Speculation: Maple Leafs Management Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Maple Leaf]

Nonis is now a puppet

 

[egd27]

What?

The guy just got a the job and we're already touting him. He may well be the eventual successor, But Nonis just signed a 5 year extension given to him by Leiweke last summer.

Also you still need to have some one with managerial experience at the NHL level and it's something Dubas may not acquire even in the next 5 years. We've done the young rookie GM routine twice before; And if we do it again the same result could follow.

Good post.

It seems that Dubas is a good hiring, but it makes way more sense to wait and see if he is a good hire before handing over the keys to the castle. IMO that assessment should take a minimum of three years.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

In my opinion Nonis should be fired. He has thrown away picks to get players that do not resign, he has let assets walk for free and MOST IMPORTANTLY he has not looked to get the numero uno requirement of the leafs 1C and 1D

-The day he gave bozak the contract for 5 years he basically accepted a mediocre Center without looking at what bozo brings to the table especially on PP to play with a franchise talent like Kessel

-He signed Clarkson an aging players for a 7 year contract

-Gave Dion a 29 year old, slow defenceman who hasn't won anything in his entire life a seven year extension

-He has so far failed to trade Lupul, Franson

-He has advocated a coach who came out in public and said "I do not know what seems to be the problem or how to fix it" (paraphrasing)

-He has handcuffed the leafs with cap situation, it is worst since Leafs are the biggest joke in NHL

Bottom Line:
Nonis should be on his way out and should be fired!

 

[613Leafer]

I think we're still rebuilding and expectations are not that high.

We've been spending to the cap for years, have only had one 2nd rounder in the past FOUR drafts and are still missing our 2nd rounder for next year, our core players are predominently aged ~24-30 like most CURRENT contending teams, etc.

The ONLY reason we could arguably be considered "rebuilding" is that despite spending as much as anyone in the league and repeatedly trading picks for "help now", our inept management has still driven us to bottom 10 finishes in every season theyve been here except for one (lockout shortened season) leading to us getting Rielly/Nylander with relatively high picks.

If they come bottom 10 again, i hope we see some significant changes. Nonis/Carlyle gone, and guys like Lupul/Phaneuf/Bozak/etc traded away, maybe even Kessel if the trade return were good enough. Cut salary, acquire picks/prospects for the first time in forever, and retool/rebuild around our youth. Most of our core are in their primes, so if theyre not getting it done, better to move some of them for value then just sit around for years wasting their prime years away.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

who is Kasper?

Steve Kasper is the Leafs head pro scout

thanks

This interview tells you all you need to know about him: http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/...w-with-director-of-pro-scouting-steve-kasper/

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We've been spending to the cap for years, have only had one 2nd rounder in the past FOUR drafts and are still missing our 2nd rounder for next year, our core players are predominently aged ~24-30 like most CURRENT contending teams, etc.

The ONLY reason we could arguably be considered "rebuilding" is that despite spending as much as anyone in the league and repeatedly trading picks for "help now", our inept management has still driven us to bottom 10 finishes in every season theyve been here except for one (lockout shortened season) leading to us getting Rielly/Nylander with relatively high picks.

If they come bottom 10 again, i hope we see some significant changes. Nonis/Carlyle gone, and guys like Lupul/Phaneuf/Bozak/etc traded away, maybe even Kessel if the trade return were good enough. Cut salary, acquire picks/prospects for the first time in forever, and retool/rebuild around our youth. Most of our core are in their primes, so if theyre not getting it done, better to move some of them for value then just sit around for years wasting their prime years away.

Nonis miscalculated on Grabovksi, Macarthur, Bolland, Kulemin, Gleason, and got nothing in return. He has proven to be not very good at asset management. Instead of adding picks, he has traded them.

His only slam dunk good move was to sign Bozak long term to a modest contract. Other than that, the juries out on his other moves.

Nonis gone would not upset me.

 

[Mess]

Nonis miscalculated on Grabovksi, Macarthur, Bolland, Kulemin, Gleason, and got nothing in return. He has proven to be not very good at asset management. Instead of adding picks, he has traded them.

His only slam dunk good move was to sign Bozak long term to a modest contract. Other than that, the juries out on his other moves.

Nonis gone would not upset me.

Acquiring Bernier may be his saving grace and prolong the inevitable.

Bernier is the Leafs MVP and as he goes the team goes.

 

[BlueBaron]

We've been spending to the cap for years, have only had one 2nd rounder in the past FOUR drafts and are still missing our 2nd rounder for next year, our core players are predominently aged ~24-30 like most CURRENT contending teams, etc.

The ONLY reason we could arguably be considered "rebuilding" is that despite spending as much as anyone in the league and repeatedly trading picks for "help now", our inept management has still driven us to bottom 10 finishes in every season theyve been here except for one (lockout shortened season) leading to us getting Rielly/Nylander with relatively high picks.

If they come bottom 10 again, i hope we see some significant changes. Nonis/Carlyle gone, and guys like Lupul/Phaneuf/Bozak/etc traded away, maybe even Kessel if the trade return were good enough. Cut salary, acquire picks/prospects for the first time in forever, and retool/rebuild around our youth. Most of our core are in their primes, so if theyre not getting it done, better to move some of them for value then just sit around for years wasting their prime years away.

A lot of those years though were bad contracts we had traded for to acquire other assets. Some of it is simply poor management, like the Clarkson contract, too many money defensemen etc. We've also always had money on the books that wasn't playing for our team, Tucker and so on.

Still, I must admit, our salary structure does make me wonder how we are going to improve much more without moving Lupul and Clarkson.

 

[613Leafer]

A lot of those years though were bad contracts we had traded for to acquire other assets. Some of it is simply poor management, like the Clarkson contract, too many money defensemen etc. We've also always had money on the books that wasn't playing for our team, Tucker and so on.

Still, I must admit, our salary structure does make me wonder how we are going to improve much more without moving Lupul and Clarkson.

How many bad contracts did we trade for to acquire other assets?

Kessel and Phaneuf didnt come with other players bad contracts. Clarkson, Komi, Armstrong, and Connolly we signed in free agency. Lupul was a capdump but we then resigned him at a bigger contract than what he had so they clearly wanted him here at an even higher caphit than what we got him at, Liles we traded a 2nd rounder for then resigned to a longterm deal (later to be traded for Gleason and then bought out), Grabovski we traded a 2nd + prospect for (eventually given a big contract then bought out within a year), Bolland we traded three picks for, etc.

So who exactly were the bad contracts that we took on in order to acquire other assets? Lombardi is the only one I can think of (Lebda for Lombardi + Franson).

 

[Kubus]

I can't see it. Actually all the moves that have been made of late dictate that Nonis is here to stay.

First of Shanny is not a GM. He has never done the role, or been in a position like this. Yes he was an exec at the NHL level but not with a franchise. I don't expect Shanny to want to throw himself under the bus. He might want to be the big plan guy but the day to day grind I can't see him wanting to, or even being good at.

Now Dubas. This is a kid. Yes one of the the bright up and comers. But if anyone things that Shanny is going to leave this kid in charge, think again. There is no way this kid even gets a sniff at the GM position for another few years. So for the next few years we need to have a GM here.


So unless Shanny plans on firing Nonis to bring in a GM, and tell him sorry you can't bring in your own staff, then I expect Nonis to be here for a while. Sure a really horrible start to the season can change this, but I really do expect this team to be in the run for one of the playoff spots.

 

[Mess]

I can't see it. Actually all the moves that have been made of late dictate that Nonis is here to stay.

Actually it could also mean the opposite.. If you limit your GM to short term low cost transactions like this summer reclamation projects that means those contracts come off the books allowing the new GM to use that cap space differently, should a change be made.

Long term contracts would apply security at the GM position.

Since Clarkson has been signed MLSE has added both Shanny and now Dubas to effect GM decisions, which also seems to apply that Ownership is not satisfied with what they have and want other voices involved.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Acquiring Bernier may be his saving grace and prolong the inevitable.

Bernier is the Leafs MVP and as he goes the team goes.

He may be, it was at a cost, we don't have a 2015 2nd rd pick due to this trade, it will mark 3 years in a row Nonis was GM we don't hold a 2nd rd pick. LA traded Frattin and our 2nd with a conditional that was converted 3rd rd pick(pick obtained for Scrivens from EDM) for Gaborik who led LA in goals in the playoffs to a cup. This was a great trade by Lombardi, the assets Bernier returned helped LA win the Cup. Trade is already a win for LA. Columbus get our 2nd, a 3rd rd pick, and D'amigo for a player that did not fit in with them. Right now LA are the big winners, Columbus has a chance to really make out good in this trade, and Bernier he has a chance to prove this deal will benefit us also. Time will tell.

 

[ACC1224]

All GM's are on borrowed time, Nonis is no different.

He won't be fired to make room for the boy wonder for at least a few years yet. The kid is no where ready to take on that role.

 

[ACC1224]

Actually it could also mean the opposite.. If you limit your GM to short term low cost transactions like this summer reclamation projects that means those contracts come off the books allowing the new GM to use that cap space differently, should a change be made.

Long term contracts would apply security at the GM position.

Since Clarkson has been signed MLSE has added both Shanny and now Dubas to effect GM decisions, which also seems to apply that Ownership is not satisfied with what they have and want other voices involved.

Since Burke was removed a replacement was inevitable whether they signed Clarkson or not.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

All GM's are on borrowed time, Nonis is no different.

He won't be fired to make room for the boy wonder for at least a few years yet. The kid is no where ready to take on that role.

Dubas does not know the NHL, he has a lot to learn. Leafs new GM will be someone with NHL experience, either a former GM or an Assistant. Having NHL contacts is probably the biggest part of being a successful GM.

Leafs would do themselves a great service if they hired someone like Joe Niewendyk as Assistant GM. He has the experience and he knows the league. He's also a bright guy that is still young as hockey execs come.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas does not know the NHL, he has a lot to learn. Leafs new GM will be someone with NHL experience, either a former GM or an Assistant. Having NHL contacts is probably the biggest part of being a successful GM.

Leafs would do themselves a great service if they hired someone like Joe Niewendyk as Assistant GM. He has the experience and he knows the league. He's also a bright guy that is still young as hockey execs come.

I don't think Nonis is going anywhere but if he does, they will have a tough time getting a quality person to fill the role as they will view the job as Interim.

 

[thewave]

I don't think Nonis is going anywhere but if he does, they will have a tough time getting a quality person to fill the role as they will view the job as Interim.

GMs need Jobs, they take contracts that pay well...they don't care they just wan to prove they are relevant and employable.

Viewing the job as interim is crazy talk. These are GMs they get fired a lot.

 

[seanlinden]

I realize Shanny will give Nonis the benefit of an entire season before he makes his decision. But does anyone else think it's only a matter of time before he announces a new GM and ends Burke's touch on the managerial side of the team? Or do you think they work well together and he will keep him around.

I'd say yes.

With all due respect to Shanahan, he's created a cluster#### here.

A team has to be managed from the top down. A president hires a GM, a GM hires his assistants and coach, a coach hires his assistants.

Here, you've got a new president who has come in, and cut the legs out from all of the current figureheads. Fires all of Carlyle's coaches, Nonis' assistants. I'd say it's only a matter of time before he fires Nonis as well, makes Dubas GM, and we've got Peddie-JFJ all over again.

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

Many individuals put in years of being mentored and learning the ropes so that they can be NHL GMs.

It appears that Nonis put in years of being mentored and learning the ropes so that he could be Burke's sycophant.

It's kind of funny how he maintained that silent, somewhat unknown presence for years.

And now it is clear exactly why he did all he could to maintain that image.

When he opens his cakehole, he comes across as a ****ing buffoon...

 

[Kubus]

Actually it could also mean the opposite.. If you limit your GM to short term low cost transactions like this summer reclamation projects that means those contracts come off the books allowing the new GM to use that cap space differently, should a change be made.

Long term contracts would apply security at the GM position.

Since Clarkson has been signed MLSE has added both Shanny and now Dubas to effect GM decisions, which also seems to apply that Ownership is not satisfied with what they have and want other voices involved.

I'm just going to say it's a huge assumption. And i think if Nonis was the brain child, assumption again, behind the Clarkson deal, and people were unhappy about it, he would already be gone. It might have been pushed by the suits at MLSE to Nonis, and they might have figured out the best think would be is for them not to be involved in hockey operations and that is why they went after Shanny. Assumption again. And I don't think this contract has much to do with whether Nonis is in the long term plans or not.

Now on to Shanny and Dubas and why I think they are here. Shanny, finally distances the Leafs from the suits at the MLSE office, while being a hockey guy. Dubas bring in a new way to look a the game and a fresh set of eyes willing to try something new. The one think is these guys are both very green as it comes to being an exec for a NHL franchise, and that is why I think Nonis will be around for a while. I also believe Nonis is very good at the day to day task of a GM.

Right now for either Shanny or Dubas take on the GM position would be crazy. It's like betting the family money all on "00". The other option is they bring in a new GM and tell him he can't bring in his own staff. Not likely to happen. So that leaves us with one option, and that is that Nonis is in the plans to stay here.

 

[Stats01]

time will tell .....shanny is trying to give carlyle and nonis the best support team he can ,they obviously convinced shanahan that they believe in this group ,shanny is showing class by letting them put up or shut up
nonis shouldve been canned with burke ,

Time will indeed tell...but there is no denying that if this team has a terrible start or has yet another late season collapse both Nonis and Carlyle are gone. There is absolutely no way both of them survive another collapse.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think once the team fails to make the playoffs, and we will fail, Nonis and Carlyle are gone.

This is the year to fail hard, the obvious reason is McDavid, but there are actually quite a few young stud centres available.

 

[Stats01]

I'd say yes.

With all due respect to Shanahan, he's created a cluster#### here.

A team has to be managed from the top down. A president hires a GM, a GM hires his assistants and coach, a coach hires his assistants.

Here, you've got a new president who has come in, and cut the legs out from all of the current figureheads. Fires all of Carlyle's coaches, Nonis' assistants. I'd say it's only a matter of time before he fires Nonis as well, makes Dubas GM, and we've got Peddie-JFJ all over again.

He's cut Nonis and Carlyle assistants because Shanahan probably didn't want to go through a GM search and a coaching search in his first few months on the job. What a great way to get acclimated to the organization..Walk in and immediately fire the figureheads of this organization..Shanahan did the right thing by making incremental changes and putting his fingerprints on this team early on but in such a way that it doesn't force him to panic and find both a GM and a head coach while he's still trying to get used to his new job. Nonis and Carlyle are walking on egg shells right now. This team has another collapse or misses the playoffs and both of them will be looking for work next summer.

 

[Mess]

I'd say yes.

With all due respect to Shanahan, he's created a cluster#### here.

A team has to be managed from the top down. A president hires a GM, a GM hires his assistants and coach, a coach hires his assistants.

Here, you've got a new president who has come in, and cut the legs out from all of the current figureheads. Fires all of Carlyle's coaches, Nonis' assistants. I'd say it's only a matter of time before he fires Nonis as well, makes Dubas GM, and we've got Peddie-JFJ all over again.

Shanahan is strategically and methodically DeBurkenizing the Leafs.

Because he is cutting the legs out from under the previous GM hires as coach and GM that is an indication that both on are on the way out, since he isn't following normal hiring practices.

Shanny will eventually likely promote from within with his current choices as assistants taking over when Nonis and Carlyle are eventually removed.

Brendan is smart enough to understand he inherited a bottom 10 team with many issues, and he needs fall guys if the team struggles further, and is letting those accountable for the results take the hits while he tries to transform the team in his image.

 

[rrc1967]

I can't see it. Actually all the moves that have been made of late dictate that Nonis is here to stay.

First of Shanny is not a GM. He has never done the role, or been in a position like this. Yes he was an exec at the NHL level but not with a franchise. I don't expect Shanny to want to throw himself under the bus. He might want to be the big plan guy but the day to day grind I can't see him wanting to, or even being good at.

Now Dubas. This is a kid. Yes one of the the bright up and comers. But if anyone things that Shanny is going to leave this kid in charge, think again. There is no way this kid even gets a sniff at the GM position for another few years. So for the next few years we need to have a GM here.


So unless Shanny plans on firing Nonis to bring in a GM, and tell him sorry you can't bring in your own staff, then I expect Nonis to be here for a while. Sure a really horrible start to the season can change this, but I really do expect this team to be in the run for one of the playoff spots.

yes!

I question if anyone else in this thread is really thinking or just running for the newest shiny.

anyone that's been in a senior management role knows that you don't start doing other people's jobs - yours is large enough.

Shanahan's role is HUGE - without adding to it the general manager duties, add to that ZERO experience.

he's the president of a billion dollar corporation and people think he has the TIME to be a full time general manager? pass around the glue please.