Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

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26Mats

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And that's why we'll never get any better than pretty good.

I don't think Laine makes us elite. I think Suzuki, and KK can.

Without knowing enough about Romanov, I'd probably be ready to give him up in a package to get an elite COMPLIMENTARY player like Laine. But only because Timmins is so good at drafting dmen (and so bad at drafting scoring wingers) that I have more faith in him replacing Romanov than drafting a goal scoring COMPLEMENTARY winger.
 

LaP

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He didn't throw anyone under the bus. But when he was asked since there is no cap on hockey ops, why don't they go for the best scouts (like the one in Tampa). MB said those scouts all have jobs.

Centers are not available. This is not the PlayStation. If you want loyalty get a dog. And now good scouts all have a job for the rest of eternity ...
 

Deebs

There's no easy way out
Feb 5, 2014
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I don't think Laine makes us elite. I think Suzuki, and KK can.

Without knowing enough about Romanov, I'd probably be ready to give him up in a package to get an elite COMPLIMENTARY player like Laine. But only because Timmins is so good at drafting dmen (and so bad at drafting scoring wingers) that I have more faith in him replacing Romanov than drafting a goal scoring COMPLEMENTARY winger.
Suzy and KK won't make us elite either unless they have legitimate players rolling with them. It takes a team and now we potentially have the Centers, just need to help them out
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
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Not spending on a high-profile player (it doesn't have to be Hall) because you're saving your money for your kids who really haven't shown that much yet is incredibly f***ing stupid. You don't short yourselves on top players because of what might happen and then have no problem with giving non-top guys contracts that are at FA value. Bergevin is a dumbass.
 
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Adam Michaels

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Centers are not available. This is not the PlayStation. If you want loyalty get a dog. And now good scouts all have a job for the rest of eternity ...

I wouldn't put the "scouts all have jobs" up there with the other comments. The other ones are timeless.
 

sampollock

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Tony's interview with MB is whatever,
He can say whatever he wants, but the doing part is the tricky part.

so he let's us all think he is making a package to snag a sniper, when that does not happen, the only ones that know for sure are the other GM's in the NHL, as to if he really did or not. We have no proof, nor can we get any.
 
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26Mats

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Suzy and KK won't make us elite either unless they have legitimate players rolling with them. It takes a team and now we potentially have the Centers, just need to help them out
I agree.

I'm personally more focused on trying to win with a future core including KK and Suzuki - and hopefully Romanov and Caufield - rather than the current aging Weber, Petry, and Price core. That's why I'm really hoping we can draft a #1 D to replace Weber and a #1 goalie to replace Price. -I think all the D prospects we've drafted since 2015 will be able to fill out a dcore. We just may need that #1D, if Romanov isn't a #1. And I like Primeau, but I'd still like to have another candidate to take over for Price.
 

Kriss E

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Agreed 100%

And when you juxtapose this against Toni Marinaro's line of questioning.

It makes getting upset at anything said by Bergevin all the more perplexing.
There are certain things he can admit.
Like the size issue, he can say that its a problem they want to rectify, not talk like a loser saying how big skilled guys aren't available...blablabla. Its a constant excuse/defeatist attitude that Bergey displays.
Thats why fans get annoyed and upset.
Nobody is upset because he didn't mention his draft targets or commit to saying by Nov 1st, we will have a big skilled winger.
 
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DAChampion

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Bergevin has two jobs, one as a politician, and the other as a policy maker.

As a politician I grade him an A-. He's mostly outstanding. For the most part people are usually happy with what he says and what he does. It's also good that his office is a tight one without a million leaks.
 

sampollock

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Bergevin has two jobs, one as a politician, and the other as a policy maker.

As a politician I grade him an A-. He's mostly outstanding. For the most part people are usually happy with what he says and what he does. It's also good that his office is a tight one without a million leaks.[/QUOTE

and he loves fashion
 
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LaP

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Suzy and KK won't make us elite either unless they have legitimate players rolling with them. It takes a team and now we potentially have the Centers, just need to help them out

The playoffs should be a good indication of what's to come. Pace in playoffs over 82 games :

Suzuki 33 goals and 57 points
Kotkaniemi 33 goals and 33 points

Can they do better? Yes in term of points I definitely think their ceiling is high than that. Can they do it next season with average wingers? Unlikely imo i'll take another 1 or 2 years of experience before than can improve upon that over a full season.

Despite both Suzuki and JK playing well in playoffs it was not enough. The hidden card next season could be Romanov. But it would be very surprising if he can help in the top 4 next season. Will probably take 2 or 3 years of experience.

If we add nothing more than Allen and Edmundson it'll be very hard to make the playoffs with the usual non COVID format.
 
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Miller Time

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Sure...I get that.

But as presently constructed, the Habs aren't going to turn into Stanley Cup contenders over night.

But does that mean they shouldn't try to compete to make the playoffs? And if they do, does that mean that making the playoffs is just enough?

The team isn't at maturity right now, it doesn't mean they should aim to win the lottery either.

Personally... I'd say that every team, every season, from the coaching staff down, should be focused on making the playoffs and if they succeed, on trying to win a cup.

That focus should not be the GM's priority. The GM needs to be focused on "winning the war", not on "winning the battle". It's the difference between tactics and strategy...
Coach/Players - focus on and execute tactics, with winning in the moment the priority.
GM/Hockey Ops - focus on the executing the strategy necessary to build a cup contender

This GM has confused the two since day one, and frankly, his ongoing public commentary and the bulk of his actions point to a lack of stategic roster/asset management.

Just today, when speaking about the difference between the flyers and us in the series, he immediately spoke to the "lack of experience of our key players"... WTF? Outside of JKO & Suzuki, who were surprise contributors vs expected "key players", the bulk of our core are very much vets and more experienced than most of the key guys on the flyers... Price... Weber... Gally... Tatar... Petry... even Danault, Chiarot, Armia, Byron, while not playoff experienced, are certainly not "inexperienced".

what that comment highlighted, is that MB doesn't really have a clear plan and assessment of his roster, he literally makes it up as he goes, updating it from season to season, from month to month... that's the coach lens, not the GM lens, and that distinction is what is problematic.

Again, yes... I agree.

But there's steps that lead into a team being a perennial Stanley Cup contender. The Habs aren't there yet, I think anyone, even the GM would acknowledge that.

But in the interim, I don't see what's wrong with wanting to make the playoffs and setting that as a baseline goal. When and hopefully, the team reaches another level of maturity, you re-adjust your goals accordingly.

Marc Bergevin isn't in a position to state anything else other then making the playoffs as the teams goal.

That's just where this organization is at right now.

The habs won't be there so long as the GM isn't capable of building and executing on a plan to get there...

Again, "wanting to make the playoffs" is fine. It's just not at all the same mindset or approach as "wanting to build a contender".

i don't buy that a GM can't state that the priority is something other than making the Playoffs... We are watching in real time as a franchise is reaping the unbelievable benefits of a GM that clearly stated a vision and plan to build a contender... The rangers publicly owned their intent a few seasons ago, and the net result has been a team that has continued to "try & want" to make the playoffs, but a management group that has strategically focused on building towards a contender by leveraging assets to that end...

Yes, they've got lucky along the way & yes, they have also leveraged the benefits of their marketplace and ownership ability to spend, but MB/Habs have done the exact opposite and as result, even when we were getting extremmely lucky (as we did in his first 3 years, where the team led the league by a wide margin in player healt/man-games not lost to injury), the best we could manage was being a mediocre playoff team with no real shot at winning unless absolutely everything went our way.


The organization, right now (or at least, before we dropped 8M on luxury but unneeded depth) was, imo, very well positioned to aggressively target the 2-3 assets needed to push this group into the cup contention territory... it would've rested on JKO/Suzuki continuing to improve, but our roster depth, goaltending, and mix of ELC & expiring UFA/RFA deals for vets giving more bang for the buck than present day market would value their services (Tatar, Gally, Petry, Domi, Danault) was a perfect setting for a competent GM to go "all-in" and add the top-6 & top-4 pieces needed to put this team into contender status next year.... and with the expiring contracts and prospect depth we have, we could have then pivoted next summer to either re-tool, or ride a 1-2 year wave until the promising group of young players we have brought us back up.

Instead... we took yet another middling approach... one that all but ensures another season of hoping to make the playoffs, and then next summer we're back at square one, either with those UFA vets (who aren't enough as is) carving up that cap space, or losing them and still stuck hoping young players progress fast enough to keep us in the borderline playoff team mix.

You can't build success by aiming for the middle, yet that's the approach MB is anchored on.
 

Spring in Fialta

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Lower your expectations when it comes to anything he says man lol

I think what's usually said has been pretty revealing. He doesn't speak like a politician and and makes his intentions fairly clear. He's just dumb as hell and his intentions tend to be middle of the road strategy, which is how he executes his moves, and often fails. I trust what he says. And I think it's dumb as hell.
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
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Ultimately, he usually fails on whatever he tries to accomplish.. although we have seen the consequences of some of his buying moves in the past -
Alzner contract.
Drouin trade.
Shaw trade.

It's such a stark contrast to when he's forced to sell -
Pacioretty trade
Fleischmann + Weise trade
Eller trade.

I'm worried about the context of what's happening, the trade for Allen (on a one year deal), the trade for Edmundson and extension. It's ominously feeling like a man trying to get into the play-offs at all costs this year because he's taking the Covid invitational results a little too seriously (which recent cup winner performed particularly well in RTP? None of them did and even Washington admitted to their team being checked out from the beginning).

We will see, but its not so much these comments that I find bothersome but them in tandem with things we've heard in the media and moves that have been made recently. I think they're going to miss an opportunity to really cash in on the Suzuki-KK window (which should coincide with the falling off of the Boston Bruins, the cap troubles of the Lightning and the Leafs) and try to force things into "win-now" mode too earlier.

The trade for Allen makes perfect sense. He will play a lot and you can't keep running Price the way you have for the past few years, especially in a potential schedule filled with B2B and three games in four nights. That time is and had to be over. Allen was a good move.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
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There are certain things he can admit.
Like the size issue, he can say that its a problem they want to rectify, not talk like a loser saying how big skilled guys aren't available...blablabla. Its a constant excuse/defeatist attitude that Bergey displays.
Thats why fans get annoyed and upset.
Nobody is upset because he didn't mention his draft targets or commit to saying by Nov 1st, we will have a big skilled winger.
He has though...but really, I don't wanna hear him talk about it, I wanna see him address it.

I'm sure you feel the same way
 

CHfan1

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Apr 23, 2012
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We have an elite goal tending tandum, a solid dcore, and a decently solid forward corps. Just how decent the forward corps is will depend on a lot of factors. First and foremost if Suzuki and KK can do what they did in the return to play over however many games this upcoming season is. Then there's the fact that the forward corps is next on MB's list to improve this offseason. Then there's the fact that most of our previously young players are in their prime (Armia, Lehkonen, Drouin, Domi, Danault). And, vets like Gallagher and Tatar aren't by any means over the hill.

I'm not certain we miss the playoffs.

Which teams that Montreal finished behind in the regular season do you have them ahead of when playing a full regular season? (TB, Bos, Tor, Florida, Was, Pitt, Phi, Car, NYI, NYR, CLB)?
 
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26Mats

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Which teams that Montreal finished behind in the regular season do you have them ahead of when playing a full regular season? (TB, Bos, Tor, Florida, Was, Pitt, Phi, Car, NYI, NYR, CLB)?

It's a good point. But we'll see when the season starts. We got the better of both the Penguins and the Flyers in the playoffs - in terms of who outplayed who.

We had a good start before Drouin and Byron went down in the game we were slaughtering Washington...
We'll have to stay healthy. But with the emergence of Suzuki and KK, we have that much more depth. I don't really see any of our players in steep decline, only trending upwards. If Weber falls off that will be huge.

I wouldn't be surprised if we grab a wild card spot or miss the playoffs, either way.
 

Kriss E

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He has though...but really, I don't wanna hear him talk about it, I wanna see him address it.

I'm sure you feel the same way
Finding excuses like “big skilled guys aren't really available” is the reason he gives for not addressing it. They're linked.
I dont want to hear that, I want to hear him say they will address it. The whole point of needing a French speaking GM/Coach is so they can address the public. If we're going to say who cares then dont hire bilingual candidates. If they're going on the radio then might as well show you have a good understanding of issues at hand and a need to address them.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
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The trade for Allen makes perfect sense. He will play a lot and you can't keep running Price the way you have for the past few years, especially in a potential schedule filled with B2B and three games in four nights. That time is and had to be over. Allen was a good move.

Its a goalie on a one year deal.. what happens next year, when the goalie market doesn't project to be as flushed as this one.. we decide that Price doesn't need rest?
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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Finding excuses like “big skilled guys aren't really available” is the reason he gives for not addressing it. They're linked.
I dont want to hear that, I want to hear him say they will address it. The whole point of needing a French speaking GM/Coach is so they can address the public. If we're going to say who cares then dont hire bilingual candidates. If they're going on the radio then might as well show you have a good understanding of issues at hand and a need to address them.

I was disappointed in him saying there are no big skilled wingers on the UFA market so therefore he's looking at the trade market.

Hall fills our need for a scoring winger. Period. Sure if his term and AAV demands are too high forget it. But his size is not an issue.

Plus, he better not miss out on your boy Kovalchuk!
 

Kriss E

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I was disappointed in him saying there are no big skilled wingers on the UFA market so therefore he's looking at the trade market.

Hall fills our need for a scoring winger. Period. Sure if his term and AAV demands are too high forget it. But his size is not an issue.

Plus, he better not miss out on your boy Kovalchuk!
Kovy ain't coming back buddy. That shit has sailed.
Bergevin doesn't like to commit everything. He remains the vaguest possible so nobody can come back to say “hey you said you were gonna do that but didnt”.
Hes a p***y.
 
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