Nobody said that. The difference in accumulated shooting talent value on shots between teams does not have significant effect on results over significant samples against a variety of teams and players. There's no evidence that the Leafs are only allowing Ovechkin-level shooting talent shots while other teams are facing a bunch of Marincin shots.
Sportsnet: Maple Leafs must add proven defenders, move on from all-offence identity
- Thread starter PromisedLand
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A player willing to take a suspension for the team is still more helpful to the team than Barrie and Kerfoot even if they never missed a game. We need heart, grit, and will, not more razzle dazzle.
Enough with the "but he got suspended twice" arguments. It's ridiculous and funny. I understand Dubas supporters need to do some serious rationalizing to defend his moronic moves, but come on...
You don't take a suspension for your team. A suspension hurts your team.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Speaking of body language, often when there's a slight momentum shift in a game, you see Andersen's eyes glaze over through his mask like he can see the impending doom coming. And usually it does.
How much more patience can we have with him? How many more boneheaded trades will he make? How many more wingers will he gift $11 million. Of course the core is still here, Mr "we can and we will" got bent over by them. So much so that he is unable to surround this team with anything other than trash. Meanwhile, players that we truly need and are on excellent contracts are traded away.
There is still hope for this team, but not with Dubas. He's an OHL GM in way over his head.
what are you blathering about?
a player in the pressbox is 100% useless on the ice, end of.
You take the suspension because you will stand up for your team, no matter the consequences. Otherwise known as "heart," something this team sorely lacks. Something Mr "we can and we will" has no idea about.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
And yet Kadri doing that in back to back playoff series didn't help get his team past the first round.
And yet we made the playoffs with Kadri on the team, and is the Avs' MVP thus far in the playoffs.
A Kadri in the lineup suspended for a few games is still much more valuable than the return we got for him. Again, look what he's doing for the Avs. Sure could use a player like that.
By the way, the argument "it happened twice so it will happen again" is not a smart one.
No, "he's hot for the Avs right now" is the dumb argument. you were shown his non-suspension playoff numbers here.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Kindly try to type in a more coherent and intelligent way.
If you are implying that we didn't get killed in the Kadri trade, once again that's not very smart. We traded away exactly what this team sorely lacks and needs.
No and in fact it hurt their chances significantly both times.
Kadri is talented but was often a selfish and undisciplined player here.
It's unfortunate for us it took getting traded for him to grow up. I'm satisfied with the effort the org put into him over the years developing him, and he repaid them by letting them down when it meant the most.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Yep I agree it was a good time to move him .. He didn't do well in the #3C role last year either.
That being said the return was poor for multiple reasons.
Leafsfan74
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2018
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You ever play a team sport? Imagine working your ass off against an opponent you hate, then, a teammate of yours is losing his cool, and the coach, other players are telling him "relax", "get your head on", cool down", a shift or two later, you go out, ignore the advice and get suspended...again.
Now, you are out 3 games, and leave your teammates, coach, management, ownership and fans out to dry. An open hand smack to the face. When they needed you most, you put your frustrations and rage ahead of the bigger task at hand. Your team, fights hard, short a key player and loses in 7 games, again...
How many of his teammates were glad when he got traded? I bet more than we think.
He was the longest serving Leaf, they didn't win a series with him. So the heart you speak about didn't translate to playoff success, which is all I really care about. The team now has talent up front and he was a key part of helping them succeed, and he couldn't do it when they finally had a shot to slay the dragon, after multiple chances with this franchise.
I saw him when he was drafted. When Burke went up to former GM (RIP) of Ottawa and asked him his intentions for his pick, he confirmed he was going to take Kadri and Burke, said "ok" (I think they were considering a deal, but now it didn't make sense, since Leafs had their eyes on Kadri also). Kadri is picked #7 overall. Full of confidence and a desire to succeed. All good qualities. For whatever reason, he never fully matured in Toronto. He grew, but didn't find the line, he crossed it too often.
He needed a change. He needed to be a man, moving on somewhere else, and not stuck in that "I'm an 18 year old drafted with this team" mentality. He loved being here, fans loved him too when he was in his groove. He vetoed the move to Calgary in a last ditch effort to stay. None of it matters now, he was never going to be our saviour, though he could have been a key contributer.
In the end, you simply cannot allow a player who does that to stick around. It was the one time I felt Dubas found his courage and did something controversial and maybe unpopular with some. That's leadership as a GM, don't play it too safe or meek, you go for it.
It was the right move and a necessary move in my opinion. I am willing to bet Kadri understands this. He's playing his game now, good luck to him. He was probably never going to reach that height here so let's not pretend he ever was. He's finally free from the fishbowl. Some love it, others can't handle it.
Ironically, if the Leafs had won that game 7, Kadri probably isn't traded in the off season. He works his way back, apologizes to the team and coach, let's them know he is committed to helping them, and maybe Leafs make a deep run. If he hadn't gotten suspended, he certainly would have been a strong contributor in that series going forward.
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What are you still going on about? Standing up for the team when we are getting clobbered is not being selfish. Wearing different jersey, I doubt he gets suspended for the same hit. Nonetheless, Kadri in 2 games of a series would still be a bigger factor than the return we got for him in 7.
It hasn't worked out, but far too many have tried to rewrite history here.
Leafsfan74
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No. What he should have done is skate over to him, drop his gloves and get a 5 minute fighting major, IF he was going to stand up for his teammate. See the difference? It wouldn't be ideal if it was 5 straight, but, we know that no player is going to be rag dolled, so they will punch back. At worse, he gives up two for the instigator. THAT is standing up for a teammate. Risking some personal punishment but, not punishing the team long term.
I knew Kadri had matured when I saw him earlier in the season do just that. Someone hit one of his teammates in a dirty or overly aggressive manner and dropped his teammate. Kadri skated over, lands a bunch of punches and was tossed (was at the end of the period or game). He wasn't suspended though, that's how it works. As you know, that's the irony of the NHL. It's barbaric, but, fighting is still part of the game. Dirty hits are definitely dealt with far more harshly.
THAT was what Kadri should have done against Boston if he was going to send a message. He didn't even need to give up the PK if he blocks his target, drops the gloves in unison. Or, at worse, he gives up two extra minutes. The hit was the worst response, it might have cost them the series, if not more. It cost him his career here.
You nailed some great points.
Some players just need to be traded to wake up. I believe that if the Leafs won Game 7 and Kadri comes back, he might just win the Conn Symthe. The trade was the turning point for him as it sent a message to him to mature, listen and do what the coach is asking and most importantly, understand the situation.
Players know they f** up or played a poor game. It is how they feel about that or what they plan to do next that matters.
Remember the scene in Moneyball where Brad Pitt ran into the locker room and stopped or smashed the boom box and pretty much told the team to F** off.
Somehow, I believe thats the atmosphere inside the Leafs dressing room. Which is completely unacceptable. You look at what Muz said after the season and you get a pretty good picture of whats happening inside the dressing room.
I really hope some of these players wake up and start playing for the logo and not their own names on the back.
disgruntleddave
Registered User
Watching the habs play, I think it's an issue with personal attitude. They were written off before the playoffs started and their while team played with a chip on their shoulder. They were out there every shift determined to prove people wrong.
Leafs players who use the t-word to describe the locker room (talent, ugh.. management does it too) expect to be good because they were good growing up.
Personnel is an issue, sure, but look at what Montreal did. All of a sudden their future looks like it's brighter than ours.
Leafs players who use the t-word to describe the locker room (talent, ugh.. management does it too) expect to be good because they were good growing up.
Personnel is an issue, sure, but look at what Montreal did. All of a sudden their future looks like it's brighter than ours.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. You NEVER “take a suspension for your team”, especially in the playoffs! You want Kadri on the ice, not in the press box. If a player on another team cheap shots one of our players, you drop the gloves. Or at the very least, you wait for a better time, be it during that game, next game, or next season.
I’m not a Dubas supporter. I believe he’s in over his head, and somehow has convinced Shanny he’s on the right path. However, I feel they were convinced Kadri could not be trusted to stay on the ice when it mattered the most (and I loved Kadri, had plenty of grit as well as skill!).
Dubas lost the trade big time! Of course, it went along with his way of thinking, a good offence beats a good defence. Trouble is, the proof is in the pudding. Three straight first round exits, not even qualifying for the playoffs (call it what you want, but the “play-in round” was not the start of the playoffs) this year, and two seasons (or is it three) in a row with fewer points. I just hope he doesn’t take us further down! He needs to start winning some trades, or at least breaking even!
Well seeing as how he has been the GM for what, 2 years? Maybe a little longer. No one on here knows what his plan is. If you want to throw in the towel because he slightly overpaid on his stars and made 1 bad trade, go ahead. Winning a championship is a process with a lot of luck.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
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Even if you agree Kadri had worn out his welcome here with the suspensions, the Leafs didn’t have a gun to their heads to trade him. He’s a good 2 C on most teams, an extremely valuable asset, with a great contract. Did anyone have soft D man, that you can’t rely on defensively in our end, on the Leafs off season wish list? Right handed shot, sure. We didn’t need another PP guy, we have four forwards and Morgan, all you did was push him down, Barrie redundant. You needed a good defensive D man, you still do.
Dubas acted like Kadri demanded a trade and walked out. There was no reason the Leafs couldn’t have held firm until they received a better deal. That’s what shrewd GM’s do. I said at the time, one year of Barrie was a mistake, regardless if you liked him or not. Kerfoot, a nice little player, but again is that what we needed another smallish forward who routinely loses board battles? I knew this trade would really sink in after we digested Barrie leaves for nothing and you are stuck with a dime a dozen forward for a heart and soul two way centerman.
There’s a reason the Avs are so happy with the trade, they fleeced us and Dubas owns it for creating an urgency to a trade that didn’t exist.
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You think Montreal's future is brighter than ours?
As long as Dubas continues to only believe the first part of the saying, “Offence wins games, defence wins championships”, and ignores the second part, I believe Montreal’s future is brighter than ours. Look at the trend we have been going in the past few seasons.
You can bury your head in the sand if you want, but I’m worried about this team. To me, this is a make or break offseason. It will be interesting to see if Dubas can admit his way of building a team was wrong, and start taking the necessary steps to correct it.
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