Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

[417]

Finding excuses like “big skilled guys aren't really available” is the reason he gives for not addressing it. They're linked.
I dont want to hear that, I want to hear him say they will address it. The whole point of needing a French speaking GM/Coach is so they can address the public. If we're going to say who cares then dont hire bilingual candidates. If they're going on the radio then might as well show you have a good understanding of issues at hand and a need to address them.

Even speaking into existence doesn't make it more likely and if anything, probably sets an expectation that's easily exploitable.

Again...I don't think we disagree.

I just don't wanna hear lip service.

Go out and do it

 

[26Mats]

Kovy ain't coming back buddy. That shit has sailed.
Bergevin doesn't like to commit everything. He remains the vaguest possible so nobody can come back to say “hey you said you were gonna do that but didnt”.
Hes a p***y.

lighten up.

Something will happen over the next few weeks. We'll see what it is when it happens. In the meantime, lighten up a little...

 

[26Mats]

Montreal Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin: Max Domi got away from his strengths this season - TSN.ca

Bergevin said that Domi got away from his game this season and is still drinking the Drouin kool-aid.

Translation: there's no market for either player, so I'm going to pump their tires, and give them another chance, to try to create one.

 

[Kriss E]

lighten up.

Something will happen over the next few weeks. We'll see what it is when it happens. In the meantime, lighten up a little...

We are going back in confinement, its cold and rainy...Give me my grumpy day.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Translation: there's no market for either player, so I'm going to pump their tires, and give them another chance, to try to create one.

I highly doubt that there's no market for Domi, but I still think he's pumping his tires. Unless he's in a completely unfavourable position, Domi will rebound. If its for the right deal, it'll be somewhere else. If it isn't, then he can still rebound in Montreal.

Drouin... I honestly think he's a hill that Bergevin is willing to die on. He just believes in Drouin, absent any sustainable NHL evidence in his 349 games.

 

[Kriss E]

Even speaking into existence doesn't make it more likely and if anything, probably sets an expectation that's easily exploitable.

Again...I don't think we disagree.

I just don't wanna hear lip service.

Go out and do it

Yes but then we could hold him accountable to his words.
When all he does is spew out excuses and vagueness, then he can always use that as to why no improvement is happening. It's a method he's used since early on and obviously it's worked, allowing to slide without doing much for way too long.

 

[26Mats]

I highly doubt that there's no market for Domi, but I still think he's pumping his tires. Unless he's in a completely unfavourable position, Domi will rebound. If its for the right deal, it'll be somewhere else. If it isn't, then he can still rebound in Montreal.

Drouin... I honestly think he's a hill that Bergevin is willing to die on. He just believes in Drouin, absent any sustainable NHL evidence in his 349 games.

There's a market for Domi, but I don't think a good one. imo, if there was a good deal out there, Domi would have already been traded.

Whereas in Drouin's case there pretty close to literally is no market, in my best guess. The guy is horrendous for long stretches. he can't complete or receive a pass in the neutral zone when he's not even being pressured.

I think Domi could possibly rebound to be a 60-70 point center. But he has to play center with good wingers, not Lehkonen and Byron. I only see him getting that chance here if there's an injury to KK, Suzuki or Danault.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Its a goalie on a one year deal.. what happens next year, when the goalie market doesn't project to be as flushed as this one.. we decide that Price doesn't need rest?

You could potentially re-sign him at a cheaper price. Allen signed that contract while he was winning 30+ games with a good SV% as a full-time starter. If he bolts, goalies can be found for relatively cheap.

 

[Captain Mountain]

There's a market for Domi, but I don't think a good one. imo, if there was a good deal out there, Domi would have already been traded.

Whereas in Drouin's case there pretty close to literally is no market, in my best guess. The guy is horrendous for long stretches. he can't complete or receive a pass in the neutral zone when he's not even being pressured.

I think Domi could possibly rebound to be a 60-70 point center. But he has to play center with good wingers, not Lehkonen and Byron. I only see him getting that chance here if there's an injury to KK, Suzuki or Danault.

I disagree. There are 0 top-6 centers in UFA and almost no top-9 centers. Very few teams have centers available for trade. Domi can rebound to a 60ish point center winger if Montreal had one more PP weapon. In his 72 point season his most common ES wingers were Drouin, Lehkonen and Shaw. Byron is generally close to as strong an ES scorer as Shaw and is better defensively, he just needs to stay healthy. I'm not at all concerned about Domi rebounding if Montreal can fix the PP.

Drouin probably has some value based on his pedigree and point production alone. Its just probably not close to how Bergevin personally values him.

 

[LaP]

Just today, when speaking about the difference between the flyers and us in the series, he immediately spoke to the "lack of experience of our key players"... WTF? Outside of JKO & Suzuki, who were surprise contributors vs expected "key players", the bulk of our core are very much vets and more experienced than most of the key guys on the flyers... Price... Weber... Gally... Tatar... Petry... even Danault, Chiarot, Armia, Byron, while not playoff experienced, are certainly not "inexperienced".

Did he really said that? The Flyers top 4 at D is young and inexperienced. Provorov is 23. Sanheim was 23 last season. Myers is 22. They had Niskanen as vet in their top 4 in playoffs and that was pretty much it. The have an experienced offense but their defense is green when it comes to the playoffs.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't think anyone can tell with certainty how Bergevin values Drouin at this point. He's still on the team and they gave up a huge piece for him. There's really no other acceptable answer that he can give at this point. Bashing him would serve nothing.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You could potentially re-sign him at a cheaper price. Allen signed that contract while he was winning 30+ games with a good SV% as a full-time starter. If he bolts, goalies can be found for relatively cheap.

I can guarantee you that hes gonna look for a starters or platoon situation as soon as he hits UFA. Dont think hes gonna relegate himself to being a back up yet in his career and yes, goalies can be found cheap but isnt that the problem he was supposedly rectifying in Allen? Getting an option that's more reliable than bargain diving for Kinkaid and Niemi?

 

[26Mats]

I disagree. There are 0 top-6 centers in UFA and almost no top-9 centers. Very few teams have centers available for trade. Domi can rebound to a 60ish point center winger if Montreal had one more PP weapon. In his 72 point season his most common ES wingers were Drouin, Lehkonen and Shaw. Byron is generally close to as strong an ES scorer as Shaw and is better defensively, he just needs to stay healthy. I'm not at all concerned about Domi rebounding if Montreal can fix the PP.

Drouin probably has some value based on his pedigree and point production alone. Its just probably not close to how Bergevin personally values him.

Even when Byron was healthy, Drouin-Domi-Shaw worked, Drouin-Domi-Byron didn't, and never has when they go back to it. Byron is just too small and weak on the puck in the offensive zone to make that line work. But Byron was probably even then overall close to being on Shaw's level. He probably could do better than Shaw in many other roles. But playing with Domi isn't one of them - unless there's a real stud on the other wing, not Drouin.

Domi might emerge as a highly sought after top 6 winger once other dominos have fallen in a few weeks. But I get the impression he isn't highly sought after now. Hence MB pumping his tires. If he comes out and says I'm done with Domi, that only weakens his bargaining power. If he says Domi can bounce back in MTL, that means MB can legitimately walk away from low offers and tell GM's he'd rather just keep Domi if you can't put forth a better offer.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

There are certain things he can admit.
Like the size issue, he can say that its a problem they want to rectify, not talk like a loser saying how big skilled guys aren't available...blablabla. Its a constant excuse/defeatist attitude that Bergey displays.
Thats why fans get annoyed and upset.
Nobody is upset because he didn't mention his draft targets or commit to saying by Nov 1st, we will have a big skilled winger.

If you can't get a big skilled winger in the FA market then go after a mid sized skilled winger like Dadonov. No point adding Allen and Edmundson unless you get some wingers. I would not trade KK or Suzuki but I would move Romanov in a package for Laine.

 

[smirob]

Honestly, there is no reason to move Drouin now. We would be selling low on him and his contract is pretty digestible over the next 3 years.

IF we need to include a good winger in a package - I would include Tatar.
A) his value is probably higher, and
B) I don't see us resigning him after this season

 

[26Mats]

I don't think anyone can tell with certainty how Bergevin values Drouin at this point. He's still on the team and they gave up a huge piece for him. There's really no other acceptable answer that he can give at this point. Bashing him would serve nothing.

This.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Even when Byron was healthy, Drouin-Domi-Shaw worked, Drouin-Domi-Byron didn't, and never has when they go back to it. Byron is just too small and weak on the puck in the offensive zone to make that line work. But Byron was probably even then overall close to being on Shaw's level. He probably could do better than Shaw in many other roles. But playing with Domi isn't one of them - unless there's a real stud on the other wing, not Drouin.

Domi might emerge as a highly sought after top 6 winger once other dominos have fallen in a few weeks. But I get the impression he isn't highly sought after now. Hence MB pumping his tires. If he comes out and says I'm done with Domi, that only weakens his bargaining power. If he says Domi can bounce back in MTL, that means MB can legitimately walk away from low offers and tell GM's he'd rather just keep Domi if you can't put forth a better offer.

All of that has everything to do with Drouin. He's a massive drag at ES and pretty much always has been. He got hot at one point with Domi and Shaw, but he's the drag. Domi and Byron as a line actually scored at a pretty decent clip. Not as good as Shaw, but not all that far off (and Shaw's performance was in no way sustainable).

As to the bolded, it doesn't have to be gamesmanship. Its true.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I can guarantee you that hes gonna look for a starters or platoon situation as soon as he hits UFA. Dont think hes gonna relegate himself to being a back up yet in his career and yes, goalies can be found cheap but isnt that the problem he was supposedly rectifying in Allen? Getting an option that's more reliable than bargain diving for Kinkaid and Niemi?

When I mean cheap, I don't mean extremely cheap and useless like Niemi and Kincaid. It could involve giving up an asset for a quality guy but it wouldn't be overpriced. As for Allen, who knows? Wouldn't a Halak position essentially be platooning? No one will start him for 60 games and no one will give him starter money unless he has an insane year in Montreal, IMO.

 

[WeThreeKings]

When I mean cheap, I don't mean extremely cheap and useless like Niemi and Kincaid. It could involve giving up an asset for a quality guy but it wouldn't be overpriced. As for Allen, who knows? Wouldn't a Halak position essentially be platooning? No one will start him for 60 games and no one will give him starter money unless he has an insane year in Montreal, IMO.

Speaking as a goalie and for a guy his age.. he's never gonna win a starter job against Carey Price. He is gonna go to a situation like in NYI where they had Greiss and Varlarmov, because he will have an opportunity to win starts and become their play-off starter in that environment.

I would be beyond surprised to see Allan do anything but test the market and look for an opportunity where he can win a starters job. It isn't happening in Montreal and he knows that.

 

[26Mats]

All of that has everything to do with Drouin. He's a massive drag at ES and pretty much always has been. He got hot at one point with Domi and Shaw, but he's the drag. Domi and Byron as a line actually scored at a pretty decent clip. Not as good as Shaw, but not all that far off (and Shaw's performance was in no way sustainable).

As to the bolded, it doesn't have to be gamesmanship. Its true.

I could see Domi bouncing back in MTL. But I don't think this coach gives him many opportunities to. CJ said at the end of the year, he's excited for next year with KK, Suzuki, and Danault down the middle. He didn't mention Domi. MB hadn't even come up with an explanation yet at his end of season presser. when asked why Domi dropped off in points so much, he said ask Max. I don't know. It wasn't even on his mind or a priority.

 

[salbutera]

Just today, when speaking about the difference between the flyers and us in the series, he immediately spoke to the "lack of experience of our key players"... WTF? Outside of JKO & Suzuki, who were surprise contributors vs expected "key players", the bulk of our core are very much vets and more experienced than most of the key guys on the flyers... Price... Weber... Gally... Tatar... Petry... even Danault, Chiarot, Armia, Byron, while not playoff experienced, are certainly not "inexperienced".

A bit of cherry picking....MB also clearly said in that same sentence “players who we expect to perform did not perform”.

 

[26Mats]

We are going back in confinement, its cold and rainy...Give me my grumpy day.

Well, here's something to look forward to. We have a borderline lottery pick (#16OA), and three 2nds.

Timmins has been pretty good in the lottery and good at drafting D in the 2nd round. If he's going to draft for need, let's hope he takes a couple RD with those first 4 picks. Hopefully he hits on the #16OA. I'm expecting him to draft busts/offensively challenged player when he tries to use 2nds on forwards though...

 

[417]

Yes but then we could hold him accountable to his words.
When all he does is spew out excuses and vagueness, then he can always use that as to why no improvement is happening. It's a method he's used since early on and obviously it's worked, allowing to slide without doing much for way too long.

We can hold him accountable?

He's held accountable here every 2 mins. It changes nothing.

Truth is, we are not the ones he's accountable too, bed accountable to his boss and his team.

What he does and says privately carries way more weight IMO.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I could see Domi bouncing back in MTL. But I don't think this coach gives him many opportunities to. CJ said at the end of the year, he's excited for next year with KK, Suzuki, and Danault down the middle. He didn't mention Domi. MB hadn't even come up with an explanation yet at his end of season presser. when asked why Domi dropped off in points so much, he said ask Max. I don't know. It wasn't even on his mind or a priority.

I'm not all that concerned about it. Domi's better at center, but that doesn't mean he can't be very effective on the wing. And lets be realistic, between injuries and slumps and whims, there's no reason to think Domi wouldn't get a look at center.

 

[26Mats]

I'm not all that concerned about it. Domi's better at center, but that doesn't mean he can't be very effective on the wing. And lets be realistic, between injuries and slumps and whims, there's no reason to think Domi wouldn't get a look at center.

There very well may be an injury to kk, Suzuki or Danault. But whether Domi gets good linemates if/when there is is still a concern for me.

I don't see him bouncing back on the wing. His game is based on generating speed from the center position. And, I don't think Julien does enough trying out line combinations to find him a place that will work for him on the wing.