Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[Peen]

Hey I’ve been to well over 500, good for me. The bottom line is the STH pay the freight. They don’t want to watch another tire fire for a half decade.

Good for you I guess? My point with bringing it up was that it’s a stupid elitist fan thing that I see in every sport about how the paying customers know best and other fans opinions are less important. Kevin Lowe T1 fan nonsense.

Frankly the market has had zero connection to the team for over a decade and ticket sales have been ass. So trying to say they need to keep those shitty ticket sales is an odd position. If they had at any point not been morons in the last 10+ years and taken a little bit of a longer view, they probably would have much better ticket sales.

 

[arttk]

I know MS did and those posts got a loooot of likes when he would push back on that.

Frankly I don’t know how you would agree with those two points and then push back on the idea that they should have stepped back over the past 18 months more than they should have, which I know a lot of people here genuinely believe was impossible and would have led to an earlier departure for EP/QH.

I’ve always maintained that when things were bad they should’ve leaned hard into it and I was pissed about the media blowing the BB stuff over like crazy. I think if the media wasn’t making a big stink over it we would’ve gotten 10 games less of Tocchet and finished much lower.

leaning into a bad year is very different than purposely making the team bad from the get go.

i think when they first joined, I am not sure there was anything they could’ve done to purposely stop the BB win train other than selling Miller. I’ve said I am supportive of trading him if we get the right package, something similar to what we got for Bo but we never got that. aside from that, who the hell could we have traded to stop the BB win train? Bo? It’s not like Benning left us with a bunch of high value assets…

 

[HairyKneel]

Good for you I guess? My point with bringing it up was that it’s a stupid elitist fan thing that I see in every sport about how the paying customers know best and other fans opinions are less important. Kevin Lowe T1 fan nonsense.

Frankly the market has had zero connection to the team for over a decade and ticket sales have been ass. So trying to say they need to keep those shitty ticket sales is an odd position. If they had at any point not been morons in the last 10+ years and taken a little bit of a longer view, they probably would have much better ticket sales.

The current management is under a directive from ownership to build the team, not burn it down. They absolutely should have done things differently from 2016-2019. There’s nothing we can do about that now. You may get your scorched earth rebuild yet, but there’s no guarantee that will work.

It’s not elitist and has dick all to to with Kevin Lowe. If you don’t think thousands of fans that are ticket holders don’t have a bit more invested than folks that are thousands of miles away and never attend games, I’m not sure what to tell you. It’s common sense. I don’t dismiss any one’s opinions and I think things should have been done differently a few years ago. We had a moron running the show. I’m going to see what this crew can do before I jump up and down.

 

[arttk]

I know MS did and those posts got a loooot of likes when he would push back on that.

Frankly I don’t know how you would agree with those two points and then push back on the idea that they should have stepped back over the past 18 months more than they should have, which I know a lot of people here genuinely believe was impossible and would have led to an earlier departure for EP/QH.

I’ve always maintained that when things were bad they should’ve leaned hard into it and I was pissed about the media blowing the BB stuff over like crazy. I think if the media wasn’t making a big stink over it we would’ve gotten 10 games less of Tocchet and finished much lower.

leaning into a bad year is very different than purposely making the team bad from the get go.

i think when they first joined, I am not sure there was anything they could’ve done to purposely stop the BB win train other than selling Miller. I mean all the guys we could’ve sold at TDL we sold. Regards to Miller, I’ve said I am supportive of trading him if we get the right package, something similar to what we got for Bo but we never got that. aside from that, who the hell could we have traded to stop the BB win train? So yeah I don’t think it was really realistic to argue for them to tank things when they joined.

 

[credulous]

You still haven’t answered my question, when I said 2 more I was referring to top6/top4 guys. So like 1W,2C,2 top4 D.

So 2 more this coming year and 2 more the year after. How unlikely is that?

are you asking if i think they can add two legit top 6 forwards and two legit top 4 d before september 2025 then no i don't think they can. it's not impossible but nothing i've seen from this group makes me think it will happen

 

[northwestrcomfort]

The current management is under a directive from ownership to build the team, not burn it down. They absolutely should have done things differently from 2016-2019. There’s nothing we can do about that now. You may get your scorched earth rebuild yet, but there’s no guarantee that will work.

It’s not elitist and has dick all to to with Kevin Lowe. If you don’t think thousands of fans that are ticket holders don’t have a bit more invested than folks that are thousands of miles away and never attend games, I’m not sure what to tell you. It’s common sense. I don’t dismiss any one’s opinions and I think things should have been done differently a few years ago. We had a moron running the show. I’m going to see what this crew can do before I jump up and down.

"I don’t dismiss any one’s opinions" lol but that is your argument.

 

[Diogenes92]

I’m sorry… did Jim Benning get rehired by the Canucks?

I sure hope not.

 

[arttk]

are you asking if i think they can add two legit top 6 forwards and two legit top 4 d before september 2025 then no i don't think they can. it's not impossible but nothing i've seen from this group makes me think it will happen

Yes that is the question.
Ok that fine, if you don’t believe this management group can add at least 4 players if that level over the next 2 calendar years then we see things completely different and basically arguing with a completely different set of expectation.

I honestly don’t see it as a tough thing to add at least 2 per year so you can call that optimism but considering they added Mik, Kuz and Hronek in 1 cal year, I don’t see why they can’t add more.

 

[HairyKneel]

Yes that is the question.
Ok that fine, if you don’t believe this management group can add at least 4 players if that level over the next 2 calendar years then we see things completely different and basically arguing with a completely different set of expectation.

I honestly don’t see it as a tough thing to add at least 2 per year so you can call that optimism but considering they added Mik, Kuz and Hronek in 1 cal year, I don’t see why they can’t add more.

i don’t like the mix up front whatsoever. There are some good and very good players but it’s a dogs breakfast. They are too soft and too small. I think the speed has gotten better but they need some thump up there and for that matter I’d say on D as well. It’s pretty bad when your coach is jawing with Evander Kane while the rest of the team won’t bat an eye. It’s really don’t bad Jonah Gadjovich didn’t have another step. He would have fit like a glove. Zack Mac had everything but balance. He was like a newborn foal on skates. Luke Schenn rightfully took his best offer and a chance to live ina great city on a team run by great people. They need some pushback. Nurse, Kane etc are going to have their way with these guys.

They need some edge and some heft through the lineup. They also need another top six forward and another top 4 D. 10 million plus turfing Myers and Beau at seasons end should help. I don’t think they need two top 4 d and two top 6 forwards as i think there could be internal push in the next year.

"I don’t dismiss any one’s opinions" lol but that is your argument.

And your point is?

 

[MarkMM]

Yes that is the question.
Ok that fine, if you don’t believe this management group can add at least 4 players if that level over the next 2 calendar years then we see things completely different and basically arguing with a completely different set of expectation.

I honestly don’t see it as a tough thing to add at least 2 per year so you can call that optimism but considering they added Mik, Kuz and Hronek in 1 cal year, I don’t see why they can’t add more.

No guarantees but there's a decent chance we're going to be 50% there with just Willander and Lekkerimaki. It'll require shrewd but not miraculous management to get the remaining two.

 

[Canucker]

So a guy in Texas and a guy in Finland are pounding a drum for a scorched earth rebuild. So the teams been a garbage fire for a decade, let’s get rid of two of the best players in the game that are 23 and 24. How many games do you guys attend?

The STH wield a lot of power here and they don’t want to watch a shitty team for another five years. They have chosen to try and build around Hughes, Demko and Peter.


I’m sorry… did Jim Benning get rehired by the Canucks?

Who said anything about a “scorched earth rebuild”? I said keep the core rebuild the crap and get the cap in order…you guys just like to fear monger losing Hughes and Petey over having to make tough management choices.

 

[arttk]

No guarantees but there's a decent chance we're going to be 50% there with just Willander and Lekkerimaki. It'll require shrewd but not miraculous management to get the remaining two.

I think we will probably get 1 from FA because that’s the asset free way. I hope we trade Myers and Beau for some picks and flip those picks + maybe more for like a 2C.
Ideally you have Boeser have a career year and you can turn him into a 1st and use that for another piece and replace him with FA.

 

[MarkMM]

I think we will probably get 1 from FA because that’s the asset free way. I hope we trade Myers and Beau for some picks and flip those picks + maybe more for like a 2C.
Ideally you have Boeser have a career year and you can turn him into a 1st and use that for another piece and replace him with FA.

Yup, it's all doable, and by and large Rutherford and Allvin have made more good calls than bad.

 

[oceanchild]

In some alternate universe there’s a Jim Benning readying himself to trade E V E R Y T H I N G for Noah Hanifin

With a contract offer that could not be refused

People still endlessly want the team to make the moves they should have made in 2016 or 2018 in 2023 when that ship has long since sailed.

Wait…. Are we that much better now ?

 

[rypper]

Wait…. Are we that much better now ?

Why don't we see how the season goes?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I mean if you strongly believe that they won’t be able to improve on the team every year then sure. You were pessimistic about them being able to improve the team last TDL and they did.

We've yet to see that they have improved.

Dom's model predicts us getting exactly as many points as it did for last season.

Why don't we see how the season goes?

Before we declare that we have improved?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I know MS did and those posts got a loooot of likes when he would push back on that.

He is a popular poster. He gets alot of likes.

Frankly I don’t know how you would agree with those two points and then push back on the idea that they should have stepped back over the past 18 months more than they should have, which I know a lot of people here genuinely believe was impossible and would have led to an earlier departure for EP/QH.

#videogamelogic

 

[arttk]

We've yet to see that they have improved.

Dom's model predicts us getting exactly as many points as it did for last season.


Before we declare that we have improved?

Yeah we are all just spitballing here anyways.

Here are all the model prediction.

4 bold predictions for the 2022-23 Vancouver Canucks’ season

I thought Frank Seravalli did a great job describing what a bold predi...

canucksarmy.com

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes let’s force the guy who is not signed to a long term contract to go through a rebuild and convince him to exercise his arb rights so he can get out asap. And on top of that, force unhappy players to stay to foster a toxic locker room environment so the new draft pick can really feel the poison in the room.

You sound like many of those jackass managers who don’t give a f*** about how people feel and end up creating a toxic ass environment where everyone is looking to leave and underperforming.

Also asylum and inmates is a really poor analogy and really shows how you see people. These people are employees who are paid to function. It’s on management to convince them that this is the place to stay and to give 100%+.

EP wont be tricked in to signing with short term moves.

He is on record his goal is to win multiple cups. Not sneak in to the playoffs to make Aqua a few million.

 

[arttk]

EP wont be tricked in to signing with short term moves.

He is on record his goal is to win multiple cups. Not sneak in to the playoffs to make Aqua a few million.

and you think he would go for a “step back” ?

Edit: I am done with this stupid ass back and forth. You are convinced that it’s possible to do a record fast “step back” rebuild where everything hits and Petey is fine with absolute suckage and we are going to get NJ level of depth within this short 2 year step back. I don’t and that’s enough debating on this for me

 

[oceanchild]

Why don't we see how the season goes?

Fair enough, I do think we may have a good season, and, may make the playoffs. My concern doesn’t sit with how good this team may be, my concern is if this team has positioned itself to actually compete for a Cup. I don’t think we are, and I struggle to see how we will. That being said (I like many often feel better about our prospects than the reality that usually plays out) if our 3 Swedish prospects (Lekkerimäki, Pettersson, & Willander) all end up being players of value and Hoglander, Podkolzin and Raty can come in and be middle 6 forwards (or at least 2 from both groups) than maybe we have a chance with Silovs proving to be Demkos replacement, maybe we can be good. I just have not experienced our prospect pool doing so well. (I am not just talking about this season, but moving forward).


I will also say, if they can get a true second line Center, and move Miller to the wing and Boeser has a comeback year, and they can find someone to play with Hughes that isn’t a borderline NHler we would be a great team. I just don’t think we have the cap or assets to do it. I like our left side if we don’t move anyone to the right, and Myers is fine on the third pair.

 

[bossram]

"I don’t dismiss any one’s opinions" lol but that is your argument.

It literally is.

"People who pay more are smarter and have better opinions" is the gist of it. Elitist nonsense.

 

[andora]

Sure, they CAN last that long...but, if you already have a decent core group and just need to blow up the periphery, it potentially makes your rebuild that much faster/easier.

Not when they likely want out cause of it. The good players have a lot more sway than we think, if pettersson hasnt signed by now would you expect him to sign goimg into another retool year?

Or the core stays but we are rebuildimg the periphery - what does that mean, the depth, so the mikheyevs/hroneks?

Through the draft? Which with a core group in tact would we even be bad enough to get high choices?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not when they likely want out cause of it. The good players have a lot more sway than we think, if pettersson hasnt signed by now would you expect him to sign goimg into another retool year?

Think about what you are saying.

You are using the fact that they failed to convice EP to extend as a defence for the team building path they've chosen.

Or the core stays but we are rebuildimg the periphery - what does that mean, the depth, so the mikheyevs/hroneks?

Through the draft? Which with a core group in tact would we even be bad enough to get high choices?

 

[DS7]

I'll say thi

I think we will probably get 1 from FA because that’s the asset free way. I hope we trade Myers and Beau for some picks and flip those picks + maybe more for like a 2C.
Ideally you have Boeser have a career year and you can turn him into a 1st and use that for another piece and replace him with FA.

So ill say this for the rebuilders or even the tank the season when out of reach crowd. we know for a fact the value of a top pick comes every year because the draft happens every year.

There's no guarantee we see a Kuzmenko level free agent available in the next five years and even then its a 1/32 chance of signing. I personally think the flat cap era was the best time to squeeze a 2C from a team. It's going to be vastly more difficult now to do this.

Not impossible. But even the step back approach last year could have helped you secure that piece needed today if you were trading a 5-7th overall pick to get more picks or move down as opposed to the 11th. And petey would still be in the same spot of wanting to see that improvement this year.