Management vs. coaching

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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I would like you to break down the X and Os of Blashill's system and make a case for why it is awesome that the team has the worst offence in 40 years.

i think i asked first. and for the record, i don't think it's awesome. i think blash is average coach. i think there are few great coaches who get more out of their roster than their talent indicates. wings aren't going to be able to hire any of those guys in the near future. then there are coaches who are average, they don't swing results much in either way, they don't make their team over/underachieve long-term. then there are the crappy coaches there are only few of those. i think wings would be clearly in bottom 10 if blashill was a crappy coach (would've happened had we hired granato). average coach has them right where they are. great coach in a playoff spot.

i'm not sue if you've noticed but league-wide scoring is as low as ever. better comparison would be red wings ranking compared to the rest of the league. at the moment they are worse than they were last year than year before and by fair margin. but exactly at the same position as they were back in 2013. 20th in goals for.
 

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i think i asked first. and for the record, i don't think it's awesome. i think blash is average coach. i think there are few great coaches who get more out of their roster than their talent indicates. wings aren't going to be able to hire any of those guys in the near future. then there are coaches who are average, they don't swing results much in either way, they don't make their team over/underachieve long-term. then there are the crappy coaches there are only few of those. i think wings would be clearly in bottom 10 if blashill was a crappy coach (would've happened had we hired granato). average coach has them right where they are. great coach in a playoff spot.

i'm not sue if you've noticed but league-wide scoring is as low as ever. better comparison would be red wings ranking compared to the rest of the league. at the moment they are worse than they were last year than year before and by fair margin. but exactly at the same position as they were back in 2013. 20th in goals for.
See there? We agree. Blashill is just average. He gives you no advantage whatsoever.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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See there? We agree. Blashill is just average. He gives you no advantage whatsoever.

I think you just accidentally complimented Blashill.

If he's already "just average" after only having played a half a season in the NHL, I think he's off to a great start.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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See there? We agree. Blashill is just average. He gives you no advantage whatsoever.

there are only few coaches who can give advantage. those guys have very secured jobs, save for sutter who might retire soon. wings aren't going to get those guys.

their best hope is some average coach who can develop into elite coach. no veterans as they are unlikely to develop new tricks. someone young and new coach. like blashill.
 

DanZ

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Mar 6, 2008
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Pretty exciting that Blashill is already an average (top 15?) NHL coach during his first half season in the league. Bodes well for our future. He will only get better.
 

InjuredChoker

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Pretty exciting that Blashill is already an average (top 15?) NHL coach during his first half season in the league. Bodes well for our future. He will only get better.

i don't know if he's top 15 (i guess one can argue that he is), i meant it more like he doesn't significantly hurt (eakins, sacco, carlyle) or improve (babcock, Q, arguably sutter, trotz, tippett) the teams results based on what the talent on the roster would indicate.

agreed with the last part.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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i think i asked first. and for the record, i don't think it's awesome. i think blash is average coach. i think there are few great coaches who get more out of their roster than their talent indicates. wings aren't going to be able to hire any of those guys in the near future. then there are coaches who are average, they don't swing results much in either way, they don't make their team over/underachieve long-term. then there are the crappy coaches there are only few of those. i think wings would be clearly in bottom 10 if blashill was a crappy coach (would've happened had we hired granato). average coach has them right where they are. great coach in a playoff spot.

i'm not sue if you've noticed but league-wide scoring is as low as ever. better comparison would be red wings ranking compared to the rest of the league. at the moment they are worse than they were last year than year before and by fair margin. but exactly at the same position as they were back in 2013. 20th in goals for.

Scoring is down league wide to a massive degree. Last I checked and maybe lately they dipped back below that, but they have been better 5 on 5 which I would attribute to the coaching system.

I don't know where Blashill fits now in the greater scheme. He is a rookie at this level and he is experimenting with what in his system works and what doesn't. I like that the D is active, I think we need better D-man to really make it function.

But Blashill doesn't hurt you and I think he is getting better. Another thing with Blashill's teams is they have historically played much better down the stretch than earlier in the year, so I look forward to that.

They are in a playoff spot right now too, so I am confused. If it is just to be fighting with other teams well one of your great coaches listed had them in the same position for several years now.

I don't think they have his system fully on. They don't play with the pace or directness of his other teams to date. We will see when we start to see more of that, it might be after some of the personnel changes.

He needs to work on the special teams with his other coaches. It has been disappointing there. But 5 on 5 we are trending the right way in my opinion and the more speed and support they get playing with the better it is going to look.

Scoring is down league wide. It doesn't look to be coming back up anytime soon. In fact what the Wings scored last year would be more than Chicago this year for instance. That is how sharp the decline in offense is. The GAA have gone down for the Wings this year and I would never with a straight face call Blashill a better defensive coach than Babcock.

Again I like the trends of this team. I like that they are getting better, I think they are still adapting and I am very happy with the progression of Blash. I think we have a Top 10 coach in the league if not by the end of this season then early into next year.

Also by the way in six or seven years depending on what is going on with the team, I am going to start talking about they probably need a new voice. That is my opinion on coaching in general, there are very few people that can overcome that, this seems to be particularly true in Hockey with only a few exceptions.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Also fix the darn PP.

I'm calling it now. The powerplay is the biggest red herring of 2016.

Say you fix the PP. You win a few more 1 goal games by getting your PP% into the top 10. Maybe you bring a few to OT and get some extra points. Now you're competing for a top division spot with a couple teams. Not much is different.

But your team +/- is still awful next to those other teams. And the Wings don't control play the way championship teams usually do. Powerplay numbers don't mean a lot when you get into those 7 game series. The Wings #2 PP at 23.5% dropped to #11th (of 16) in the playoffs at 17.2%. Whoops. The Ducks, Wild, Senators, and Predators all lead the playoffs in powerplay percentage with a minimum of 22.7%... yet not a one made it to the finals.

An uptick in the powerplay doesn't make this team a contender. That's fool's gold if I ever saw it. This team has an execution problem, which we've seen from the same core many times over many years.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'm calling it now. The powerplay is the biggest red herring of 2016.

Say you fix the PP. You win a few more 1 goal games by getting your PP% into the top 10. Maybe you bring a few to OT and get some extra points. Now you're competing for a top division spot with a couple teams. Not much is different.

But your team +/- is still awful next to those other teams. And the Wings don't control play the way championship teams usually do. Powerplay numbers don't mean a lot when you get into those 7 game series. The Wings #2 PP at 23.5% dropped to #11th (of 16) in the playoffs at 17.2%. Whoops. The Ducks, Wild, Senators, and Predators all lead the playoffs in powerplay percentage with a minimum of 22.7%... yet not a one made it to the finals.

An uptick in the powerplay doesn't make this team a contender. That's fool's gold if I ever saw it. This team has an execution problem, which we've seen from the same core many times over many years.

On the whole, I agree with your point that that powerplay isn't indicative of success in the playoffs, and that improving the powerplay alone won't be a huge deal. Our special teams, as a whole, is pretty mediocre, though. If we can bump each up a few percentage points, our scoring differential will shift, we should get some more points, and maybe we have some breathing room in the standings down the stretch - something sorely needed for our older legs. I think the mental pressure a bit of a cushion might relieve would be pretty good for some of our guys, too. This isn't to insinuate that our guys are mentally weak or anything, just that stress wears you down, and having to fight for your playoff spot up until the last day has to take a toll.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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Anyone got a clue as to why scoring is down leaguewide? Fewer PPs? I don't think goalies just all of a sudden got amazing this season. There were no rule changes. It's odd.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Anyone got a clue as to why scoring is down leaguewide? Fewer PPs? I don't think goalies just all of a sudden got amazing this season. There were no rule changes. It's odd.

The game is pretty bottled up right now. It's not clutch and grab, but the defensive systems are more refined than ever. Dallas, the prototypical "run and gun" from last year has cleaned up their efforts and the goals against reflects that.

We're entering the prime years of teams focusing of corsi and possession, which cements hanging onto the puck until you can put it on net and being in a position to defend after that chance. How many games look like teams probing one another along the edges looking for weaknesses and openings?

After the NHL cracked down on dudes like Hatcher clutching and grabbing their way through a career, we saw the game open up with speed and explosive plays. Then subsequently coaches, like Mr. Babcock, have done everything they can to minimize that speed and focus on counterpunting and finding holes.

And goalie training has never been better so finding 30 great goalies in the entire world is a lot easier.
 

HIFE

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May 10, 2011
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Anyone got a clue as to why scoring is down leaguewide? Fewer PPs? I don't think goalies just all of a sudden got amazing this season. There were no rule changes. It's odd.

JMO but shot blocking is a huge factor. It's a skill we've seen slowly develop over say the last 10 years and the "craft" of blocking shots is now a high science.

My belief is the skill level (stickhandling, quickness, playmaking) increases every season and there's been a homogenizing of the talent level of NHL players. For example there is no defenseman in the NHL that can be simply skated around/through anymore (unless their name is Brendan Smith :laugh:). The D are developing their technique at just as high of a pace individually as the forwards. We may never again see a "generational talent" such as Ovi and Crosby- a player like McDavid may be close to meeting that description but no way he transforms the game like those two in their rookie years. Basically what you see is the scoring "superstars" of the past seasons- Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, Kopitar,etc. are not head and shoulder above their peers (unless their name is Patrick Kane :nod:).

With 10 years of parity teams themselves have gotten closer in strength and ability. It used to be the basement teams could be depended on to give up 4 or 5 goals. Arizona, Columbus, Buffalo today are decent hockey clubs not guaranteed pushovers. Without weaker teams overall scoring has to go down.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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The game is pretty bottled up right now. It's not clutch and grab, but the defensive systems are more refined than ever. Dallas, the prototypical "run and gun" from last year has cleaned up their efforts and the goals against reflects that.

We're entering the prime years of teams focusing of corsi and possession, which cements hanging onto the puck until you can put it on net and being in a position to defend after that chance. How many games look like teams probing one another along the edges looking for weaknesses and openings?

After the NHL cracked down on dudes like Hatcher clutching and grabbing their way through a career, we saw the game open up with speed and explosive plays. Then subsequently coaches, like Mr. Babcock, have done everything they can to minimize that speed and focus on counterpunting and finding holes.

And goalie training has never been better so finding 30 great goalies in the entire world is a lot easier.

good stuff. would also add that refs (NHL) doesn't mind and even wants to slow the game down so they don't call the interference, picks and stuff. players are so big and fast that they would destroy each other with faster game. which happened quite a bit few years ago. NFL concussion lawsuit probably scared the crap out of NHL.

plus the lower skill level teams have no other way to do it. they can't outscore them so they have to do other ways to win.
 

PuckDynasty

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May 3, 2014
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Just stop, Bob McKenzie said the principal trade pieces were Anthony Mantha and Tyler Myers. That's an easy deal to make. Only Ken Holland didn't get it done.

Or.......it could be possible that Buffalo chose to get an established player from a team that was not in their division? Nah, Holland just sucks. And a reporter said it, so it must be true.
 

HockeyinHD

Semi-retired former active poster.
Jun 18, 2006
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Just stop, Bob McKenzie said the principal trade pieces were Anthony Mantha and Tyler Myers. That's an easy deal to make. Only Ken Holland didn't get it done.

Oh, I don't think it's that easy to make. Even if we write off the entirety of his last three full seasons in Buffalo as not representative of his ability, Myers has not been particularly impressive.

120 games, 10 goals, 29 assists.
125 games, 8 goals, 29 assists.

One of those lines is Tyler Myers' production at ES. The other is Danny Dekeyser's. Myers has a slight overall ES IT advantage.

He's certainly a competent top 3 dman, but he's nowhere near a lead. If the thought process at the time was that Mantha had a very good chance to be a top 6 forward... I'm not sure I send him out just to get a guy who may not even play on the top pairing.

And even that said, I'd rather have Green at 6 than Myers at 5.5, and Detroit got Green without having to give up anything.
 

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