Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

If Bergevin did that, fans would criticize him for not being professional. Some will never like whatever he does at this point.

Because his reputation precedes him.

 

[Runner77]

Because his reputation precedes him.

It’s not about liking Bergevin, it’s all about results. His actions have consistently betrayed his words. He’s also never followed a decipherable, reasonable plan.

When you add it all up, it’s unfathomable that he won’t continue with more of the same. Those who continue to believe in him are all hoping or claiming that he’s started to turn a corner. Eight years is a long wait for someone to start to do the right thing.

 

[Forsead]

Maybe Petry could be named Assistant GM as part of his new deal, he seems to have a better gasp to what the Habs needs than Bergy.

 

[DAChampion]

I play a lot of pretend-GM on here. I've been right and I've been wrong about many things in recent years.

Here are some of my (recent) mistakes, as in since the management overhaul of 2018.

I thought that it would be great for the Habs to sign Tavares. He's done jack shit for Toronto, and right now the Habd would be worse off if they were paying 13 million/year to Tavares.

I thought that Kotkaniemi should have started in Laval or stayed in Liiga for the 2018-19 season.

I was in favour of trading Pacioretty for the best package available and moving on. Waiting turned out to be better.

I thought that Galchenyuk for Domi would be a bad trade.

Possible: I would have sold Tatar or Petry at the deadline. Time will tell if that would have been the right move.

*****

So quite unlike the early years of Bergevin's tenure, where his administration was making me facepalm everyday.

 

[Whitesnake]

I play a lot of pretend-GM on here. I've been right and I've been wrong about many things in recent years.

Here are some of my (recent) mistakes, as in since the management overhaul of 2018.

I thought that it would be great for the Habs to sign Tavares. He's done jack shit for Toronto, and right now the Habd would be worse off if they were paying 13 million/year to Tavares.

I thought that Kotkaniemi should have started in Laval or stayed in Liiga for the 2018-19 season.

I was in favour of trading Pacioretty for the best package available and moving on. Waiting turned out to be better.

I thought that Galchenyuk for Domi would be a bad trade.

Possible: I would have sold Tatar or Petry at the deadline. Time will tell if that would have been the right move.

*****

So quite unlike the early years of Bergevin's tenure, where his administration was making me facepalm everyday.

Us making mistakes are WAY more normal than professionals who have 1000% more of the infos needed to make moves.

 

[Whitesnake]

Because his reputation precedes him.

I have no idea what results Bergevin has so that we should give him the benefit of the doubt....

 

[DAChampion]

Us making mistakes are WAY more normal than professionals who have 1000% more of the infos needed to make moves.

I'm hoping other posters also acknowledge some of their recent mistakes. That can build humanity.

 

[Runner77]

I play a lot of pretend-GM on here. I've been right and I've been wrong about many things in recent years.

Here are some of my (recent) mistakes, as in since the management overhaul of 2018.

I thought that it would be great for the Habs to sign Tavares. He's done jack shit for Toronto, and right now the Habd would be worse off if they were paying 13 million/year to Tavares.

I thought that Kotkaniemi should have started in Laval or stayed in Liiga for the 2018-19 season.

I was in favour of trading Pacioretty for the best package available and moving on. Waiting turned out to be better.

I thought that Galchenyuk for Domi would be a bad trade.

Possible: I would have sold Tatar or Petry at the deadline. Time will tell if that would have been the right move.

*****

So quite unlike the early years of Bergevin's tenure, where his administration was making me facepalm everyday.

Tavares would not have been a mistake at the time -- we had no viable number one center. Plus, Tavares put up 47 goals and 88 points in his first full season in Toronto. That's not jackshit. DAChampion had this one right.

KK should have started in Laval or Liiga. Proof is he ended up there anyway, he was rushed. DAChampion had it right again.

Pacioretty drove the deal, he had the ultimate say on whether he'd negotiate an extension with the team that wanted to trade for him. Nothing DAChampion could have done about it.

Galchenyuk: DAChampion was not alone in this. Domi had not put up anything close to the first season he had in Montreal. Plus, DAChampion was not privy to all the insider info that Bergevin had, which included substance abuse issues, toxic family, etc. If he had been, he might have not have had as high an opinion of Galchenyuk.

Tatar: agreed with DAChampion -- he should have been traded at the TDL.

Petry: there was no real rush to trade him at the past TDL, he's still worth his weight in gold.

I'm casting my vote for DAChampion as the next Habs GM.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'm hoping other posters also acknowledge some of their recent mistakes. That can build humanity.

I just openly voice it whenever I can.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Its hard to admit anything to hypotheticals. Coming to the habs could have changed a lot for some players and nothing for others. Take Eller, If he had been traded after 2014 we would have gotten a first and he may have developed into a 2nd line center, though he likely would not have won a cup. Had Chuck been sent to the Dogs he may have developed better by not being rushed. At this time with so much fury at Domi its a bit of a wash. One problem for another. We still didn't make the playoffs with his 72 points. And he ends up on the 4th line this year...

What if we had traded Patches before we did in a package deal? Suzuki is the same as patches was. He was a bit of a throw in like Craig Rivait getting us the extra pick. Or McD to get gomez. What if we had traded Subban for the rumoured package out of EDM? Hindsight isn't always 20/20 because when you change a few small things in the past it changes everything for the future. We don't move chuck or eller and stay a bubble team and thus never trade patches. We currently would have no KK, no suzuki and an aging core.

I can admit that we may be too harsh on the moves made at the time by MB, but that doesn't change the end result. Even with some of his so called best moves we are still a bottom 8 team. We saw a couple nice games from our prospects but leaves many lingering questions and endless debate. Who to move, who should be extended, when should we do so, can we finally sign a UFA that we won't toss aside like a sack of garbage? In 8 years who have we signed of any substance that stayed with the team as a UFA? Charoit?? Most of the good "signings" were trades for UFAs to plug holes and we didn't get on july 1st. But again looking at history of other teams, it doesn't always make you a better team to get a good UFA.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Tavares would not have been a mistake at the time -- we had no viable number one center. Plus, Tavares put up 47 goals and 88 points in his first full season in Toronto. That's not jackshit. DAChampion had this one right.

KK should have started in Laval or Liiga. Proof is he ended up there anyway, he was rushed. DAChampion had it right again.

Pacioretty drove the deal, he had the ultimate say on whether he'd negotiate an extension with the team that wanted to trade for him. Nothing DAChampion could have done about it.

Galchenyuk: DAChampion was not alone in this. Domi had not put up anything close to the first season he had in Montreal. Plus, DAChampion was not privy to all the insider info that Bergevin had, which included substance abuse issues, toxic family, etc. If he had been, he might have not have had as high an opinion of Galchenyuk.

Tatar: agreed with DAChampion -- he should have been traded at the TDL.

Petry: there was no real rush to trade him at the past TDL, he's still worth his weight in gold.

I'm casting my vote for DAChampion as the next Habs GM.

It was more pressing to trade Petry. Like Tatar, he only has one year left. He will be 6 months away from being 34 years old when his new contract will start. It's a huge risk of losing value to sign such a dman at that age, unless it's short term. At least with Tatar, you can always re-sign him and have lesser risks of losing value when trading him later on. It's not like with Markov where you knew his IQ could carry him over 35 years old. When he signs, there will be about 2-3 seasons maximum left of what Petry currently offers, but we'll probably have to sign him for a few more as he will likely want to cash out on his next contract, just as Tatar will.

And besides all that, we're in no position to compete. It would be assinine to keep Petry. If he's re-signed, it will only be to keep the mediocrity afloat. Yay!

 

[ahmedou]

#Drouin-Conférencedepresse/TournoiGolf(20/09/01):Bergevin

«Si tu as la chance d’aller chercher un bon joueur, tu dois le faire. Que ce soit à l’attaque ou à la défense. C’est sûr quand lorsque tu peux ajouter un bon défenseur ou un bon attaquant, tu ne craches pas là-dessus. Mais c’est à Marc Bergevin et à son équipe de prendre ces décisions-là... Mais c’est sûr que s’il était capable de nous dénicher un attaquant capable de nous marquer des buts, on ne dirait pas non à ça.»

«On aime beaucoup notre équipe, mais on ne peut pas refuser l’ajout d’un gros morceau. On a de l’argent de disponible, mais il faut donner cet argent-là à un joueur qui aidera vraiment l’équipe.»

 

[JimboJay]

I play a lot of pretend-GM on here. I've been right and I've been wrong about many things in recent years.

Here are some of my (recent) mistakes, as in since the management overhaul of 2018.

I thought that it would be great for the Habs to sign Tavares. He's done jack shit for Toronto, and right now the Habd would be worse off if they were paying 13 million/year to Tavares.

I thought that Kotkaniemi should have started in Laval or stayed in Liiga for the 2018-19 season.

I was in favour of trading Pacioretty for the best package available and moving on. Waiting turned out to be better.

I thought that Galchenyuk for Domi would be a bad trade.

Possible: I would have sold Tatar or Petry at the deadline. Time will tell if that would have been the right move.

*****

So quite unlike the early years of Bergevin's tenure, where his administration was making me facepalm everyday.

a couple of points in response:

- Its tough to say how Tavares would be here. He'd be "the guy" in Toronto he's playing second fiddle (or wing sometimes). 13m is a ton to swallow (and messes up your whole pay scale) but it may no be as bad here as it was there.

- Tough to say if waiting with Pacioretty was better, we dont know what he would have garnered earlier and there's intel that we actually wanted Glass + for him, not Suzuki (LV wouldnt give up Glass). In hindsight it worked out beautifully (also because Tatar had a rebirth) but who knows what was really out there. Tough to say.

 

[Kriss E]

I play a lot of pretend-GM on here. I've been right and I've been wrong about many things in recent years.

Here are some of my (recent) mistakes, as in since the management overhaul of 2018.

I thought that it would be great for the Habs to sign Tavares. He's done jack shit for Toronto, and right now the Habd would be worse off if they were paying 13 million/year to Tavares.

I thought that Kotkaniemi should have started in Laval or stayed in Liiga for the 2018-19 season.

I was in favour of trading Pacioretty for the best package available and moving on. Waiting turned out to be better.

I thought that Galchenyuk for Domi would be a bad trade.

Possible: I would have sold Tatar or Petry at the deadline. Time will tell if that would have been the right move.

*****

So quite unlike the early years of Bergevin's tenure, where his administration was making me facepalm everyday.

1) Tavares would be a great addition here...you weren't wrong about that. You don't pass up on getting him just like you don't skip on Pietro if he is available to us this summer.
Bergey was interested btw..Tavares is the one who didn't want to come here.

2) KK could have probably benefited from starting in Laval or Liiga, as Runner mentioned, he ended up in Laval later anyways.

3) The Patches trade is working out nicely, but you don't actually know if there were any better deals on the table. All we can say is that it's a good trade, was it the best package? Well you need to have all the info to know this and we don't.

4) Domi had a great first year here but has since been just as much of a headache as Galch. Funnily enough, he might have played his last game here and he's done it while getting ice time on the 4th line during the POs....which is the same thing that happened to Galch.
If this season is the real Domi, as many suspect, well he's not much of an upgrade. Classic lateral move by Bergevin.

5) You won't actually know if it was the right move to hold onto Tatar and Petry. Just like for Patches, you need to know what could have been on the table for those guys.

I don't think any of what you said can really qualify as mistakes. We are nothing but fans, we aren't privy to all the information Bergevin has. Apparently trading for a useless finished enforcer like John Scott was a very complex situation and ''if only we knew...we'd understand''...
So who knows what other proposals were on the table for Patches, Tatar, Petry or Galchenyuk.
Maybe there were deals in place for other players we have too, did someone call Bergey for Drouin last summer and he refused? Did Bergey go around the league to see what he could fetch for Sergachev?
Was Weber really the best deal for Subban?...etc...etc...etc...

 

[ahmedou]

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because his reputation precedes him.

For how long? I think he's been much better recently so... are some fans who don't like him one bit going to adjust or never trust his ability? Took him a while but he has addressed the Center and LD issues. Was he lucky?

 

[DAChampion]

For how long? I think he's been much better recently so... are some fans who don't like him one bit going to adjust or never trust his ability? Took him a while but he has addressed the Center and LD issues. Was he lucky?

Even I'm more lukewarm on Bergevin and I was his harshest critic here.

This summer is very telling. The team has obvious needs, obvious strengths, and a lot of cap space and assets with which to recalibrate. We'll see what happens.

Was Edmundson added so that all of Mete, Juulsen, and Fleury are kept off the roster, or was he added to facilitate trading away another player such as Kulak or Mete or Chiarot? We don't know, so it's too early to pass judgment on that trade. We also don't know what kind of contract Bergevin is willing to give to Edmundson.

Which forward, if any, will Bergevin add to the roster? How many assets will he give up?

What will Bergevin do about Danault and Domi?

Bergevin has the potential to build a contender here, but if he squanders it on stupidity, he will never be forgiven for squandering the best years of Suzuki and Kotkaniemi.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Even I'm more lukewarm on Bergevin and I was his harshest critic here.

This summer is very telling. The team has obvious needs, obvious strengths, and a lot of cap space and assets with which to recalibrate. We'll see what happens.

Was Edmundson added so that all of Mete, Juulsen, and Fleury are kept off the roster, or was he added to facilitate trading away another player such as Kulak or Chiarot? We don't know, so it's too early to pass judgment on that trade. We also don't know what kind of contract Bergevin is willing to give to Edmundson.

Which forward, if any, will Bergevin add to the roster? How many assets will he give up?

What will Bergevin do about Danault and Domi?

Bergevin has the potential to build a contender here, but if he squanders it on stupidity, he will never be forgiven for squandering the best years of Suzuki and Kotkaniemi.

I'll throw him under the bus quickly if he takes too long to find scoring wingers to be honest. It's a great time to get aggressive with the vets, mid core, and youth on ELC/Bridge deals in the next 3-5 years. If Point and Kucherov can be bridged, so can Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield, etc.

I supported patience for a while now since we rebuild our prospect pool. But I don't support some linear direct plan at this point in time. We are going to have a 50 contract headache if we keep having 10 picks per round for 4 or more drafts. Something will have to give and balance is required.

What will he do with both Danault and Domi? That's both exciting and scary to me. Sign/trade is not easy to do

 

[The Great Weal]

Bergevin is excellent at getting value in trades, but when the drafting and development is so bad, it doesn't mean anything. For someone who wants to build through the draft, he has a horrendous record. We have 3 players that he drafted since 2012 in our lineup. Kotkaniemi who was a top 3 pick, Lehkonen who is a solid player but nothing special and Mete who might not even be on the team this year and we made a trade to acquire another LD because he hasn't been good enough. I'm not sure if Evans will start in the NHL, but I would be shocked if he ended up being anything more than a bottom 6 forward. That's just really bad to say the least.

 

[DAChampion]

Bergevin is excellent at getting value in trades, but when the drafting and development is so bad, it doesn't mean anything. For someone who wants to build through the draft, he has a horrendous record. We have 3 players that he drafted since 2012 in our lineup. Kotkaniemi who was a top 3 pick, Lehkonen who is a solid player but nothing special and Mete who might not even be on the team this year and we made a trade to acquire another LD because he hasn't been good enough. I'm not sure if Evans will start in the NHL, but I would be shocked if he ended up being anything more than a bottom 6 forward. That's just really bad to say the least.

Go read the details of Bouchard's comments in the Poehling thread. It's so lovely that it's uplifting.

 

[bsl]

And the problem now is that we won't be able to blame Sylvain Lefebvre.....sucks. Maybe we will have to look elsewhere this time around....

Where I started looking 6 years ago.

 

[bsl]

No -- we'll be assigning partial credit to Joel Bouchard as more and more of the prospects progress.

Let's re-visit this in a year.

 

[Kriss E]

For how long? I think he's been much better recently so... are some fans who don't like him one bit going to adjust or never trust his ability? Took him a while but he has addressed the Center and LD issues. Was he lucky?

Never trust his ability?...You really think now's the time to ask others to trust him after we were going to miss the POs 4/5 years and finished 24th?
He fixed our LD issues? Because we got Edmunson?
Our centers are addressed? Ya...apparently it was also when he drafted Galch with him, Eller, Plek, DD here.
How did that go? Maybe wait until the players prove themselves before claiming a problem is fixed.
Edmunson isn't signed and Romanov has not played one game.

Bergevin has not been ''much better''. He's done f*** all. We improved our prospect pool, expected of a team who does so poorly.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Never trust his ability?...You really think now's the time to ask others to trust him after we were going to miss the POs 4/5 years and finished 24th?
He fixed our LD issues? Because we got Edmunson?
Our centers are addressed? Ya...apparently it was also when he drafted Galch with him, Eller, Plek, DD here.
How did that go? Maybe wait until the players prove themselves before claiming a problem is fixed.
Edmunson isn't signed and Romanov has not played one game.

Bergevin has not been ''much better''. He's done f*** all. We improved our prospect pool, expected of a team who does so poorly.

We also had a good prospect pool in 2012 , literally nothing came out since then

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Hes been in office for nearly a decade . The team has made no progress whatsoever from where we were a decade ago, still a middling team with a really good goalie. 8 years boys. He gets to save face a bit because for the first time in forever we have two good forward prospects in KK and Suzuki. Correct me if im wrong but when we picked kk at third overall pretty sure the goal was to compete that year. Dude has no plan. Clown