Marc Bergevin: 5 stages of grief edition

[Sorinth]

OR


Folks are acting with Beaulieu the way they did with Smith-Pelley after we traded him for not meeting expectations, among other things. He was scoring at a career pace for 20 games afterwards, it was all Therrien's fault. He was clearly a top 6 Power Forward and we gave up on him unfairly. Not even 5 months later, Smith-Pelley is back to the standard he set for himself for several seasons. Silence on the matter throughout the land, though the revolt was in full swing 10 games after the trade. It just goes to show you, this Fan Base would rather **** and moan about how good a player we have given up on will be now that we traded him away. No one pipes up though when he continues to do no better, or even worse for that matter, after we shipped him off. Not even a "Hey guess they were right about that guy." or a "Remember when were rioting because we thought Smith-Pelley was going to score 20 goals a year going forward and we were going to have to watch haha." Nope, Nothing, only silence.

So I wonder, if Beaulieu goes to Buffalo, and plays no better than he did here. Shows no more consistency or maturity than he did here, if not even the great Phil Housley can make a top 4 Dman out of him, I wonder if Silence will once again be heard on the matter later on this year. Because if a guy can't get close to his potential at almost 25 years old, and botches the opportunity of a career to play along side Weber, then when does it happen? Next year? and every Next year after that? Not very likely.

You can go on thinking now Beaulieu is going to really show us what he's got, He is going to really turn a corner playing under the watchful eye of Housley that he could not do playing under the wing of Weber. But the truth is he has not shown any signs of that, his issues that plague his consistency and decision making are still the same ones from his first full season. And if you want to blame this management for not wanting to get sucked into paying 2.5+ mill for a guy who likely can't elevate his game past a 3rd pair guy, with consistency issues and difficult to trust night in and night out, feel free. But Beaulieu made his own bed, on and off the ice here, he was given 3 seasons to turn a corner, he was given a top pair opportunity along side Weber last season. He is ultimately the one, with his own play, who played himself from a chance on the top Pair with Weber at the start of the year, to a healthy scratch at the end of the playoffs with a totally different coach.

I hope you include yourself as part of the fanbase that loves to ***** and moan because your entire post is just that.

EDIT: It honestly doesn't matter whether Beaulieu goes on to become a top-4 defenceman or not. The point is we didn't help him they way we could've and should've. That's the real issue.

 

[Bryson]

Until that new GM fails to win a Cup in his first 2yrs as GM

Then it's off with his head too I suppose

Red Herring and low IQ level argument from you. I liked Gainey, I defended Gauthier and I even defended Jacques Martin from people as close as my own family. Bergevin and Therrien? Straight trash. Even Bergevin lasted 5 years before majority of people stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt, not sure where you are coming up with 2yrs.

Nobody is upset at Bergevin for not winning a stanley cup. People are upset for not seeing any progress. Norris trophy Dman even through we traded him, a vezina goalie, 35+ goal scorer, PP QB, 2 way Center, 3rd OA pick etc. all the pieces were there and you're telling me this team has not been able to make it past the 2nd round more than once? THAT IS PATHETIC! And you defend this mediocrity?

What I see from the fans like you is something I've never experienced in my life in any other sport but it would make for an excellent psycho analysis. Basically the view from the 20% left supporting MB is that anyone is a position of power is automatically competent at their job which I can assure is not the case.

 

[417]

OR


Folks are acting with Beaulieu the way they did with Smith-Pelley after we traded him for not meeting expectations, among other things. He was scoring at a career pace for 20 games afterwards, it was all Therrien's fault. He was clearly a top 6 Power Forward and we gave up on him unfairly. Not even 5 months later, Smith-Pelley is back to the standard he set for himself for several seasons. Silence on the matter throughout the land, though the revolt was in full swing 10 games after the trade. It just goes to show you, this Fan Base would rather **** and moan about how good a player we have given up on will be now that we traded him away. No one pipes up though when he continues to do no better, or even worse for that matter, after we shipped him off. Not even a "Hey guess they were right about that guy." or a "Remember when were rioting because we thought Smith-Pelley was going to score 20 goals a year going forward and we were going to have to watch haha." Nope, Nothing, only silence.

So I wonder, if Beaulieu goes to Buffalo, and plays no better than he did here. Shows no more consistency or maturity than he did here, if not even the great Phil Housley can make a top 4 Dman out of him, I wonder if Silence will once again be heard on the matter later on this year. Because if a guy can't get close to his potential at almost 25 years old, and botches the opportunity of a career to play along side Weber, then when does it happen? Next year? and every Next year after that? Not very likely.

You can go on thinking now Beaulieu is going to really show us what he's got, He is going to really turn a corner playing under the watchful eye of Housley that he could not do playing under the wing of Weber. But the truth is he has not shown any signs of that, his issues that plague his consistency and decision making are still the same ones from his first full season. And if you want to blame this management for not wanting to get sucked into paying 2.5+ mill for a guy who likely can't elevate his game past a 3rd pair guy, with consistency issues and difficult to trust night in and night out, feel free. But Beaulieu made his own bed, on and off the ice here, he was given 3 seasons to turn a corner, he was given a top pair opportunity along side Weber last season. He is ultimately the one, with his own play, who played himself from a chance on the top Pair with Weber at the start of the year, to a healthy scratch at the end of the playoffs with a totally different coach.

If Beaulieu goes to Buffalo and continues to be the inconsistent Dman he is today...

It'll be because of Sylvain Lefebvre and this organization's trouble with "developing" players. (Which apparently means to turn bad to average players into good to great ones)

 

[417]

Red Herring and low IQ level argument from you. I liked Gainey, I defended Gauthier and I even defended Jacques Martin from people as close as my own family. Bergevin and Therrien? Straight trash. Even Bergevin lasted 5 years before majority of people stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt, not sure where you are coming up with 2yrs.

Nobody is upset at Bergevin for not winning a stanley cup. People are upset for not seeing any progress. Norris trophy Dman even through we traded him, a vezina goalie, 35+ goal scorer, PP QB, 2 way Center, 3rd OA pick etc. all the pieces were there and you're telling me this team has not been able to make it past the 2nd round more than once? THAT IS PATHETIC! And you defend this mediocrity?

What I see from the fans like you is something I've never experienced in my life in any other sport but it would make for an excellent psycho analysis. Basically the view from the 20% left supporting MB is that anyone is a position of power is automatically competent at their job which I can assure is not the case.

You have no idea what my view on Bergevin...you assume because you've identified me as a sympathizer.

Low-hanging fruit...I won't stop you from tasting that delicious fruit, you've probably never tasted anything else...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

OR

Folks are acting with Beaulieu the way they did with Smith-Pelley after we traded him for not meeting expectations, among other things. He was scoring at a career pace for 20 games afterwards, it was all Therrien's fault. He was clearly a top 6 Power Forward and we gave up on him unfairly. Not even 5 months later, Smith-Pelley is back to the standard he set for himself for several seasons. Silence on the matter throughout the land, though the revolt was in full swing 10 games after the trade. It just goes to show you, this Fan Base would rather **** and moan about how good a player we have given up on will be now that we traded him away. No one pipes up though when he continues to do no better, or even worse for that matter, after we shipped him off. Not even a "Hey guess they were right about that guy." or a "Remember when were rioting because we thought Smith-Pelley was going to score 20 goals a year going forward and we were going to have to watch haha." Nope, Nothing, only silence.

So I wonder, if Beaulieu goes to Buffalo, and plays no better than he did here. Shows no more consistency or maturity than he did here, if not even the great Phil Housley can make a top 4 Dman out of him, I wonder if Silence will once again be heard on the matter later on this year. Because if a guy can't get close to his potential at almost 25 years old, and botches the opportunity of a career to play along side Weber, then when does it happen? Next year? and every Next year after that? Not very likely.

You can go on thinking now Beaulieu is going to really show us what he's got, He is going to really turn a corner playing under the watchful eye of Housley that he could not do playing under the wing of Weber. But the truth is he has not shown any signs of that, his issues that plague his consistency and decision making are still the same ones from his first full season. And if you want to blame this management for not wanting to get sucked into paying 2.5+ mill for a guy who likely can't elevate his game past a 3rd pair guy, with consistency issues and difficult to trust night in and night out, feel free. But Beaulieu made his own bed, on and off the ice here, he was given 3 seasons to turn a corner, he was given a top pair opportunity along side Weber last season. He is ultimately the one, with his own play, who played himself from a chance on the top Pair with Weber at the start of the year, to a healthy scratch at the end of the playoffs with a totally different coach.

Developing players at age 25...

At this stage Beau is probably all he'll ever be. The damage has been done with Galchenyuk as well. Neither are every going to be the players they could've been.

With Beau, I'm fully prepared to admit that I probably overestimated how good he'd be. But for him to have not become at least a solid 2nd pairing guy is disappointing to say the least. I doubt that he wouldn't have been a lot better if we'd had say... Larry Robinson working with him.

I don't expect him to set the world on fire going forward. But I hope he establishes himself as the solid blueliner I think he should be.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

...
You can go on thinking now Beaulieu is going to really show us what he's got, He is going to really turn a corner playing under the watchful eye of Housley that he could not do playing under the wing of Weber. But the truth is he has not shown any signs of that, his issues that plague his consistency and decision making are still the same ones from his first full season. And if you want to blame this management for not wanting to get sucked into paying 2.5+ mill for a guy who likely can't elevate his game past a 3rd pair guy, with consistency issues and difficult to trust night in and night out, feel free. But Beaulieu made his own bed, on and off the ice here, he was given 3 seasons to turn a corner, he was given a top pair opportunity along side Weber last season. He is ultimately the one, with his own play, who played himself from a chance on the top Pair with Weber at the start of the year, to a healthy scratch at the end of the playoffs with a totally different coach.

Preeeeeeecisely. Sure, he has made progress over his 200+ NHL games so far. Not enough to toss a raise and commitment at though, imo, and still easily replaced.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I wonder how many fanbases hold the opinion of their team being good enough for 100+pt seasons, yet at the same time think the GM is clueless and needs to be fired at all costs.

Seems like a reasonable stance to take.

(Insert Carey Price is responsible for our regular season success post).

Thanks for saving us the post.

 

[Bryson]

If Beaulieu goes to Buffalo and continues to be the inconsistent Dman he is today...

It'll be because of Sylvain Lefebvre and this organization's trouble with "developing" players. (Which apparently means to turn bad to average players into good to great ones)

It is pretty much unanimous that Stephen Waite is a great coach and that Sylvain Lefebvre is a terrible coach. Are you going to go on record saying that this is not true?

Mr inconsisitent was still the Habs 3rd best Dman just saying and we just traded an NHL player for a pick that may never even make it to the NHL.

 

[417]

Thanks for saving us the post.

Didn't take much effort lol

 

[417]

It is pretty much unanimous that Stephen Waite is a great coach and that Sylvain Lefebvre is a terrible coach. Are you going to go on record saying that this is not true?

Mr inconsisitent was still the Habs 3rd best Dman just saying and we just traded an NHL player for a pick that may never even make it to the NHL.

3rs best Dman lol

Insanity

 

[Bryson]

Preeeeeeecisely. Sure, he has made progress over his 200+ NHL games so far. Not enough to toss a raise and commitment at though, imo, and still easily replaced.

An NHL defenseman that has made progress EVERY single year including his most recent 28 point season and is still only 24 years old but apparently this is not enough for Ohashi. Coming from someone that defended Douglas Murray to the death because he though he was actually a good defenseman, I am not surprised.

So when these same posters constantly crap on our best players like Beaulieu and Subban but defend the Douglas Murray's and Desharnais' of the world, all of the puzzle pieces actually start to make sense.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

3rs best Dman lol

Insanity

You're being kind.

 

[417]

An NHL defenseman that has made progress EVERY single year and is still only 24 years old but apparently this is not enough for Ohashi. Coming from someone that defended Douglas Murray to the death because he though he was actually a good defenseman, I am not surprised.

So when these same posters constantly crap on our best players like Beaulieu and Subban but defend the Douglas Murray's and Desharnais' of the world, all of the puzzle pieces actually start to make sense.

Best players like Bealieu and Subban???

Just stop man...like now.

 

[Bryson]

Best players like Bealieu and Subban???

Just stop man...like now.

Make me

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

An NHL defenseman that has made progress EVERY single year and is still only 24 years old but apparently this is not enough for Ohashi. Coming from someone that defended Douglas Murray to the death because he though he was actually a good defenseman, I am not surprised.

So when these same posters constantly crap on our best players like Beaulieu and Subban but defend the Douglas Murray's and Desharnais' of the world, all of the puzzle pieces actually start to make sense.

WTF are you going on about. First of all, I have never defended Desharnais. Jesus Christ, pretty much the exact opposite. Second of all, Doug Murray had a niche (a team-first guy and our toughest/most physically intimidating defenseman - because, you know, Weaver/Diaz/Bouillon/etc...), and he was decent enough at it for part of a season. Almost the exact opposite of Beaulieu in many ways since he was very smart but limited (as opposed to pretty dumb but decently skilled). Similarly though, not good enough at it to throw any more money/commitment at, and there were no tears shed from this poster when his NHL career was over at the end of the season.

But back to Beaulieu, since we've addressed you just blabbering about me instead of hockey for half your post, you are correct. What he (Beau) showed up to the end of last year was not good enough to reward with term, let alone a significant raise. But you know what? If he didn't have any off-ice issues surrounding him, he probably could have had an extra year or two of rope. But no one should lose much sleep over this one. If his name was John Smith his 225 games here would have been utterly forgettable outside of maybe one of two of his fights...

 

[Link67]

An NHL defenseman that has made progress EVERY single year including his most recent 28 point season and is still only 24 years old but apparently this is not enough for Ohashi. Coming from someone that defended Douglas Murray to the death because he though he was actually a good defenseman, I am not surprised.

So when these same posters constantly crap on our best players like Beaulieu and Subban but defend the Douglas Murray's and Desharnais' of the world, all of the puzzle pieces actually start to make sense.

get your eyes off the stupid stat sheet on Hockey DB and watch him over the course of the 3 seasons. Jesus Christ this type of crap drives me nuts, "But he got more points than the year before OMG". Really, so you trusted him out there against top 6 players, his decision making was sound, and he was a very stable and steady force out there to go hand in hand with this improved point total that seems to matter so much to you? nevermind the total sum of the parts to his game and all the faults within them, his point total says it went up, therefore he is a better DEFENSEMAN than he was last year? He lost his spot because of his own woeful and inconsistent play to Alexei Freakin Emelin. Mysteriously Emelin actually did better in that role than Beaulieu for awhile but still was inconsistent too and forced us to use Markov there in the end. And you want to sit here and talk about 28 points and how much potential we are throwing away? give me a break with this nonsense. I haven't seen us give a young Dman as much of a chance to establish himself as we did with Beaulieu since Subban was breaking into the league.

 

[Link67]

I hope you include yourself as part of the fanbase that loves to ***** and moan because your entire post is just that.

EDIT: It honestly doesn't matter whether Beaulieu goes on to become a top-4 defenceman or not. The point is we didn't help him they way we could've and should've. That's the real issue.

your right I am pissing and moaning about all the constant pissing and moaning.


And you are saying we didn't give him enough opportunity to thrive? We didn't go ahead with the Idea to try him out on the top pair with Weber along side because he had a very strong pre-season? We gave a 24 year old an opportunity on our top pair, to play against top players while watching and learning from our top Dman. That is the exact situation where a player should feel "He has the coaches trust and the organizations confidence" as you hear them say so often. Only problem is he blew it with inconsistent and too often reckless play. He showed the exact same ups and downs of the previous campaign, extra confidence and feeling important didn't help, an increased role only exposed him more. What should they have done more to make him feel like an integral part of the D-core last season, made him a part time Defense Coach? Perhaps hire a special psychologist on the bench for him in between shifts?


In what world does being given a top spot on a silver platter, playing with the best player we have to offer on defense, with every hope in the world that you can succeed, NOT a good enough leap of faith towards a young player? Sometimes players just don't reach their potential, it happens all the time, But there is a fine line between making excuses for them all the time and realizing that reality might just be the case here. What more should we have done oh wise non-complaining one?

 

[Harry22]

Thanks for saving us the post.

It's like they don't think Carey Price is the reason this team stays above water when it clearly is.

 

[Kant Think]

This thread makes me think we're heading towards a Montreal Canadiens civil war.

The anger is palpable.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

The problem isn't even so much about that Beaulieu failed to take advantage of an oppontunity or not.

The problem is that Beaulieu is by far the best defenseman these chuckleheads have brought through the system in their time, so if he can't hack it there were zero alternative options to try. Hence the greying blueline.

Its the same with Andighetto. Decry his inadequacies as an NHL forward all you want, he still currently the third best forward the Bergevin regime has drafted and developed. If he's worthless, it goes a long way of showing how pretty much everyone they've touched is worthless.

 

[Wats]

Until that new GM fails to win a Cup in his first 2yrs as GM

Then it's off with his head too I suppose

Win a cup, get a top 6 center, have a good prospect pool, improve defense, have an offense that can score in playoffs. Pretty much all equal fantasies and unrealistic expectations I suppose.

 

[Wats]

I wonder how many fanbases hold the opinion of their team being good enough for 100+pt seasons, yet at the same time think the GM is clueless and needs to be fired at all costs.

Seems like a reasonable stance to take.

(Insert Carey Price is responsible for our regular season success post).

Yeah, I'm sure every hockey critic would agree that Montreal would have success with any regular starter... Especially after watching 15/16.

 

[DangerDave]

The problem isn't even so much about that Beaulieu failed to take advantage of an oppontunity or not.

The problem is that Beaulieu is by far the best defenseman these chuckleheads have brought through the system in their time, so if he can't hack it there were zero alternative options to try. Hence the greying blueline.

Its the same with Andighetto. Decry his inadequacies as an NHL forward all you want, he still currently the third best forward the Bergevin regime has drafted and developed. If he's worthless, it goes a long way of showing how pretty much everyone they've touched is worthless.

That is the real problem here. Our drafting and player development. If we drafted and developed somewhat decently, like let's say league average, We'd likely be contenders. We have the least amount of games played by drafted players of any NHL team since 2012.

 

[Kriss E]

I wonder how many fanbases hold the opinion of their team being good enough for 100+pt seasons, yet at the same time think the GM is clueless and needs to be fired at all costs.

Seems like a reasonable stance to take.

(Insert Carey Price is responsible for our regular season success post).

If that's the depth of your analysis I can introduce you to my 9 year old nephew and you guys can discuss things together. He loves checking the sports section to look at the standings, who has the most goals and assists...
You guys will get along great.

 

[Kriss E]

WTF are you going on about. First of all, I have never defended Desharnais. Jesus Christ, pretty much the exact opposite. Second of all, Doug Murray had a niche (a team-first guy and our toughest/most physically intimidating defenseman - because, you know, Weaver/Diaz/Bouillon/etc...), and he was decent enough at it for part of a season. Almost the exact opposite of Beaulieu in many ways since he was very smart but limited (as opposed to pretty dumb but decently skilled). Similarly though, not good enough at it to throw any more money/commitment at, and there were no tears shed from this poster when his NHL career was over at the end of the season.

What? Doug Murray was decent and very smart?
My god this board has completely lost its mind.