News Article: Maple Leafs GM Dave Nonis talks draft, Bolland and trades

[Trapper]

If I had to generate a summary, there is a lack of consistency in the moves.

Kessel (former GM of course) was not a "patient rebuild" kind of move either, although I think Burke made moves in his tenure that indicated he was trying to "build" (especially in the later years).

I can see the argument that with Kessel they got a good piece, but its not a classic rebuild kind of move.

Further, we could argue ad-naseum that we would have been better off (or not) with the picks. But that horse has already been beat to death.

I think if the Leafs had traded the 1st in 2010 (Seguin) and the 2nd in 2010 (Knight) and that was the end of the deal people would be fine. This would have allowed us to draft Hamilton in 2011. Adding Hamilton to Kessel/Rielly would pretty much just leave us needing to obtain (through draft) a no. 1 C. Trading up this year to grab a Reinhart would pretty much have given this rebuild it's core at the key positions. Phaneuf could be moved with less stress on the board as Hamilton enters his 3rd year.

 

[Ace88*]

I think if the Leafs had traded the 1st in 2010 (Seguin) and the 2nd in 2010 (Knight) and that was the end of the deal people would be fine. This would have allowed us to draft Hamilton in 2011. Adding Hamilton to Kessel/Rielly would pretty much just leave us needing to obtain (through draft) a no. 1 C. Trading up this year to grab a Reinhart would pretty much have given this rebuild it's core at the key positions. Phaneuf could be moved with less stress on the board as Hamilton enters his 3rd year.

Except we don't have Hamilton so why bother discussing what could've been?

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Bolland, at 28, at least seems to fit the bill of what the Leafs need going forward.

 

[The Apologist]

If I had to generate a summary, there is a lack of consistency in the moves.

Kessel (former GM of course) was not a "patient rebuild" kind of move either, although I think Burke made moves in his tenure that indicated he was trying to "build" (especially in the later years).

I can see the argument that with Kessel they got a good piece, but its not a classic rebuild kind of move.

Further, we could argue ad-naseum that we would have been better off (or not) with the picks. But that horse has already been beat to death.

Agreed again. I don't think that many would argue that Burke started out with a rebuild mentality. He misjudged the team, many of us did. However, it was all rebuild from that point on and hey, if you're gonna screw up a build now move, a 21 year old future superstar is a much better way to do it.

I truly believe that Nonis thinks we have most of the pieces to build a strong team and that many of the missing pieces are on the Marlies right now. Bringing in vets here and there to help bring along the team.

The only piece I can't figure out is Clarkson. I just don't get it.

 

[The Apologist]

I think if the Leafs had traded the 1st in 2010 (Seguin) and the 2nd in 2010 (Knight) and that was the end of the deal people would be fine. This would have allowed us to draft Hamilton in 2011. Adding Hamilton to Kessel/Rielly would pretty much just leave us needing to obtain (through draft) a no. 1 C. Trading up this year to grab a Reinhart would pretty much have given this rebuild it's core at the key positions. Phaneuf could be moved with less stress on the board as Hamilton enters his 3rd year.

We need to stop thinking that every other piece would have fallen into place that way.

Without the extra first there is no Kessel, and there then may not be a Phaneuf to 'stress in the board' about trading.

That being said I am fairly convinced the only people worried about trading Phaneuf reside on these boards.

 

[masarume]

Bolland, at 28, at least seems to fit the bill of what the Leafs need going forward.

As much as I like Bolland when he's healthy, he hasn't been for a while.
In the 7 season's he's played, he only has 2 where he's played more than 75 games.

He averages 54 games over that span (I prorated the lockout season).
Especially since rumour has him demanding over 4 million, we don't need 3 #2 centers on our team.

 

[masarume]

Agreed again. I don't think that many would argue that Burke started out with a rebuild mentality. He misjudged the team, many of us did. However, it was all rebuild from that point on and hey, if you're gonna screw up a build now move, a 21 year old future superstar is a much better way to do it.

I truly believe that Nonis thinks we have most of the pieces to build a strong team and that many of the missing pieces are on the Marlies right now. Bringing in vets here and there to help bring along the team.

The only piece I can't figure out is Clarkson. I just don't get it.

I think when Burke took over the team, most Leaf fans were prepared for a LENGTHY rebuild. Most of the fans did not misjudge the team. We knew we were crap and we needed multiple pieces to build around. Not just one. It's also a stretch to assume that without Kessel, we wouldn't have went after Phaneuf.

I'm still not convinced we can win a cup with Kessel as our best player. I also don't think our previous results indicate that we are a "strong team". If our missing pieces all reside on the Marlies then either:

a) The Marlies would be finishing stronger in the AHL playoffs
and
b) We wouldn't be out of the playoffs 8 out of the last 9 years

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bolland, at 28, at least seems to fit the bill of what the Leafs need going forward.

An injury-plagued, over-paid 3rd line centre?
Exactly what the Leafs will probably do - re-sign him. That's how they roll

 

[Pholus]

I also agree that the defense was put in a situation where they were bound to fail. If you're not an elite defenseman, you are bound to get in trouble if you play long shifts under siege in your own zone. A better system and more defensively aware forwards, and I think we might view our D-men in a different light. Not sure that will include Franson though, as I find his problems are mostly due to bad decisions in neutral and offensive zone rather than being pressured into mistakes in the defensive zone.

I like this point. While he did make a couple tape-to-tape giveaway, many of his mistakes were simply bad reads and/or pinches at the offensive blueline, which led to odd man rushes and quality scoring chances/goals against.

 

[The Apologist]

I think when Burke took over the team, most Leaf fans were prepared for a LENGTHY rebuild. Most of the fans did not misjudge the team. We knew we were crap and we needed multiple pieces to build around. Not just one. It's also a stretch to assume that without Kessel, we wouldn't have went after Phaneuf.

I'm still not convinced we can win a cup with Kessel as our best player. I also don't think our previous results indicate that we are a "strong team". If our missing pieces all reside on the Marlies then either:

a) The Marlies would be finishing stronger in the AHL playoffs
and
b) We wouldn't be out of the playoffs 8 out of the last 9 years

No, MOST fans thought we had a shot at the playoffs, and at worst we were gonna be a 10-12th place team. MOST thought that Toskala would show some semblance of the Toskala we saw the previous season.

As for Phaneuf, it's not a stretch at all. Regardless, it's pointless to assume that everything would have fallen into place exactly as it did. There is no way to prove it would or wouldn't have.

As for Kessel, good for you, I disagree.

You are correct, we are not yet a strong team, which is why I said Nonis feels we has the pieces to build one. The Marlies have consistently been one of the better AHL teams, and many of their key players are draft picks of ours.

Many fans were not and still at not ready for a 'true rebuild' in the sense you are indicating, and your comments regarding our current prospects and players certainly indicate you yourself certainly are not.

 

[leafs in five]

the Leafs didn't undertake a "true rebuild" project but the on ice results of management's attempts to avoid a rebuild are pretty indistinguishable from the results of a rebuilding team, six bottom 10 finishes and all that. they just didn't have their 1st round pick for two of those seasons.

 

[leafs in five]

which makes me believe that you could rebuild in Toronto you'd just have to publicly deny that you were rebuilding.

 

[masarume]

No, MOST fans thought we had a shot at the playoffs, and at worst we were gonna be a 10-12th place team. MOST thought that Toskala would show some semblance of the Toskala we saw the previous season.

As for Phaneuf, it's not a stretch at all. Regardless, it's pointless to assume that everything would have fallen into place exactly as it did. There is no way to prove it would or wouldn't have.

As for Kessel, good for you, I disagree.

You are correct, we are not yet a strong team, which is why I said Nonis feels we has the pieces to build one. The Marlies have consistently been one of the better AHL teams, and many of their key players are draft picks of ours.

Many fans were not and still at not ready for a 'true rebuild' in the sense you are indicating, and your comments regarding our current prospects and players certainly indicate you yourself certainly are not.

There's a difference between "shot at the playoffs" and contending for a cup. If you're a fringe playoff team, you don't deal two 1st and a 2nd for a 21 year old player who only had one proven season. At that time, we had just moved on from the aftermath of our old core of Mats, Tucker, McCabe and company. I would argue that back then, the fans were ready to let go of the old core and ready for a rebuild of a new one. If we kept our picks and didn't have Kessel, our teams would've been worse and our prospects, better than Seguin and Hamilton. Imagine Hall and Landeskog. This is a different debate that's not worth getting into now.

Toskala on the other hand had never had a superb season, his save % (less a 24 start season) had never been higher than .910. He has never played more than 40 games in a season. It was a leap to assume he'd turn into a top 10 goalie.

I'm not sure where the "good for you" comment is coming from. You don't need to patronize me. Convince me instead if you think I'm wrong. Can you remember a time that the best player on a Stanley Cup winning team was in the mold of a Phil Kessel? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just simply can't.

The point of the Marlies, I will agree with you on. We've had decent success in the AHL. But our prospects are not projected to be anything other than borderline 2nd or good 3rd line players at best. Even our defense is lacking a borderline 1st pairing pairing D. We have prospects but they aren't groundbreaking by any means.

I also agree that most fans are not ready for a true rebuild at this point. That's because we missed our rebuild window 5 years ago. I'm also unsure what you mean by my comments indicate I'm not ready for a full rebuild. I've supported our players because I believe certain fans to undervalue them, but with our core staying the same, I can't see us winning a cup anytime soon. I would much rather rebuild than try to win with Lupul, Kessel, and Phaneuf.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

See I disagree, I think one of our bigger problems is that the forwards do not come back to help out. It's simple hockey really, unless you're Kessel good, there is no reason for you to be halfway to Milwaukee while Dion has the puck behind our net. I can't count the number of times I screamed 'Help him out, get up the damn wings" last season.

Good point.

Carlyle needs to find a better 'defensive structure'. That doesn't just mean the defensemen have to get better. It's all five guys.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Hey guys,

According to Craig Custance (senior NHL writer for ESPN The Magazine), Leo Komarov and Peter Mueller are returning to NHL this year. Leo Komarov and the Toronto Maple Leafs are still talking.

I hope that the Toronto Maple Leafs don't pay Leo Komarov more than $2 million per year on a multi-year contract. He is just a better than average third line checking winger and agitator. Peter Mueller was drafted 8th overall by the Phoenix Coyotes in the 2006 NHL Entry Draft. He is a 25 year old hockey player who can play center or the wing. Mueller is 6 feet and 2 inches tall and weighs about 209 pounds. I wonder if the Toronto Maple Leafs would be interested in signing Peter Mueller this summer once Nazem Kadri is traded to another team.

https://twitter.com/CraigCustance/status/480345398733598720

Craig Custance‏

@CraigCustance

A couple of interesting free agent options returning to NHL this year - Leo Komarov & Peter Mueller. Mueller led Swiss league in goals.

Chris Barnard

‏@cmeb90210

@CraigCustance has anyone talked to them?

Craig Custance

‏@CraigCustance

@cmeb90210 Komarov and Leafs still talking. Doesn't hit the market until July 1. Not sure on Mueller.

6:44 AM - 21 Jun 2014

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Can you remember a time that the best player on a Stanley Cup winning team was in the mold of a Phil Kessel? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just simply can't.

yea, he's called Patrick Kane.

 

[DaveT83*]

Re-Sign Phaneuf
Re-Sign Kessel
Re-Sign Bozak
Sign Clarkson
Re-Sign Franson
Re-Sign Bolland

Were operating as though its integral to keep this winning team together. Then you're reminded that they are arguably the worst team in the NHL post lockout.

Its ****ing mind boggling that anyone in their right mind would want to continue even further down this horrible nightmare of a hockey club.

 

[rdawg1234]

Hey guys,

According to Craig Custance (senior NHL writer for ESPN The Magazine), Leo Komarov and Peter Mueller are returning to NHL this year. Leo Komarov and the Toronto Maple Leafs are still talking.

I hope that the Toronto Maple Leafs don't pay Leo Komarov more than $2 million per year on a multi-year contract. He is just a better than average third line checking winger and agitator. Peter Mueller was drafted 8th overall by the Phoenix Coyotes in the 2006 NHL Entry Draft. He is a 25 year old hockey player who can play center or the wing. Mueller is 6 feet and 2 inches tall and weighs about 209 pounds. I wonder if the Toronto Maple Leafs would be interested in signing Peter Mueller this summer once Nazem Kadri is traded to another team.

https://twitter.com/CraigCustance/status/480345398733598720

I dont think Komarov is staying based on what Nonis said, it sounds like he wants too much money.

I'd be very interested in giving Mueller a PTO and maybe 1m contract like raymond, he definitely has skill just struggled with injuries. He seems better now.

 

[rdawg1234]

yea, he's called Patrick Kane.

And Gaborik(had like 15 goals in the playoffs this season)

And Kovalchuk 2 seasons ago if you count a finals appearance.

Numerous ways to make the final, a guy like Kessel is very useful, just need the proper supporting cast(and not a bunch of equally soft but lesser skilled forwards).

 

[Schennsation]

yea, he's called Patrick Kane.

Kessel is not Patrick Kane the comparison is soo silly.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Kessel is not Patrick Kane the comparison is soo silly.

yea you're right, Kessel was much better in the Olympics

 

[Havoc]

Kessel is not Patrick Kane the comparison is soo silly.

Yet you probably can't give a reasonable argument as to why it's silly if you compare them irrespective of their current teams.

Please tell us why Kane is a god compared to Kessel.

 

[hockeywiz542]

I'd be very interested in giving Mueller a PTO and maybe 1m contract like raymond, he definitely has skill just struggled with injuries. He seems better now.

According to Wikipedia, Peter Mueller suffered a concussion in an Avalanche regular season game against San Jose late in the 2010 season. He suffered it as a result of a hard check by former Avalanche defenseman, Rob Blake. He suffered another concussion in the last week of the 2010–11 preseason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mueller_(ice_hockey)

He suffered a concussion in an Avalanche regular season game against San Jose late in the 2010 season. He suffered it as a result of a hard check by former Avalanche defenseman, Rob Blake. He suffered another concussion in the last week of the 2010–11 preseason and was put on injured reserve.

 

[Purity*]

Kessel is not Patrick Kane the comparison is soo silly.

This is actually considered one of the most even comparisons around here. I'm pretty confident Kessel would tear it up on the Hawks.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

For gods sake Nonis use your head and sign LEO KOMAROV.