Sportsnet: Maple Leafs must add proven defenders, move on from all-offence identity

[BrannigansLaw]

Torts read the wrong paper I guess. No one is pointing their fingers at Keefe; it Dubas the MORON who has ruined it




personally i think this is a shot at the GM who has assembled a joke of a roster

That’s just Torts being an emo idiot as usual. He’s always gotta go off the rail on someone win or lose. He picked the media this time.

I would love it if someone pressed him on what he thinks Keefe and himself know that the pundits and fans who know nothing about the game criticize the team/management for. He doesn’t know shit we don’t; our defense is ass and we’re mentally weak (especially in goal). Missing anything?

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Shooting 2% 5 on 5 in a series? They could run a significantly worse roster and likely not do that again.

Doubt we run into a worse roster in the playoffs lol. This is why the game is not played on paper.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I have always believed, and still do believe that a core of Matthews, TavaresMarner, Nylander, Rielly and Andersen is good enough to win a championship, I don't think the issues with this team are core issues.

The issues with this team are depth issues, specifically defensive depth issues.

The reality of the situation this defense was and is ONE injury away from Marincin playing, that's not a core issue that is a Kyle Dubas issue, that is because Kyle Dubas has not done a good enough job adding depth to the defense, and I know what the response will be "well he added Barrie and Ceci last summer what else do you want?"

Those guys don't count because they won't be back.

You need to take a couple of your MANY MANY MANY MANY depth forwards, Kapanen, Hyman, Kerfoot, Johnsson whoever it doesn't matter.

Take a couple depth forwards and go address your top 4.

I like Rielly Muzzin and Sandin the rest of the defense, Holl included needs to go.

 

[rumman]

That’s just Torts being an emo idiot as usual. He’s always gotta go off the rail on someone win or lose. He picked the media this time.

I would love it if someone pressed him on what he thinks Keefe and himself know that the pundits and fans who know nothing about the game criticize the team/management for. He doesn’t know shit we don’t; our defense is ass and we’re mentally weak (especially in goal). Missing anything?

gotta agree with Torts here, there were/are plenty in this very forum who thought/think the Blue Jackets couldn't keep the Leafs off the board in this series, apparently they could/can..............

 

[BrannigansLaw]

gotta agree with Torts here, there were/are plenty in this very forum who thought/think the Blue Jackets couldn't keep the Leafs off the board in this series, apparently they could/can..............

Fair but that’s not what he was saying. I’d like to hear an example of what he thinks they know that we don’t. Otherwise what’s the point of just yapping. That’s just Torts mouthing off as he always does. Surprised he didn’t try to fight the reporter after

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

Fair but that’s not what he was saying. I’d like to hear an example of what he thinks they know that we don’t. Otherwise what’s the point of just yapping. That’s just Torts mouthing off as he always does. Surprised he didn’t try to fight the reporter after

Wait, so you think you have as much knowledge about a job you've never had, as a guy who is paid millions to do this job?

So, you think your sources of information and those at the very top level of a sports sources of information are the same?

You are probably one of those guys who thinks they could have a job in the org just because you like sports.

"George: I like sports. I could do something in sports.
Jerry: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. In what capacity?
George: You know, like the general manager of a baseball team or something.
Jerry: Yeah. Well, that - that could be tough to get.
George: Well, it doesn't even have to be the general manager. Maybe I could be like, an announcer. Like a colour man. You know how I always make those interesting comments during the game.
Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. You make good comments.
George: What about that?
Jerry: Well, they tend to give those jobs to ex-ballplayers and people that are, you know, in broadcasting."

it's not like the job you have, where you just apply and get the job and get trained there and do a half ass job and float around for a few hours a day. Every single person in the NHL or professional sports is so much more dedicated to what they do on a daily basis than any of these "know it all fans" - i get you're upset but some of this is embarassing to read and assume it is adults typing on the other end.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Well major changes occurred on the blue line from last season to this one:

Gardiner, Hainsey, and Zaitsev all out .. I think we can all agree Gardiner had to go. Hainsey would have been a nice re-sign but we can't keep counting on a d-man at his age to keep up. Zaitsev was ok but on a bad long term deal.

This season was more about short term solutions to buy time for Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott's development. With Holl's emergence the Leafs really just need to focus on adding depth and another quality top 4 piece.

The Leafs looked good defensively for most of this series and I think with good health, they'll be a lot better next year with a full training camp in play.

They don't necessarily need to go big game hunting on the back end. They'll pay a premium for that defender when a solid quality piece but cost the same and have nearly the same impact.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Well major changes occurred on the blue line from last season to this one:

Gardiner, Hainsey, and Zaitsev all out .. I think we can all agree Gardiner had to go. Hainsey would have been a nice re-sign but we can't keep counting on a d-man at his age to keep up. Zaitsev was ok but on a bad long term deal.

This season was more about short term solutions to buy time for Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott's development. With Holl's emergence the Leafs really just need to focus on adding depth and another quality top 4 piece.

The Leafs looked good defensively for most of this series and I think with good health, they'll be a lot better next year with a full training camp in play.

They don't necessarily need to go big game hunting on the back end. They'll pay a premium for that defender when a solid quality piece but cost the same and have nearly the same impact.

None of those major changes matter because None of those major changes will be back.

 

[Dekes For Days]

there were/are plenty in this very forum who thought/think the Blue Jackets couldn't keep the Leafs off the board in this series, apparently they could/can..............

What some people said in here was that the defense wouldn't stop the offense. And it didn't. The offense outplayed the best defense in the league, and we got our shots and good chances and controlled play for the majority. Their goaltending outplayed the offense, and that happens sometimes over small samples, no matter what you do.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

If you can find another Muzzin type that is good at both ends of the ice that would be preferred. Liljegren should be that type of player once he settles into a role at the NHL level but if you could get another right handed option of that ilk it would definitely be beneficial.

I actually like the group way better going into next season than I did this year. Going into the season you can afford to give the younger guys more of a leash and keep Muzzin/Rielly from playing 25 minutes most nights.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Forwards are soft as hell and play like pansies and defense are AHL caliber. No kidding sportsnet.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you can find another Muzzin type that is good at both ends of the ice that would be preferred. Liljegren should be that type of player once he settles into a role at the NHL level but if you could get another right handed option of that ilk it would definitely be beneficial.

I actually like the group way better going into next season than I did this year. Going into the season you can afford to give the younger guys more of a leash and keep Muzzin/Rielly from playing 25 minutes most nights.

This team needs a David Savard, or Josh Manson or Chris Tanev or somebody. Forget giving the younger D more Lesh ir's time to fix this.

Every on defense that is not Rielly Muzzin or needs to go those are the ONLY 3 defense you keep

 

[Captain14]

It’s pretty sad when Jason Spezza and Hyman are the only players who were finishing their checks.
We turn away from every opportunity to lay a hit on an opponent.
Believe me, physical contact wears down the opponent. Watch any other game on any given night, we are the only team performing fly-bys on a regular basis.
It’s pathetic how soft this squad is.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

This team needs a David Savard, or Josh Manson or Chris Tanev or somebody. Forget giving the younger D more Lesh ir's time to fix this.

Every on defense that is not Rielly Muzzin or needs to go those are the ONLY 3 defense you keep

Savard was heavily used in the offensive zone against us, and wasn't good at all. Just because a guy doesn't put up points and hits, doesn't mean he's good defensively.

Your younger defense will likely be better than all of those options. We had the third youngest roster in the qualifiers and Matthews/Marner/Nylander are all still under 25 years old.

Patience man, patience.

 

[Eddo22]

gotta agree with Torts here, there were/are plenty in this very forum who thought/think the Blue Jackets couldn't keep the Leafs off the board in this series, apparently they could/can..............

They couldn't have if the Leafs were playing their 'A' game every game and lifted the puck when shooting and had players near the net to block the goalie's vision and put loose and rebounded pucks in the net. I still firmly believe if the Leafs wanted to and played to, they could have swept them.

 

[onlygotmygrade10]

Their top 4 offensive players make a lot of money to score goals. Getting shut out two games is 100% on them. How they played isn't relevant, they didn't get results. We can blame bad transition d or an entire lack of secondary scoring, but ultimately our highest paid players are the ones that should be most accountable.

I agree they need to improve the d, but I'm not sure at what cost. My concern is that any deal is going to be our version of the Hall for Larsson trade.

 

[TheScandal89]

I'm sure if Dubas is Gm he'll ask the Blues for Justin Faulk and Pittsburgh for Jack Johnson cause they can skate and move the puck derrr

But in all seriousness, we need 2 top 4 RD and badly. 1 has to have a two way game and the other needs to be defensive. We also need some size and grit.

Holl sucks but were likely stuck with him on the 3rd pair and his crappy contract. Hes a minimum wage player anywhere else.

 

[Tairy Greene]

This team needs a David Savard, or Josh Manson or Chris Tanev or somebody. Forget giving the younger D more Lesh ir's time to fix this.

Every on defense that is not Rielly Muzzin or needs to go those are the ONLY 3 defense you keep

Holl and Dermott are fine as 3rd pair D.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Holl and Dermott are fine as 3rd pair D.

f*** that, like I said this defense was and is ONE injury away from Marincin playing that NEEDS to changes and that means at least ESTABLISHED d man needs to be brought in

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Holl and Dermott are fine as 3rd pair D.

Holl is trash Muzzin carries him and that was clear the moment Muzzin got hurt.

Holl got exposed BAD especially but not limited to game 4

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Holl and Dermott are fine as 3rd pair D.

Holl is trash Muzzin carries him and that was clear the moment Muzzin got hurt.

Holl got exposed BAD especially but not limited to game 4

 

[Rielly4]

Holl and Dermott as your #4 and #5 is actually really good. What we need is a #2/#3 after Muzz and Rielly. Barrie was suppose to be that but was really a #6 for us.

Severson/Manson would be the ideal targets. Both can skate and defend very well and can move the puck somewhat effectively. I prefer Severson because hes a better puck mover, younger and more years of control.

 

[Notsince67]

The leafs are an interesting optimization problem. Everyone can agree that this team had a plethora of offensive talent and a gap in defensive talent. The last series seems to disprove this obvious fact because there was little effective offense evident on the scoresheet. This is obvious but obviously it is ignored to attempt to fix a problem we all know exists.
I dont think it should be ignored because the details might be relevant.
I believe it is entirely plausible that the offense was constrained to backfill the capacity gap of the defense. If true, the offense is far more capable of more production if it spent less time worrying about defensive execution. I am not saying it shouldn't worry about it...just that is should worry less. This means that a good defense would create a side benefit of improving the offense. This is relevant, because we still all agree the d needs to be improved but the debate will be at what cost of offensive capacity...not output. If the team sacrifices a player with higher offensive capacity to get dollars to improve the team, it might find itself with lower expected outcomes once the defensive constraints have been lifted.
The rational choice would be to look to establish the output capacity of players using historical data and using the lower capacity players as currency to adequately fill the defensive capacity constraints via trade.
This means, short term output per salary dollar is a less effective way of choosing who to trade.
In my books, anyone not names Matthews, Marner and Tavares are the right pool to begin looking at for trade.

 

[horner]

No?

Why are we focusing on defense in a series that the Leafs gave up very few good chances to the Jackets? Lets face it. If Andersen is the Jackets goalie, Leafs win this series easily.

They need to figure out what went wrong with the offense and why it was shut out twice in a 5 game series.

They need to move certain types of similar wingers like one of Nylander or Marner, two of Mikheyev, Johnsson, Kapanen, etc.

We need 2-3 more Hyman type wingers on the team so that when the going gets tough, they don't stop playing.

We get trapped in our own end way to often .
We waste a lot of time and energy .
Our dman are not strong enough in the puck same with our forwards.
We need a couple of dman the will make a player thing twice about going into the corner or the front of the net.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The team never fell apart defensively. They gave up 1.68 expected goals against/60 at 5v5 without Muzzin. Only the Flyers and Calgary were better

The irony of using fancy stats to explain where we are is not lost on this guy.