Sportsnet: Maple Leafs must add proven defenders, move on from all-offence identity
- Thread starter PromisedLand
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No?
Why are we focusing on defense in a series that the Leafs gave up very few good chances to the Jackets? Lets face it. If Andersen is the Jackets goalie, Leafs win this series easily.
They need to figure out what went wrong with the offense and why it was shut out twice in a 5 game series.
They need to move certain types of similar wingers like one of Nylander or Marner, two of Mikheyev, Johnsson, Kapanen, etc.
We need 2-3 more Hyman type wingers on the team so that when the going gets tough, they don't stop playing.
Why are we focusing on defense in a series that the Leafs gave up very few good chances to the Jackets? Lets face it. If Andersen is the Jackets goalie, Leafs win this series easily.
They need to figure out what went wrong with the offense and why it was shut out twice in a 5 game series.
They need to move certain types of similar wingers like one of Nylander or Marner, two of Mikheyev, Johnsson, Kapanen, etc.
We need 2-3 more Hyman type wingers on the team so that when the going gets tough, they don't stop playing.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Did you watch Leafs playing in their own zone at all?
Lol. Come on man, the Leafs were absolutely horrendous defensively.
Those “Very few good chances given up” were only because Columbus sat back and played a trap style game every single time they had the lead in the series.
It's not just about defenders either. Of course we need better defenders and depth on defence, but we need more forwards throughout the lineup who are capable of thriving in a tight checking game as well.
ChickenMcNugget
Registered User
7/10 most offensive teams are still in the playoffs.
This is biased article given the premature exit but that is what is expected. I still know that leafs have a good core of matthews, tavares, rielly, anderson and honestly making trades always carry huge risks that more often works against you than for you. I am fine with the leafs keeping an offensive identity but they ofcourse need to fill in the holes just like any other team.
What's really needs to change is the mentality and playing with effort consistently. I dont know how to change that maybe its the coach or a few bad players. Either way adding in a star defenseman at the expense of creating another hole is not going to change that.
This is biased article given the premature exit but that is what is expected. I still know that leafs have a good core of matthews, tavares, rielly, anderson and honestly making trades always carry huge risks that more often works against you than for you. I am fine with the leafs keeping an offensive identity but they ofcourse need to fill in the holes just like any other team.
What's really needs to change is the mentality and playing with effort consistently. I dont know how to change that maybe its the coach or a few bad players. Either way adding in a star defenseman at the expense of creating another hole is not going to change that.
Mess
Global Moderator
"Defense win Championships"
"Good teams are built from the goalie out through strong defense ..."
Pitaya
Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
- Dec 14, 2019
- 2,708
- 1,825
I mean that poster also thinks nobody from the 2020 draft will ever be as good as Marner
I think he says stuff for a rise out of people - I mean his name doesnt help his case
TopChedder
Registered User
- Oct 2, 2013
- 2,597
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Somebody correct me if I am wrong but what the HELL do we have to lose by just playing Rasmus and Lilly going forward? They are young and skilled and cannot by any worse than Ceci and Marincin?
We also have Mikko Lehtonen who we picked up not long ago.
What would we have to lose by just playing
Rasmus
Lilly
Lehtonen
We are already losing and the backend already is a tire fire. Why not have
Reilly
Dermott
Muzz
Rasmus
Lilly
Lehtonen
I am also kind of amazed we have not even draft lucked into a top top Dman. Hell some teams do it over and over (Tampa Canes Bruins)
We also have Mikko Lehtonen who we picked up not long ago.
What would we have to lose by just playing
Rasmus
Lilly
Lehtonen
We are already losing and the backend already is a tire fire. Why not have
Reilly
Dermott
Muzz
Rasmus
Lilly
Lehtonen
I am also kind of amazed we have not even draft lucked into a top top Dman. Hell some teams do it over and over (Tampa Canes Bruins)
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You can't win this one because people will quote Pens who did it twice with 2 generational centres in their primes ... it has occured in Stanley Cup history but twice/thrice in over 100 years in not good odds really ...
All offence sells jerseys and puts fans in the seats. Clearly thats more important to Dubas than constructing a balanced team.
Not going forward from 2020 onwards with COVID ... Fans in stands is highly unlikely in 2020/21 ... til a cure or vaccine is found this is our new normal
I still do not believe there will be a 2020/21 season
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
That would be a great D in a tank year. Leafs tried going with 3 rookies on D with McGill, Benning and Boimstruck. That did not go well.
This is the biggest wake up call ever that Dubas philosophy is'nt going to work. We lost our best defensive d man from injury (which happens in the playoffs regularly) and our team fell apart defensively. You can't rely on one player to hold you together at the seams (see McDavid in Edmonton).
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Rob Brown
Way She Goes
- Dec 17, 2009
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If we played any other team we would have been torched every night. Our defense was brutal and Freddy was actually fine for the most part.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
An overlooked narrative from the series is actually that the Leafs by most accounts were fine defensively. They limited the Jackets high danger chances. And a fair number of the Jackets goals were flukey (the game winner during game 5 for example)
It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it showed the system was effective. If/when the team gets better top four guys either via trade free agency or internal development of guys like Sandlin it will be even better.
The Leafs lost the series because their offensive guys couldn't deliver when needed, not because they were a defensive train wreck.
It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it showed the system was effective. If/when the team gets better top four guys either via trade free agency or internal development of guys like Sandlin it will be even better.
The Leafs lost the series because their offensive guys couldn't deliver when needed, not because they were a defensive train wreck.
The Podium
Registered User
An even series that was decided in a sudden death match, which has been Toronto’s kryptonite thus far, isn’t proof that the Leafs couldnt have won that series.
Defense may have beat offense, but it was a coin flip more than anything.
With that said, I agree big changes need to be made. However, I thought I’d sour on the big 4 after this series but I’ve realized how critical they are. The Leafs lost the depth and goaltending battle. The only reason the series was close was on the backs on Matthews, JT and Rielly +/- Marner.
In addition to the obvious need for a top pairing RHD, they need a 3rd line and 4th line that can contribute every time they’re on the ice. They need a 7D that isn’t AHL calibre.
Defense may have beat offense, but it was a coin flip more than anything.
With that said, I agree big changes need to be made. However, I thought I’d sour on the big 4 after this series but I’ve realized how critical they are. The Leafs lost the depth and goaltending battle. The only reason the series was close was on the backs on Matthews, JT and Rielly +/- Marner.
In addition to the obvious need for a top pairing RHD, they need a 3rd line and 4th line that can contribute every time they’re on the ice. They need a 7D that isn’t AHL calibre.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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- Sep 28, 2015
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The team never fell apart defensively. They gave up 1.68 expected goals against/60 at 5v5 without Muzzin. Only the Flyers and Calgary were better
Jmo89
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2010
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This may sound a bit simplistic but I think it's both.
They need to change their identity a bit in the top 6/9 and upgrade at least the top pairing.
Obviously CLB's strength is their defensive identity and that top pair, so I wouldn't suddenly expect Toronto to have that, but our defender never really feel dangerous defensively or offensively. Rielly does a decent job but he usually shoots wide from the point and isn't exactly a bruiser.
And then as you said, in the top 6/9 they have too many similar players. Need some more guys who function like Hyman.
Doing nothing and stagnating is the worse option going forward. In a perfect world we turn Nylander or Marner and Johnsson into a more suitable winger and a top pairing rhd. I'd personally trade Andersen as well, and that's not just in response to this series where I thought he was okay. I have many reasons for that belief but don't want to derail the thread.
Edit: I agree with the above as well. The depth failed the team more than anyone. Which is probably more of a reason they'll need to reallocate some salary.
TopChedder
Registered User
- Oct 2, 2013
- 2,597
- 2,134
But we are already not winning? If we are not winning then what do we have to lose?
Maybe swap out one of them (maybe Lilly for now) for Holl (who I thought played well)
Reilly
Dermott
Muzz
Sandin
Holl
Lehtonen
I am actually fine with Lilly as well and they eventually have to grow and become NHL D. Many teams play younger prospects and work through mistakes.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
but pens did not ice AHL calibre Defense though
- 2009 pens traded for Hal Gill
- 2nd cup they traded for Ron Hainsey (and I think Letang was injured and couldn't play but that did not impact pens' team defense, unlike the leafs - Muzzin gets hurt and we dont have a D capable of clearing the crease or playing competent positional D to get the freakin puck out of the zone)
- 3rd cup i am not really sure about their roster make up
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
The goal is to try to win. Dubas and Shanny would be risking their jobs going with those 3 rookies if it goes south.
We need 3 Muzzy's because as you stated perfectly sh*t happens to d cores and having only 1 is a strategic error
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
This is an inaccurate and biased representation. CBJ are NOT an offensive team their bread and butter is defense; they exploited toronto's defensive lapses to a T
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