Management vs. coaching

[Heaton]

You have to look at the coach's performance based on the roster he has and what your expectations are. Maybe Holland believes he has a cup roster though probably he doesn't. However I am pretty sure he didn't expect to have the worst offence in 40 years. If you have a coach that can't get his roster to perform up to their capabilities you can't measure accurately what your potential is. I don't believe Blashill has gotten the potential out of this roster. Unless you believe this is the worst roster in 40 years you would have to agree. If you do believe it is the worst roster in 40 years then I don't know what to tell you.

I think you continuously overlook the fact that this team is in the same or better spot as last year. When we had a better coach and better players overall (Datsyuk, Z, and Kronwall being younger meant the team was better). This team has a worse offense because we have a lesser coach and a worse team. Holland firing Blashill right now and bringing in another guy won't change anything, the problem is the players and it has been.

Just do me a favor, if this team is so much worse than last year and so much worse than years previous, why did they struggle last season? And the season before making the playoffs? Sorry man, but you're trying to show something different this year that is exactly the same as a few years previous. The offense is worse, but the team is worse.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I think it would be disingenuous for Holland to fire the coaching staff prior to upgrading the team. This team has worse personnel than last year overall. Blashill may not be the right guy for the team, but this team wasn't good enough with the 'best' coach in the NHL, so it sure as hell wouldn't be good enough for a rookie head coach.

Flawed premise, because you're blaming bad current seasons by players on their talent level.

The team added Larkin, has Mrazek for a full year, and added Green. The only guy they don't have now that they had for 50+ last year is Weiss.

I mean, if you want to carve out an island that stands for those roster changes end up with the team having WORSE personnel... enh. Not a very compelling case.

I think the personnel on the team is really good, but guys like Datsyuk and Kronwall and Tatar and Nyquist and Shehean and Helm just aren't playing as well this year as they did last year... for a variety of reasons including injury, system, trend, age, and whatnot.

People kept buffeting me about the head and shoulders with how Nyquist was a 30+ goal guy and Sheahan had 20+ goal upside. Literally nobody could have possibly thought that Datsyuk, injury or not, would be on a pace to score 15 whopping goals over 82 games. Mrazek is an exponential improvement in net over Howard last year.

What Detroit's doing right now... that's what significant changes in the way a team does stuff looks like. Offense looks clunky, guys aren't spaced, PP is different... all symptoms of a team transitioning it's style.

 

[Ezekial]

Flawed premise, because you're blaming bad current seasons by players on their talent level.

The team added Larkin, has Mrazek for a full year, and added Green. The only guy they don't have now that they had for 50+ last year is Weiss.

I mean, if you want to carve out an island that stands for those roster changes end up with the team having WORSE personnel... enh. Not a very compelling case.

I think the personnel on the team is really good, but guys like Datsyuk and Kronwall and Tatar and Nyquist and Shehean and Helm just aren't playing as well this year as they did last year... for a variety of reasons including injury, system, trend, age, and whatnot.

People kept buffeting me about the head and shoulders with how Nyquist was a 30+ goal guy and Sheahan had 20+ goal upside. Literally nobody could have possibly thought that Datsyuk, injury or not, would be on a pace to score 15 whopping goals over 82 games. Mrazek is an exponential improvement in net over Howard last year.

What Detroit's doing right now... that's what significant changes in the way a team does stuff looks like. Offense looks clunky, guys aren't spaced, PP is different... all symptoms of a team transitioning it's style.

Howard was awesome the first half of last year. Not that I disagree, but c'mon the dude was great until the break.

 

[Heaton]

Players get old quick, that's what happens and players like Nyquist and Tatar suffer. That's why the personnel is worse, Larkin being a ****ing stud as a rookie isn't making up for Datsyuk, Z and Kronwall taking multiple steps back.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Players get old quick, that's what happens and players like Nyquist and Tatar suffer.

Like I said, you're blaming players having bad years on a 'personnel' issue, which is why I'm unconvinced of the efficacy of the argument. Were you citing D and Z not being around as a point that limited Nyquist's production in 13-14? Unlikely. (edit: come on guys, we can't even use the r-word in it's correct context? )

Some of the more productive players from last year are having inferior seasons this year.

That's why the personnel is worse, Larkin being a ****ing stud as a rookie isn't making up for Datsyuk, Z and Kronwall taking multiple steps back.

Again, your premise is flawed. A) Nobody was saying D and Z and Kronwall were going to take multiple steps back to start the year. Not a personnel issue, a play issue. B) Z hasn't taken multiple steps back over last year anyway. C) Kronwall's injury isn't a personnel issue. D) what exactly are you guys talking about with regards to the offense, anyway?

Through 49 games last year the Wings had 144 goals overall, 44 on the PP.

Through 49 games this year the Wings have 128 goals overall, 27 on the PP.

The whole difference in scoring between last year and this year is on the PP. Their 5 on 5 offense is the same and that includes getting bleep for production from D, Kronwall, Sheahan, Helm and declines of note from Tatar and Nyquist.

Personnel's fine. Some major contributors are making dooky's in their pants this year.

 

[obey86]

3, 3, and 4 goals the last 3 games. WOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[Actual Thought*]

Players get old quick, that's what happens and players like Nyquist and Tatar suffer. That's why the personnel is worse, Larkin being a ****ing stud as a rookie isn't making up for Datsyuk, Z and Kronwall taking multiple steps back.

9 months didn't suddenly sap all the ability out of 3 different players of different ages simultaneously. Think about how silly that assumption is.

This roster is not worse than last year. "The Process" is ****ing flawed.

The biggest change for this team as a whole isn't 3 players being 9 months older. The biggest change is the coach followed by the addition of Mrazek, Larkin, Green, and Richards in that order.

Kronwall has been hurt. I will give you that but that's an injury not father time suddenly turning him into dust.

The team isn't where it was last year.
They have given up just as many goals despite better goal tending.
They have scored A LOT less goals despite the addition of a stud rookie and a PP specialist right handed puck moving defenseman.
They have won fewer games.

Name one player that was with the team all last season that is better this season. There aren't any. It isn't at all a compelling argument to say that Pav, Z and Kronner being 9 months older made every player regress. It defies logic.

 

[Chance on Chance]

9 months didn't suddenly sap all the ability out of 3 different players of different ages simultaneously. Think about how silly that assumption is.

This roster is not worse than last year. "The Process" is ****ing flawed.

The biggest change for this team as a whole isn't 3 players being 9 months older. The biggest change is the coach followed by the addition of Mrazek, Larkin, Green, and Richards in that order.

Kronwall has been hurt. I will give you that but that's an injury not father time suddenly turning him into dust.

The team isn't where it was last year.
They have given up just as many goals despite better goal tending.
They have scored A LOT less goals despite the addition of a stud rookie and a PP specialist right handed puck moving defenseman.
They have won fewer games.

Name one player that was with the team all last season that is better this season. There aren't any. It isn't at all a compelling argument to say that Pav, Z and Kronner being 9 months older made every player regress. It defies logic.

A new coach didnt suddenly sap all the ability out of 10 different players of different ages simultaneously. Think about how silly that assumption is.

 

[Actual Thought*]

5 points out of the division lead with 36 (35.5) games left is competing for the division.


It's gonna be great when Blash lasts a minimum of 2 full seasons before KH even considers his job security.

3 points above the 2nd wildcard is competing for the wild card.
Particularly when
A) you are the lowest scoring team in the playoff picture.
B)you have a negative goals differential unlike every other playoff team.
C)You can't win a game at home.

I am not suggesting that Holland fire Blashill this year. I am suggesting that he will be fired after he is given his 2 years and he fails. Chances are we won't have a coach nearly as good as Babcock for many, many years. Losing him was a massive blow to the franchise.

 

[Actual Thought*]

A new coach didnt suddenly sap all the ability out of 10 different players of different ages simultaneously. Think about how silly that assumption is.

Nope. That would be a very silly assumption. They are all still quite capable. The new coach just suddenly fails to put them in a position to succeed.

 

[odin1981]

3 points above the 2nd wildcard is competing for the wild card.
Particularly when
A) you are the lowest scoring team in the playoff picture.
B)you have a negative goals differential unlike every other playoff team.
C)You can't win a game at home.

I am not suggesting that Holland fire Blashill this year. I am suggesting that he will be fired after he is given his 2 years and he fails. Chances are we won't have a coach nearly as good as Babcock for many, many years. Losing him was a massive blow to the franchise.

Whatever. Your narrative is old and stale and like trash needs to be picked up and thrown out.

Your god's gift to coaching is tanking to tied for 3rd worst in the NHL.

Blashill is a great young coach who needs to influence the kids/young men coming into the organization.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Howard was awesome the first half of last year. Not that I disagree, but c'mon the dude was great until the break.

I agree he was good but they didn't lean on him nearly as hard. After his injury he never returned to form and Mrazek was either great or getting pulled. Goaltending has been vastly superior overall this year.

 

[Ezekial]

3 points above the 2nd wildcard is competing for the wild card.
Particularly when
A) you are the lowest scoring team in the playoff picture.
B)you have a negative goals differential unlike every other playoff team.
C)You can't win a game at home.

I am not suggesting that Holland fire Blashill this year. I am suggesting that he will be fired after he is given his 2 years and he fails. Chances are we won't have a coach nearly as good as Babcock for many, many years. Losing him was a massive blow to the franchise.

I'm not going to get into semantics with you. They're competing for the division, it doesn't matter to me if there's 2 teams competing for the division or 5 teams competing for the division, they are. They're 3 points out of first, but since they're 3 points from the WC they aren't competing for it? That's ridiculous. Florida is 6 points out of that spot, are they only competing for the wildcard as well?

Luckily we have more road games than home games left.

I agree he was good but they didn't lean on him nearly as hard. After his injury he never returned to form and Mrazek was either great or getting pulled. Goaltending has been vastly superior overall this year.

Like I said, I don't disagree. But without Howard playing as well as he did in the first half last year, that similar Wings roster with an all world coach misses the playoffs.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Whatever. Your narrative is old and stale and like trash needs to be picked up and thrown out.

Your god's gift to coaching is tanking to tied for 3rd worst in the NHL.

Blashill is a great young coach who needs to influence the kids/young men coming into the organization.

Jeff Blashill is the least qualified coach the Detroit Redwings have had in 30 years.

 

[SoupNazi]

Jeff Blashill is the least qualified coach the Detroit Redwings have had in 30 years.

Do you have some facts to back that up?

 

[Ezekial]

Do you have some facts to back that up?

He isn't wrong resume-wise. That doesn't make his point valid though.

If no coaches were ever given a shot at the NHL without impressive resumes (although for what he's done it's very damn impressive), welp.....

 

[Actual Thought*]

I'm not going to get into semantics with you. They're competing for the division, it doesn't matter to me if there's 2 teams competing for the division or 5 teams competing for the division, they are. They're 3 points out of first, but since they're 3 points from the WC they aren't competing for it? That's ridiculous. Florida is 6 points out of that spot, are they only competing for the wildcard as well?

Luckily we have more road games than home games left.



Like I said, I don't disagree. But without Howard playing as well as he did in the first half last year, that similar Wings roster with an all world coach misses the playoffs.

There are teams rising and the Wings aren't one of them. Boston is 1 point behind us and out of their next 5 games 3 of them are TO, Buffalo, Buffalo. Boston has a game in hand.

Tampa has been playing better and is 2 points behind us. Tampa also has a game in hand. They are 8-2-0 in their last 10. 4 out of their next 5 are against non-playoff teams. The 5th is against us.

There is no room for error and this team has been prone to error like squandering home games.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Do you have some facts to back that up?

Yes.

 

[The Zermanator]

Yes.

Well that settles it, then.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Yes.

Terrific facts. Your right

 

[DanZ]

3 points above the 2nd wildcard is competing for the wild card.
Particularly when
A) you are the lowest scoring team in the playoff picture.
B)you have a negative goals differential unlike every other playoff team.
C)You can't win a game at home.

I am not suggesting that Holland fire Blashill this year. I am suggesting that he will be fired after he is given his 2 years and he fails. Chances are we won't have a coach nearly as good as Babcock for many, many years. Losing him was a massive blow to the franchise.

You're so right. He was killing it the last few years here with all those President's trophies and Cups... Not like we were ever battling for a wild card spot or losing in the first round with him around

 

[Actual Thought*]

Well that settles it, then.

Terrific facts. Your right

Jacques Demers-7 years NHL head coaching experience. Conf final the year before he came to Detroit.

Bryan Murray 7 years NHL experience-Playoffs every year-Jack Adams trophy

Scotty Bowman-Most wins of any NHL head coach-You may have heard of him.

Dave Lewis-NHL assistant for 13 years-3 Stanley Cups

Mike Babcock 2 years NHL coaching experience Stanley Cup final appearance

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Jacques Demers-7 years NHL head coaching experience. Conf final the year before he came to Detroit.

Bryan Murray 7 years NHL experience-Playoffs every year-Jack Adams trophy

Scotty Bowman-Most wins of any NHL head coach-You may have heard of him.

Dave Lewis-NHL assistant for 13 years-3 Stanley Cups

Mike Babcock 2 years NHL coaching experience Stanley Cup final appearance

Dave Lewis never ran his own bench and was without a doubt less qualified than Blashill.

USHL championship (think major junior) Coach of the Year
Very impressive stint in college hockey - Conference Coach of the Year
NHL assistant
AHL champion
AHL coach of the year

Basically Blashill is the version of Babcock that Anaheim hired, honestly Babcock was a little less decorated as a pro coach but had some major tournaments on his resume. But still pretty similar.

Again that resume for a head coaching position clubs Dave Lewis to the ground. It is also ideal in terms of how all the great coaches got their look in the league. Winning at every stop and doing so impressively.

Blash is doing a good job so far. I look forward to him coaching the US Olympic team sometime soon as well. However if he wins there I promise I won't count it towards his NHL resume if things aren't going well. I will just appreciate it as a USA Hockey fan.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Dave Lewis never ran his own bench and was without a doubt less qualified than Blashill.

USHL championship (think major junior) Coach of the Year
Very impressive stint in college hockey - Conference Coach of the Year
NHL assistant
AHL champion
AHL coach of the year

Basically Blashill is the version of Babcock that Anaheim hired, honestly Babcock was a little less decorated as a pro coach but had some major tournaments on his resume. But still pretty similar.

Again that resume for a head coaching position clubs Dave Lewis to the ground. It is also ideal in terms of how all the great coaches got their look in the league. Winning at every stop and doing so impressively.

Blash is doing a good job so far. I look forward to him coaching the US Olympic team sometime soon as well. However if he wins there I promise I won't count it towards his NHL resume if things aren't going well. I will just appreciate it as a USA Hockey fan.

Dave Lewis played in the NHL and then mentored under the best coach in history. He was very successful as an assistant. Blashill had one year as an NHL assistant and failed.
Every failed NHL coach won at every level prior to coming to the NHL too. Babcock got a shot with the Mighty Ducks. He wasn't handed the keys to an original 6 franchise with a 25 year playoff run.

Just curious. You have made a lot of claims about Blashill's high tempo, attacking, potent offence, exciting brand of hockey. Where is it?
All I see is the lowest scoring team in 40 years that gives up just as many goals as it did last year even though they have better goaltending.
Where is the exciting brand of hockey that was going to be so superior to that boring Babcock hockey?

 

[Dotter]

Blashill is a fine coach young coach. Glad to have him.