Friedman: Maple Leafs deadline approach changing, now searching for both scorer and D man.

[StlBill]

He is scheduled to be re evaluated in 6 weeks from when he was injured. That's the normal timeline and that's the information that was released when he was placed on IR. That puts it mid Feburary and we will no more then. Now you are saying he is likely back early February? So let me get this straight. The 6 weeks of recovery time is now 4 weeks and he is back on the the ice playing at 100%? This is not rocket science. A broken foot is not good and he could have lingering issues from it. I get it, you want him to heal quickly so you can get the best return. I recall him finishing the game so how severe is it? You're going to say it was not serious at all right? I won't be surprised

"Most fractures heal without any problems in about six weeks. However, it may take three to six months for your symptoms to settle completely – these can include pain or discomfort, stiffness, decreased strength, and swelling"

"Can you walk on a broken foot? For most foot fractures, you will need to avoid full weight bearing for at least six to eight weeks to allow the fracture to heal. During this time, your foot will be placed in a boot or cast and you will need to use crutches or a walker to get around"

It’s been 10 days since he took the shot off the foot, but go ahead and keep digging in on your silly point about his diminished value.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'm not commenting on the price tag, or whether the Maple Leafs should target him.

All I am saying is that a broken foot in January will in no way, shape or form effect his value for a team looking at adding him as a playoff piece and I don't think it will hurt his value at all. I can't imagine why it would.

Before he suffered a broken foot is when it was reported what the Blues would have wanted for him in a trade. His injury has nothing to do with it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s been 10 days since he took the shot off the foot, but go ahead and keep digging in on your silly point about his diminished value.

Yes, I know it's been a few days already. I didn't say it was yesterday? When he was placed on IR, the news that came out was he was to be re evaluated in 6 weeks. His last game was Dec 31st right? 6 weeks puts it at mid Feb. That may or may not mean he plays at that point. It really depends on how it heals and if he has any discomfort.

It's bad timing no matter what you or anyone tries to say. ROR was a very effective center for many years now. This season has not been his best and then he got a broken foot. Any everyone thinks none of this affects his trade value? That's comical

 

[Voight]

Dude, just stop perpetuating your same tone deaf point about the “supposed” elevated value of Monahan vs ROR. You’re also obsessing about his broken foot to try and justify some point. Nobody cares.

Local reports have ROR likely back in early February.

Not to mention ROR blows Monahan out of the water in every single aspect.

 

[FerrisRox]

Before he suffered a broken foot is when it was reported what the Blues would have wanted for him in a trade. His injury has nothing to do with it.

I agree with you, but as I'm sure you have noticed in this thread there is one rather hysterical poster who is trying to put forth the notion that O'Reilly is now tarnished goods and that his broken foot has somehow changed the landscape for teams seeking a centre at the deadline.

 

[ACC1224]

Do we think Tom Wilson would be a possible trade for the leafs at the deadline. And what would he cost?

Too good to be true, be very surprised if he were to be available.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I agree with you, but as I'm sure you have noticed in this thread there is one rather hysterical poster who is trying to put forth the notion that O'Reilly is now tarnished goods and that his broken foot has somehow changed the landscape for teams seeking a centre at the deadline.

If the Blues want to trade O'Reilly I'm sure some playoff team will want him. I think injury or not he's not worth at least one or multiple 1st round picks that the Blues would want in return for him.

 

[Bellzy]

Too good to be true, be very surprised if he were to be available.

But he would be a perfect fit. I’d send knies and a 2nd over. Maybe a 1st as well for retention.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Too good to be true, be very surprised if he were to be available.

I doubt he's available and if by some small chance Toronto traded for him, watch him get suspended in the playoffs, and it be just like Nazem Kadri all over again in 2018 and 2019.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why casue they are right like.me and you are not ???
Did Mike Johnson bully you as a minor hockey player?

LOL

This kind of nonsense might impress some of your buddies during grade 2 recess, but that's about it. Also, I suggest you look up the meaning of the word "casue", I think you're in for a surprise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Again, you are missing the point.

I know he didn't sit tight. And I'm saying he won't sit tight at the deadline, either.

It's the poster I was responding to who was suggesting that the Leafs should *not* make any big moves at the deadline and would be better served to wait until next year when he claims the Leafs odds of winning the Cup will be better because Boston will be older.

Try to keep up, because you are arguing with me while simultaneously agreeing with what I'm saying.

You're oversimplifying what I said. Yes Boston will likely not be quite the powerhouse they seem to be ATM but that's far from the whole story.

Toronto's path to the cup likely involves beating the teams that are currently #1, #2 and #3 in the standings, and to even get a shot at them, they first have to beat TB which is another very strong team. I would also say that teams like TB typically don't GAF about the regular season, but you best believe that they will be ready to play their best when the playoffs start, so their true strength as a team is probably a fair bit higher than their place in the standings today would suggest.

IMHO, high priced rentals only make sense when you think that that one missing piece has an excellent chance of putting you over the top and that is simply not the case here. Maybe it will be more likely next year, maybe not, but it's definitely not the case as of right now.

 

[Rob Brown]

Again, you are missing the point.

I know he didn't sit tight. And I'm saying he won't sit tight at the deadline, either.

It's the poster I was responding to who was suggesting that the Leafs should *not* make any big moves at the deadline and would be better served to wait until next year when he claims the Leafs odds of winning the Cup will be better because Boston will be older.

Try to keep up, because you are arguing with me while simultaneously agreeing with what I'm saying.

You have a pretty warped sense of things if you think I'm arguing with you, but I guess you can't read tone here.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You're oversimplifying what I said. Yes Boston will likely not be quite the powerhouse they seem to be ATM but that's far from the whole story.

Toronto's path to the cup likely involves beating the teams that are currently #1, #2 and #3 in the standings, and to even get a shot at them, they first have to beat TB which is another very strong team. I would also say that teams like TB typically don't GAF about the regular season, but you best believe that they will be ready to play their best when the playoffs start, so their true strength as a team is probably a fair bit higher than their place in the standings today would suggest.

IMHO, high priced rentals only make sense when you think that that one missing piece has an excellent chance of putting you over the top and that is simply not the case here. Maybe it will be more likely next year, maybe not, but it's definitely not the case as of right now.

I mean this team is tied for #2 in the entire league I'm not really sure what more you want to see before the big move makes sense.

Do they have to be #1? If so then only Boston should be making moves.

 

[TimeZone]

Ok let's recap. Iam not here to embarrass you but rather educate.
The player who wish to remove from the Leafs second like was very good last night. 3 points, plus player was a difference maker. The player youbwamt to replace him with JVR was horrendous. Big 0s and a minus 2 ..

The D who intold you was underrated was easily the best leafs D and TSN agreed. He was smart played with size and speed amd scored his first NHL goal while gettikg 2 points and aplus rating

A you see offense flows freely. The TSN analysts agreed with me that the goaltending was set and Dregger agreed the leafs will pursue a D ,(shutdown type) like said.

Last night was a showcase for everything you said that was inaccurate , i hope you took some time to review


Leafs will prioritize a third line guy and a net front D....
The third line guy will be able to.move up and down if needed . The D will fill some mid spot mins.
They better hope TIMMONS keeps his play up as he was the leafs best D against Philly

You certainly hold a high, if not completely delusional opinion of your own awful takes, it's gotten to the point where's it's actually tough to read your takes. They're incredibly shortsighted, inaccurate to the point where again, it's just painful to read.

Player A is on a 65 point pace, has scored at a 24 goal pace for for 11 straight Seasons and has eclipsed 30 goals twice in his career, he's playing on a bottom 3 team in the Eastern Conference with Joe Schmo

Player B is on a career high 48 point pace, has never eclipsed 16 goals or 35 points in his NHL career(less points than player A's career high in goals), plays with two All-Star talents, one of which has played at a 98+ point pace over the last 3 Seasons on the second ranked team in the National Hockey League.

Player B putting up 3 points en route to his team demolishing player A's bottom feeding squad does not erase a career worth of production. Player A is the superior player to player B, the same way Mr. Connor McDavid is a vastly superior player to one Evan Rodriguez who outproduced him on Saturday night en route to his team winning. We know this, because we have a careers worth of sample size, you attempting to utilize a single 60 minute regular season game in an attempt to erase a decade + worth of production is cringeworthy and painful to read, have some self respect, you know you're wrong, and if you didn't, now you certainly do.

"The player I told you was underrated" what are you even talking about? I and every other Leaf fan who watch games are well aware Timmins has been good in his limited sample size for Toronto. He just hasn't played the games or minutes to be labeled as their second best Defenseman this Season, he literally has 12 games played, 1 career NHL goal. We all wish for Timmins to continue his hot streak, but he's been averaging around 16 minutes a night this Season with Toronto, those are nowhere near top pairing minutes.

All offenses have seemingly been "flowing freely" playing against the Flyers, they've given up the second most goals in the entire Eastern conference, I wouldn't celebrate too much regarding the Leafs beating up on a bottom feeder, it's already in the rare view mirror.

Nobody has disputed the Leafs will pursue a Defensneman, I've stated that Defenseman will be a depth Defenseman with Sandin, Lilejegren and Giordano stepping up and playing fantastic Hockey.

"TSN agreed with me that the goaltending is set" Well, that's certainly bold of you, I thought for sure they were going to make a deal for Fleury after just acquiring/signing two new goaltenders in the offseason who currently have them in the top 5 in GAA in the entire league halfway through the Season. Thanks for the take, have you thought about becoming an analyst yourself? This is some pretty groundbreaking stuff.

 

[TimeZone]

There's already been a few in this thread since you posted this.
He's not awful by any measure, including his numbers, underlying numbers or the eye test. He's simple but effective.



Amazing, Reilly and Holl are so terrible, yet the Leafs have been mostly stellar this year defensively with those two leading the team in minutes per game. How's that work?

Holl's underlying numbers are indeed awful for a top pairing Defenseman, he's a third pairing guy being played well over his head, and yes indeed, it shows in more than the underlying numbers, but the eye test as well. The vast majority of Maple Leaf fans would concur with this, I'm about sure of it.

Morgan Rielly has quite literally been injured for 15 games this Season, the Leafs were arguably playing their best defensive Hockey in years during this time period, they've most certainly had more hiccups since his return giving up a whopping 5+ goals in 3 of the 7 games since he returned to the lineup, something that didn't occur in a single game during Rielly's month an a half long, 15 game absence.

Pay attention.

 

[TimeZone]

You can dislike it but still the reality. Keefe using Holl as his #1 shutdown and between you and keefe, i think keefe having a lot more credibility to evaluate what a player can bring to the game

They are different way to create goal, you can have 0 point and help your team to score... by a good forechecking, by a defensive play who allowed your team to counter attack or whatever...the fact he didn't scored doesn't mean he didn't made great thing. He made 2 great pass to jarnkrok and timmins after slow down the game and help with a good forecheck who creates jt... 2 assist 3 play, no goal scored but had a huge part of every of those goal scored

Ah the classic argument from authority, "Well he's an NHL coach, so he's gotta be right" no, NHL coaches are not immune to making incorrect decisions, we literally see it all the time and no, I'm not disqualified from having a differing opinion to an NHL coach. I don't need to be a meteorologist to tell you it's' raining outside and I don't need to have an opinion regarding a players place in the lineup, this is literally a discussion forum.

 

[gritdash60]

Matthews and Marner for Tage Thompson and Rasmus Dahlin, easy hockey trade.

 

[TimeZone]

You got schooled and not even by me ...the leafs did it for you ....how that feel? LOL

LOL let's trade for JVR and replace our current winger is had been better and is better on both ends of the ice ..
LOL..

Let's turn a blind eye to best leafs D who has been Timmons ...who was better than the rest you mentioned...

Hmmm pretend dubas isn't looking for a playoff upgrade cause sparkles says they need a winger LOL...

How many goals have the leafs scored in the last 3 games ??? Above league average? Wait how many have they let in?

Sometime Hockey aas alot of other things is just that easy ....

I look forward to schooling you more but these predicted lessons won't be free..

1. JVR is better than Calle Jarkronk, he literally has scored more goals in a single Season than Calle Jarkronk has ever produced points in a singular NHL Season, move on, this one isn't close.

2. Nobody has suggested turning a blind eye to Timmins, who's name you to continue to misspell, I've simply stated he hasn't been their second best Defenseman this Season, which he hasn't been. He's been good, but we're talking about a 12 game sample size where he's average 16 minutes a night, I'm not ready to bet on him sustaining this current pace, especially with his extremely concerning concussion history. I'd love for you to share where I suggested turning a blind eye to Timmins, I'm waiting for it, thanks.

3. "Pretend Dubas isn't looking for a playoff upgrade?" This one just has me baffled, what?

What does a 3 game sample size have to do with anything? We have 41 games played this Season and Toronto is top 5 in GAA, and is once again producing top 10 in goals per game(tied for 7th), we've known they can produce in the Regular Season, we've seen them do this year after year after year.

What have we also seen year after year after year? Their production drying up and shitting the bed when the series is on the line, which is all that matters at the end of the day.

I don't even know what you're attempting to argue at this point, you're just throwing strawmans at the wall in a desperate attempt to misrepresent my stance, and it's quite literally failing miserably, I'm not going to defend a stance I don't have, do better Cathy Newman.

You can walk a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

 

[Jerkbait]

1. JVR is better than Calle Jarkronk, he literally has scored more goals in a single Season than Calle Jarkronk has ever produced points in a singular NHL Season, move on, this one isn't close.

2. Nobody has suggested turning a blind eye to Timmins, who's name you to continue to misspell, I've simply stated he hasn't been their second best Defenseman this Season, which he hasn't been. He's been good, but we're talking about a 12 game sample size where he's average 16 minutes a night, I'm not ready to bet on him sustaining this current pace, especially with his extremely concerning concussion history.

3. "Pretend Dubas isn't looking for a playoff upgrade?" This one just has me baffled, what?

What does a 3 game sample size have to do with anything? We have 41 games played this Season and Toronto is top 5 in GAA, and is once again producing top 10 in goals per game(tied for 7th), we've known they can produce in the Regular Season, we've seen them do this year after year after year.

What have we also seen year after year after year? Their production drying up and shitting the bed when the series is on the line, which is all that matters at the end of the day.

I don't even know what you're attempting to argue at this points, you're just throwing strawmans at the wall in a desperate atempt to misrepresent my stance, and it's quite literally failing miserably, I'm not going to defend a stance I don't have

You can walk a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. That's on you, Cathy Newman.

The ability to keep typing words doesn't make you any closer to being an insider or an analyst...or even understanding hockey....lick your wounds...enjoy Timmons first goal be thankful the leafs will get a D and enjoy watching Jar fit right in and JVR being overpaid slow and stuck in Philly......
Iam.not here to offend you, but the proposal of JVR to leafs may be the worst proposal on this forum in the last 12 months....maybe dubas buys your bananas amd sends Nylander back

 

[TimeZone]

The ability to keep typing words doesn't make you any closer to being an insider or an analyst...or even understanding hockey....lick your wounds...enjoy Timmons first goal be thankful the leafs will get a D and enjoy watching Jar fit right in and JVR being overpaid slow and stuck in Philly......
Iam.not here to offend you, but the proposal of JVR to leafs may be the worst proposal on this forum in the last 12 months....maybe dubas buys your bananas amd sends Nylander back

Thanks for coming out, next time at least try to muster up something that makes a smidgen of sense.

"TSN agreed with me that the goaltending is set"

Quality, groundbreaking stuff, indeed.

We're done here.

 

[thusk]

Holl's underlying numbers are indeed awful for a top pairing Defenseman, he's a third pairing guy being played well over his head, and yes indeed, it shows in more than the underlying numbers, but the eye test as well. The vast majority of Maple Leaf fans would concur with this, I'm about sure of it.

Morgan Rielly has quite literally been injured for 15 games this Season, the Leafs were arguably playing their best defensive Hockey in years during this time period, they've most certainly had more hiccups since his return giving up a whopping 5+ goals in 3 of the 7 games since he returned to the lineup, something that didn't occur in a single game during Rielly's month an a half long, 15 game absence.

Pay attention.

1-During rielly 15 game absence :GAx 2.76
Since he came back leafs : 2.69

So hes not the reason

2- so tell me why leafs had been that good defensivly this season with Holl who was playing shutdown #1 D role? If he was so trash, leafs should have got trash defensive stats because he was playing the biggest matchup, biggest defensive situation, the most on PK...so why leafs defensive stats have been so good ? Thats doesn't make sense at all

 

[Jerkbait]

Thanks for coming out, next time at least try to muster up something that makes a smidgen of sense.

"TSN agreed with me that the goaltending is set"

Quality, groundbreaking stuff, indeed.

We're done here.

View attachment 632772

Oh sparkles....these lessons are gonna cost you moving forward but rest assured I'll be there to educate...
JVR to leafs ...all is right in Toronto...watch out Boston tampa Carolina...JVR IS COMIMG

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ahhh sparkles ,did you get educated beyond your x box ??? You were wrong, got proven wrong and didn't like it ..stick to the pee wee division , that way those nasty hockey analysts from TSN can hurt you anymore....they didn't agree with you so they must be overpaid and there for comic relief and surely you must be right ......the Gary sparkles era has begun on TSN 4 , watch out Jamie , BoB, Jeff LOL

Oh sparkles....these lessons are gonna cost you moving forward but rest assured I'll be there to educate...
JVR to leafs ...all is right in Toronto...watch out Boston tampa Carolina...JVR IS COMIMG

You can't spell and you don't know how to use punctuation. You're probably going to need to get past grade two before charging anyone for lessons.

 

[Jerkbait]

You can't spell and you don't know how to use punctuation. You're probably going to need to get past grade two before charging anyone for lessons.

Yours will be free for the next few months ...trust me on that sparkles ️

 

[TimeZone]

1-During rielly 15 game absence :GAx 2.76
Since he came back leafs : 2.69

So hes not the reason

2- so tell me why leafs had been that good defensivly this season with Holl who was playing shutdown #1 D role? If he was so trash, leafs should have got trash defensive stats because he was playing the biggest matchup, biggest defensive situation, the most on PK...so why leafs defensive stats have been so good ? Thats doesn't make sense at all

1. Actual goals against is a better indicator than XGA, though I am curious where you got that sample size from so rapidly, can you share a source? This isn't even bringing up that they got raked by 5+ goals by 3 mediocre, to bad teams, the best of the bunch being Seattle, with St. Louis and Arizona of all teams dealing the other two humiliating defeats.

2. Morgan Rielly has lead the Maple Leafs numerous times over the course of the last 5 years in regards to XGA/60, I'm not sure that's the route you wish to go down if you're wishing to sell Rielly as a quality Defensive Defenseman, because he's not.

3. The main reason? Murray and Samsonov being much, much better than expected, and unfortunately playing what is likely to be unsustainable hockey, but it certainly helps when you have young 20 somethings step up and play a significant role as well. Holl averages around the same minutes per game as Brodie, both have been substationally worse than Mark Giordano this Season, who's been the Maple Leafs best D. I would Liljegren after Gio as our second best D this Season, but the reality is none of these guys have been playing an absurd amount of minutes, they're all averaging around 21 minutes or less, it's been pretty balanced throughout the top 4 in particular.