The Star: Maple Leafs seem happy to stick with eighth pick

[agropop]

Did this guy just say holland is better than Kadri...

FO%...

 

[Leafspoison*]

Can't blame him if the asking price is too high.

He doesn't know what the asking price is until he puts in an offer.

 

[Sypher04]

I could see a trade for a younger less established centre, But really if they didn't acquire one at all I wouldn't be shocked or too upset cause it probably would mean we'll get the guy next draft.

As for staying at 8th, I've been fine with it since the get go.

Isnt that a problem in itself though?

You've got Phaneuf and Kessel signed to these mega deals, like 7-8 years a piece with the expectation of competing if not now, then soon. If you aren't trying to do that, you don't sign those deals.

How exactly does standing pat help this team towards that goal. Even if we drafted that future 1C in the next draft as you suggest, then we're what, 3-4+ years out from him being an everyday NHLer?

 

[hullsy47]

I could see a trade for a younger less established centre, But really if they didn't acquire one at all I wouldn't be shocked or too upset cause it probably would mean we'll get the guy next draft.

As for staying at 8th, I've been fine with it since the get go.

i can see shanny standing pat or just cutting payroll .....getting ready for his own retool .if vancouvers offer is the best florida got ,no one is moving ,if phaneuf is in play ,he ll be the best deal anyone gets ,hed be the no 1 free agent defenseman available this year for fun .
next years draft has franchise type players ,this year looks like a bunch of kadri clones ,ill keep nazi ty .

 

[613Leafer]

Isnt that a problem in itself though?

You've got Phaneuf and Kessel signed to these mega deals, like 7-8 years a piece with the expectation of competing if not now, then soon. If you aren't trying to do that, you don't sign those deals.

How exactly does standing pat help this team towards that goal. Even if we drafted that future 1C in the next draft as you suggest, then we're what, 3-4+ years out from him being an everyday NHLer?

Leafs haven't made any particularly bold moves since Sundin left to address the #1 C position. Sure, they've drafted two centres in the 1st round (Kadri/Gauthier), they've signed a college UFA (Bozak), and they've picked up a couple of B-prospects in Colborne(now gone) and Holland.

But all of those moves had low odds of becoming a franchise Centre. Even Kadri at 7th OA, there really isn't much of a history of getting a cornerstone franchise talent at 7th OA, so expectations really should have been (and seem to be playing out as) us getting a 2nd liner out of that pick.

Top centers are obviously very difficult to acquire. But it seems pointless to burn through the prime years of Phaneuf/Kessel/Lupul/Bozak/etc and do nothing about it just because it's hard to get a top C. I'd prefer to see us trade a core veteran like Phaneuf to try and make a bold move and roll the dice on a guy like Reinhart or Bennett then to just sit around twiddling our thumbs with our current core.

We've seen a number of top pairing dman shuffle through this organization over the past decade, Kubina, Kaberle, McCabe, Beauchemin, Phaneuf, etc. If we move Phaneuf, he'll be a LOT easier to replace than it would be to find our next Sundin/Gilmour (without making a bold move to acquire a top C prospect). May as well roll the dice IMO, and sign a guy like Boyle or Robidas as a stop-gap to eat up some minutes in the short-term on the blueline.

 

[thewave]

Leafs haven't made any particularly bold moves since Sundin left to address the #1 C position. Sure, they've drafted two centres in the 1st round (Kadri/Gauthier), they've signed a college UFA (Bozak), and they've picked up a couple of B-prospects in Colborne(now gone) and Holland.

But all of those moves had low odds of becoming a franchise Centre. Even Kadri at 7th OA, there really isn't much of a history of getting a cornerstone franchise talent at 7th OA, so expectations really should have been (and seem to be playing out as) us getting a 2nd liner out of that pick.

Top centers are obviously very difficult to acquire. But it seems pointless to burn through the prime years of Phaneuf/Kessel/Lupul/Bozak/etc and do nothing about it just because it's hard to get a top C. I'd prefer to see us trade a core veteran like Phaneuf to try and make a bold move and roll the dice on a guy like Reinhart or Bennett then to just sit around twiddling our thumbs with our current core.

We've seen a number of top pairing dman shuffle through this organization over the past decade, Kubina, Kaberle, McCabe, Beauchemin, Phaneuf, etc. If we move Phaneuf, he'll be a LOT easier to replace than it would be to find our next Sundin/Gilmour (without making a bold move to acquire a top C prospect). May as well roll the dice IMO, and sign a guy like Boyle or Robidas as a stop-gap to eat up some minutes in the short-term on the blueline.

Kessel has about 6 prime years, Dion and Lupul are the pressing concern. They don't match the team projected development. At least with Kessel if we stacked the deck with prospects this year and they start playing in 3 years will be able to help them out for 3yrs in prime and an additional couple years in good form 5yrs. Dion and Lupul will be looking for some contender to get a cup or other.

 

[91Stammer*]

Once again Nonis without balls showing empty hands. Don't expect Shanahan to work any magic. Shanahan is from Mimico and just like 2 others he will bring negative things only to this team.

How would you know what the price is if you don't even inquire?!!

 

[91Stammer*]

Kessel has about 6 prime years, Dion and Lupul are the pressing concern. They don't match the team projected development. At least with Kessel if we stacked the deck with prospects this year and they start playing in 3 years will be able to help them out for 3yrs in prime and an additional couple years in good form 5yrs. Dion and Lupul will be looking for some contender to get a cup or other.

I believe he can stay in his prime throughout his contract. Unlike some others he doesn't do over workouts which expands his fitness to some extent to play longer than the ones who does a lot of workout and gets into injury trouble. He will be like Alfredson who can be a PPG winger as long as 36 years.

 

[Sypher04]

Leafs haven't made any particularly bold moves since Sundin left to address the #1 C position. Sure, they've drafted two centres in the 1st round (Kadri/Gauthier), they've signed a college UFA (Bozak), and they've picked up a couple of B-prospects in Colborne(now gone) and Holland.

But all of those moves had low odds of becoming a franchise Centre. Even Kadri at 7th OA, there really isn't much of a history of getting a cornerstone franchise talent at 7th OA, so expectations really should have been (and seem to be playing out as) us getting a 2nd liner out of that pick.

Top centers are obviously very difficult to acquire. But it seems pointless to burn through the prime years of Phaneuf/Kessel/Lupul/Bozak/etc and do nothing about it just because it's hard to get a top C. I'd prefer to see us trade a core veteran like Phaneuf to try and make a bold move and roll the dice on a guy like Reinhart or Bennett then to just sit around twiddling our thumbs with our current core.

We've seen a number of top pairing dman shuffle through this organization over the past decade, Kubina, Kaberle, McCabe, Beauchemin, Phaneuf, etc. If we move Phaneuf, he'll be a LOT easier to replace than it would be to find our next Sundin/Gilmour (without making a bold move to acquire a top C prospect). May as well roll the dice IMO, and sign a guy like Boyle or Robidas as a stop-gap to eat up some minutes in the short-term on the blueline.

Yup basically. You're either all in trying to find upgrades and use those prime years of your core, or you're working towards building the new core.

None of this wishy washy, happy with mediocrity sentiment that seems to overtake everything with us.

We're like the shy kid in high school. We know what we want, but we aren't prepared to put ourselves out there to get it.

 

[thewave]

I believe he can stay in his prime throughout his contract. Unlike some others he doesn't do over workouts which expands his fitness to some extent to play longer than the ones who does a lot of workout and gets into injury trouble. He will be like Alfredson who can be a PPG winger as long as 36 years.

I have to say I have thought the same and stated that about him in the past. Glad to have him, why do people wan to trade Kessel again?

 

[JEI]

I don't know why a reporter didn't ask him about moving up to a spot other than #1..like say #3 or #4? Wouldn't it cost less to move up to one of those spots? Granted the teams would need to be willing to move down.

I guess Nonis doesn't have the chips to do it (traditionally, 2nd round picks being part of the cost). On the other hand, those deals tend to materialize on the floor once the draft starts.

 

[91Stammer*]

Yup basically. You're either all in trying to find upgrades and use those prime years of your core, or you're working towards building the new core.

None of this wishy washy, happy with mediocrity sentiment that seems to overtake everything with us.

We're like the shy kid in high school. We know what we want, but we aren't prepared to put ourselves out there to get it.

Only if Burke knew Kessel was a PPG winger, he wouldn't have made that stupid trade. He believed Kessel was a PPG center, who played as center for his career, and will upgrade our weakness at center.

Even though we all knew it was just a bad trade, he wasn't afraid of making bold moves, he went up to draft boom bust Biggs, drafted Percy in 1st round and moved Schenn for JVR, Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner.

Sometimes sitting around just doesn't help. And it's about time we need that franchise center unless you believe that Kadri is the solution and can turn things around like Logan Couture.

 

[thewave]

Only if Burke knew Kessel was a PPG winger, he wouldn't have made that stupid trade. He believed Kessel was a PPG center, who played as center for his career, and will upgrade our weakness at center.

Even though we all knew it was just a bad trade, he wasn't afraid of making bold moves, he went up to draft boom bust Biggs, drafted Percy in 1st round and moved Schenn for JVR, Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner.

Sometimes sitting around just doesn't help. And it's about time we need that franchise center unless you believe that Kadri is the solution and can turn things around like Logan Couture.

Burkes body of work was good.

Kessel Lupul Gardiner JVR is far more valuable than Schenn Hamilton Seguin Beauchemin

 

[91Stammer*]

I don't know why a reporter didn't ask him about moving up to a spot other than #1..like say #3 or #4? Wouldn't it cost less to move up to one of those spots? Granted the teams would need to be willing to move down.

I guess Nonis doesn't have the chips to do it (traditionally, 2nd round picks being part of the cost). On the other hand, those deals tend to materialize on the floor once the draft starts.

We have a very promising prospect farming system, if Edmonton is wise enough to trade down, they can actually find good things from our farm. They have top line talent but not enough depth and we have more than enough depth pieces and looking for a top line talent.

Even without the 2nd rd. pick we can still provide them with good pieces in Reimer, 8th and a prospect.

 

[hotpaws]

Burkes body of work was good.

Kessel Lupul Gardiner JVR is far more valuable than Schenn Hamilton Seguin Beauchemin

Burkes body of work has left us a bottom end team spinning our wheels and there's no way the first group of players is worth more than the 2nd .

 

[ULF_55]

Sometimes sitting around just doesn't help. And it's about time we need that franchise center unless you believe that Kadri is the solution and can turn things around like Logan Couture.

Couture has 32 goals as a 21 year old. Not sure he actually had to turn things around? Couture also > PPG in his 1 AHL year.

Be nice if Leafs had a Couture so Kadri could play behind him.

 

[hotpaws]

We have a very promising prospect farming system, if Edmonton is wise enough to trade down, they can actually find good things from our farm. They have top line talent but not enough depth and we have more than enough depth pieces and looking for a top line talent.

Even without the 2nd rd. pick we can still provide them with good pieces in Reimer, 8th and a prospect.

We have a poor farm system , every freaking team has potential depth player in there system . Only in to Tor do we glorify potential bottom end prospects and act like we can pkg them up for top end players .

 

[91Stammer*]

Couture has 32 goals as a 21 year old. Not sure he actually had to turn things around? Couture also > PPG in his 1 AHL year.

Be nice if Leafs had a Couture so Kadri could play behind him.

Kadri was almost PPG at 22 in his first full season in NHL even though it was a 48 games season, I think Duchene would be a better comparison. Well whatever you like though, only if you think he has that stuff inside him you don't move up otherwise I don't see any reason not to draft another center.

 

[timlap]

Couture has 32 goals as a 21 year old. Not sure he actually had to turn things around? Couture also > PPG in his 1 AHL year.

Be nice if Leafs had a Couture so Kadri could play behind him.

I recall a time when Couture was viewed as a bust around HFBoards. We aren't exactly a patient lot, despite our constant demands that our team "build through the draft."

 

[91Stammer*]

We have a poor farm system , every freaking team has potential depth player in there system . Only in to Tor do we glorify potential bottom end prospects and act like we can pkg them up for top end players .

They get a good back up goalie who can cut Scriven's workload in 50 games a season, you can get a prospect like D'Amigo, Verhaeghe/Ashton and 8th overall. I never wanted their top end talent I am looking for their draft pick. In salary cap era you can only keep so many top end talents.

It further decreases the value of a player when he asks for a trade. Not that I think they would be better off trading that pick, it's a draft where difference between Draisaitl and Ritchie/Ehlers/Nylander isn't gigantic.

 

[hotpaws]

I recall a time when Couture was viewed as a bust around HFBoards. We aren't exactly a patient lot, despite our constant demands that our team "build through the draft."

Couture was never considered a bust and he's never had a poor season since he turned pro .

 

[timlap]

Couture was never considered a bust and he's never had a poor season since he turned pro .

I'm not saying he's ever had a bad season period. But he didn't blow people away with his next two seasons after the draft and there were certainly posters on HFBoards who considered him a wasted pick.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Interesting how everyone jumps on Nonis. It is not like you are trading hockey cards...No one on this forum knows what Tallon is asking for. At least one of you seems open to trading Kessel and Rielly for the 1st pick. Give your heads a shake. There will still be a good young player at #8 and you will still have a core to build around. No need to gut the team!

 

[McGuiresMonsters]

It's so Nonis, rumours of countless different trade scenarios and he stands pat. Nonis doesn't seem like the type of guy to make big trades unless he has the opportunity to mull it over for months or years.

 

[Bardown warrior]

The headline should read "Maple Leafs seem to be fine with being the laughing stock of the NHL"

This franchise needs a bold change.