at all to expect him to randomly lose his job like that.

I heard that every year.

 

[DAChampion]

Context maybe?

The only reason you can perceive an "upward" trend is because he, himself, cratered the team in the previous 3 years. And it wasn't on purpose, just so we are clear about that.

The situation this year was perfect for Marc, he was able to do what he does best: riding the fence. At no given point this season Bergevin had to commit to anything, the team was on the bubble so he didn't have to commit to improve it and didn't have to commit to blow it up. He was a fish in the water with his "We'll see" approach.
It won't be "acceptable" for him to do that again next year, and when Marc have to take decisions, this is usually when the **** hit the fan.

Bergevin actually had a glorious opportunity this year to behave like a great GM.

A lot of players like Tatar, Petry, Drouin, etc were having career seasons. He could have gotten good value by trading them at the deadline. These players are likely to never be worth as much as they were in March.

The Habs would have then declined further, and maybe drafted top 7 or 8, with additional first rounders to boot. They would then be in a position to draft Lafreniere next year, and then to start competing.

 

[holy]

People say that about Bergevin every year.

No one was saying that last year this time, are you crazy? Maybe like 1 guy, lmao. You can still buy Fire Bergevin t-shirts to relive that era.

 

[groovejuice]

People say that about Bergevin every year.

Often it's the very same people as the previous year. Live and let live.

 

[holy]

Context maybe?

The only reason you can perceive an "upward" trend is because he, himself, cratered the team in the previous 3 years. And it wasn't on purpose, just so we are clear about that.

The situation this year was perfect for Marc, he was able to do what he does best: riding the fence. At no given point this season Bergevin had to commit to anything, the team was on the bubble so he didn't have to commit to improve it and didn't have to commit to blow it up. He was a fish in the water with his "We'll see" approach.
It won't be "acceptable" for him to do that again next year, and when Marc have to take decisions, this is usually when the **** hit the fan.

Yeah, I agree with you, but I'm just saying it's obvious he passed the window to get fired in. Whether or not it was all his fault earlier, it's just not gonna happen now. All we can do is sit back and see if he either goes back into boob mode or maybe, just maybe, manages to redeem himself a little bit more.

I think I just really like the players on the team for the first time in a long time, so maybe that's it. Even Drouin's case isn't so bad, he's like a dog with 2 broken legs right now. Maybe I'm just a weirdo.

 

[Lshap]

I will always have a tough time with those evaluations. It's not because he is GREAT today...that he finally was great before. He wasn't. He added his points...but was coasting. Was not playing a good 2-way game. Was clearly not interested in becoming an initiator, not that type of player, but now he is mixed with top guns that make him play more relax. Complete different environment. But he was not doing the job we were expecting with us. He wasn't good in the playoffs. Today, this year, he is. Let say next year he isn't....can we go back with him not being a warrior. How come 1 year erase 4 years? He wasn't for us back then, he is for them this year. His career at the end will dictate what kind of warrior he was.

Nobody's talking about erasing the past, I'm simply saying the past doesn't always get copy-pasted into the future. Place the same person in different circumstances and you often get different results. I have no regrets about trading Pacioretty. He didn't fit here anymore. But you have to appreciate the humour in a guy labelled a playoff choker being the 2nd leading scorer in his first season elsewhere. Obviously Stone is a huge part of Max's success, as is facing terrible goaltending, but irony is irony...

 

[OnTheRun]

Bergevin actually had a glorious opportunity this year to behave like a great GM.

A lot of players like Tatar, Petry, Drouin, etc were having career seasons. He could have gotten good value by trading them at the deadline. These players are likely to never be worth as much as they were in March.

The Habs would have then declined further, and maybe drafted top 7 or 8, with additional first rounders to boot. They would then be in a position to draft Lafreniere next year, and then to start competing.

Well yeah, he had 7 years worth of opportunities to behave like a great GM... He isn't one.

But what I meant is in the NHL world it is considered acceptable to do nothing if your team is on the fringe (personally I think it's a moronic approach). The media and a lot of people within the fanbase were fine with what Bergevin did in the last two months leading to the trade deadline and the justification was the team position and expectations. He won't have that as a safety net next year.

 

[teamfirst]

I've demonstrated to you that statswise, it's not the norm. So you can still think that way. But the stats do not show that at all. It's not the norm. So in the end, I'm not saying that Bergevin told you that so you had to agree. Whether you think that before or after is irrelevant. You still agree with him. Or he agrees with you, choose. But again in the end, statswise, it's wrong. And whatever teams are doing in this very 1st round is incredibly irrelevant. I have no idea how going to the 2nd round is equal to winning a Cup or making the Finals....

In the end, you will see it the way you want. Same for me. If Columbus wins or goes to the Finals, you'll say that Bergevin was right. I'll say that Bergevin was then wrong for not shipping a few youngsters to go the Cup. And that the Columbus that entered the playoffs are in NO WAY related to the fact that they almost didn't make the playoffs.

You demonstrated nothing that i didnt already knew, to me it's so obvious that the best teams has the best chances to win it all , i did not think that i had to mention it while sayin that anything can happen......anyway like i said you guy's are hilarious at the way you pile on posters that says something that may look just a tiny tiny bit like a positive towards MB, does not make you guy's look more right, to me at least it's quite the opposite

 

[Whitesnake]

Nobody's talking about erasing the past, I'm simply saying the past doesn't always get copy-pasted into the future. Place the same person in different circumstances and you often get different results. I have no regrets about trading Pacioretty. He didn't fit here anymore. But you have to appreciate the humour in a guy labelled a playoff choker being the 2nd leading scorer in his first season elsewhere. Obviously Stone is a huge part of Max's success, as is facing terrible goaltending, but irony is irony...

Well if we can't erase the past, we can't predict the future either. And what he was in the past, we were saying it in the past. Now...maybe he evolves. My point is that we only can talk about what we're seeing.

 

[Whitesnake]

You demonstrated nothing that i didnt already knew, to me it's so obvious that the best teams has the best chances to win it all , i did not think that i had to mention it while sayin that anything can happen......anyway like i said you guy's are hilarious at the way you pile on posters that says something that may look just a tiny tiny bit like a positive towards MB, does not make you guy's look more right, to me at least it's quite the opposite

Just like it's totally funny to be told that anything can happen. Hey, did you know that if you make the playoffs, you have a chance to win. No shit. And what I think is funnier is for people RIGHT NOW to want to say anything positive about MB or to say that MB may be right....right after not making the playoffs 3 years out of 4. If I'd be those people, I'd take a slight break. Funny to hear how right he is....while he's on his couch doing the exact same thing we are doing....

 

[teamfirst]

If you don't do the assets management moves you should be doing because anything is possible

I agree with you on that......altho what you think is a good assets management move could be a bad assets management in other people eyes .....so when you say habs did poor assets management decisions it's not a fact but your opinion, that,s why we call ourself ''gerant d'estrade''

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lol okay - Stone is a winger by the way. It's obvious Galchenyuk wasn't the player capable of helping Pacioretty, since he wasn't as a winger either.

And Stastny is a center.

Stop making excuses. It's tiring.

I'd be on board with your previous analysis of the team's makeup when Bergevin entered his tenure if A). we had good prospects to help the team or serve as a assets to trade and B). Galchenyuk was more than a mercurial second line talent

I don't care if you're on board or not. You are acting as an apologist here. There's no way to sit there and say that MB didn't walk into a great situation. He inherited half a dozen players good young players under the age of 25, four of whom were either first line talents or HOF talents. It's ridiculous to try to defend this.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hindsight is required for everything bro. The only way i'll know by Monday that you did not have a date with Jennifer Connelly tonight after the game is hindsight.

It wasn't required for this. Feel free to go back to those old threads.

 

[LaP]

I agree with you on that......altho what you think is a good assets management move could be a bad assets management in other people eyes .....so when you say habs did poor assets management decisions it's not a fact but your opinion, that,s why we call ourself ''gerant d'estrade''

Of course. But really there's times where some people acknowledge that some moves are bad for the mid to long term but they still support them because we must (barely) make the playoffs. I'll use an example in the past that has nothing to do with MB because it's simply the best example of that but when Gainey decided to let Kovalev, Koivu, Tanguay, alouette go for nothing (while giving a 2nd and 3rd round picks for almost retired Schneider) despite us having a not so good team a lot of people supported him despite at the same time acknowledging it was more than likely not the right thing to do.

Personally i think we should have sold Petry and not extended Byron and sold him. For now it's an opinion but the next couple of years will reveal if i was right or wrong.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Pacioretty's game seemed to tail off after he was voted captain. Before then he had a few seasons of some pretty heavy scoring. But yeah, no question we desperately needed power up the middle. Not just for Pacioretty, but for the whole damn team.

Him being named captain was also a huge mistake.

You didn't like Therrien? You should've said something earlier.

I only disliked him in hindsight.

 

[teamfirst]

Just like it's totally funny to be told that anything can happen. Hey, did you know that if you make the playoffs, you have a chance to win. No ****. And what I think is funnier is for people RIGHT NOW to want to say anything positive about MB or to say that MB may be right....right after not making the playoffs 3 years out of 4. If I'd be those people, I'd take a slight break. Funny to hear how right he is....while he's on his couch doing the exact same thing we are doing....

Goes to say......tous les gout sont dans la nature.....or to each their own i guess, i still respect your opinion alot, but not always the way you bring it but thats my problem not yours

 

[DAChampion]

Bergevin inherited 25 year old Price.

His successor will inherit 35 year old Price.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bergevin inherited 25 year old Price.

His successor will inherit 35 year old Price.

Even if you want to argue that he walked into a mediocre situation (which is far from true) the man did nothing to improve on it. His most significant move in seven years was adding Jeff Petry. It's mind boggling.

 

[ahmedou]

Bergevin inherited 25 year old Price.

His successor will inherit 35 year old Price.

Poor the next GM...

 

[teamfirst]

Bergevin inherited 25 year old Price.

His successor will inherit 35 year old Price.

Ya but he will also have Primeau at 24, and KK at 22

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Analytics are a better predictor of success than the standings are.

That being said, you still need talent. We've seen teams with good analytics not go anywhere because they don't have finishers or their goaltending is mediocre. The Kings though weren't an upset from an analytics standpoint.

Goals are a better predictor than analytics. especially when ppl who call it analytics simply mean shots

 

[DAChampion]

Ya but he will also have Primeau at 24, and KK at 22

Plan the parade.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

I would call that close to paranoia, you have a clear exemple of that........me........., you tought all the way that i was doing that to say MB was right while in fact i really do think that in the playoffs anything can happen and i've been thinking that way way before MB became the GM

Its ok to believe in that as a fan, especially when the team you cheer for is garbage. Its another thing when thats the plan your head executive is openly promoting.

Is it the way Molson hires staff for his business too ? “look Geoff, we’ll produce beer that tastes like vomit, but once the bottle is on the shelf, anything can happen. At the end of the day, some people might buy it !”