Management Thread III (MOD Warning Post # 67)

[krutovsdonut]

@tyee

i disagree on emphasis in places and with some of your takes, but every point you make is fair and arguable. good effort.

 

[4Twenty]

I'll probably be the only one to gripe about this, and thanks for the summary tyhee, but I don't think the buyout of Spooner was obvious, nor do I think it was a good move.....it gained them ~barely a million in space this year (vs being waived to the AHL) and costs them a million next year.

Obviously it's less than 2% of the cap, but it adds up.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Um I don’t think you really mean that. Where is Matthew Tkachuk right now? Mikko Rantanen? Patrik Laine? Brayden Point? If these guys are so easy to sign that every GM can do it then why do we see all these difficult negotiations? Why did Nylander hold out? Why did the Jets have to trade Trouba? The list goes on and on. Dealing with RFAs is getting harder and harder and GMs like Dubas are caving left right and center. It’s a huge part of the job now and increasingly difficult. Thats a fact.

There are a lot of things to consider with what is going on with the current batch of RFAs.

The first was the NHLPA opting to accept or decline the option for the current CBA.

The second was the RFA market sorting itself out. This isn't anything new and isn't reflective of anything for any of the GMs in the league.

I remember there being issues with Kesler sitting things out way back when (before Philadelphia offer sheeted him), as well as RJ Umberger getting jerked around by Brian Burke because he was asking for a contract that was in line with other players in his draft class/position.

This sort of stuff happens all the time and has been happening for a long time.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Elliotte Friedman discusses Canucks making a potential trade, younger generation hockey players, remaining RFA's - Sportsnet.ca

 

[y2kcanucks]

Elliotte Friedman discusses Canucks making a potential trade, younger generation hockey players, remaining RFA's - Sportsnet.ca

If we can get rid of Sutter, Eriksson, Beagle, Myers, Schaller, and even Pearson I’d be happy.

Good luck with that though.

 

[tantalum]

Elliotte Friedman discusses Canucks making a potential trade, younger generation hockey players, remaining RFA's - Sportsnet.ca

I would imagine the Canes will also be active. They arguably have 10 or more defenders that can take a regular top 7 spot in the NHL. Faulk will be gone for sure I think but I also expect they will move one or two more and try to avoid risk losing guys to waivers.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I would imagine the Canes will also be active. They arguably have 10 or more defenders that can take a regular top 7 spot in the NHL. Faulk will be gone for sure I think but I also expect they will move one or two more and try to avoid risk losing guys to waivers.

Winnipeg should be all over that. Losing Trouba is going to hurt, and losing Byfuglien will cripple their defense.

I almost wonder if there could be a potential deal involving Laine and Slavin/Faulk.

 

[Addison Rae]

Winnipeg should be all over that. Losing Trouba is going to hurt, and losing Byfuglien will cripple their defense.

I almost wonder if there could be a potential deal involving Laine and Slavin/Faulk.

Faulk doesn’t have anywhere near that value.

 

[MS]

Elliotte Friedman discusses Canucks making a potential trade, younger generation hockey players, remaining RFA's - Sportsnet.ca

Interesting take on Friedman's take .... in an interview yesterday he did list those teams as trying to make moves, but also essentially said that Vancouver was trying to move bottom-roster crap that nobody wants, so he didn't expect anything to happen.

 

[4Twenty]

Interesting take on Friedman's take .... in an interview yesterday he did list those teams as trying to make moves, but also essentially said that Vancouver was trying to move bottom-roster crap that nobody wants, so he didn't expect anything to happen.

Edmonton's beat guy is tweeting this morning that the Canucks are working hard to move Schaller. Like anyone is going to trade for a guy who will obviously be free on waivers in two weeks anyways, but yeah.

The guys the Canucks would want to move: Baertschi, Eriksson are valueless and both likely cost money to move. I think they'd trade virtanen, but they also need cheap roster filler, so it doesn't really help anything this year.

 

[Hit the post]

Edmonton's beat guy is tweeting this morning that the Canucks are working hard to move Schaller. Like anyone is going to trade for a guy who will obviously be free on waivers in two weeks anyways, but yeah.

The guys the Canucks would want to move: Baertschi, Eriksson are valueless and both likely cost money to move. I think they'd trade virtanen, but they also need cheap roster filler, so it doesn't really help anything this year.

Actually he isn't even that good. He doesn't have zero value; he has negative value.

Schaller is complete trash but at least his contract isn't remotely bad as Eriksson's (just bury a chunk of his cap hit on the Comets).

But Gillis!

 

[Canucko]

Actually he isn't even that good. He doesn't have zero value; he has negative value.

Schaller is complete trash but at least his contract isn't remotely bad as Eriksson's (just bury a chunk of his cap hit on the Comets).

But Gillis!

What about Gillis?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Faulk doesn’t have anywhere near that value.

I meant that as Faulk with Slavin.

Though they likely wouldn't want to move Slavin.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I'll probably be the only one to gripe about this, and thanks for the summary tyhee, but I don't think the buyout of Spooner was obvious, nor do I think it was a good move.....it gained them ~barely a million in space this year (vs being waived to the AHL) and costs them a million next year.

Obviously it's less than 2% of the cap, but it adds up.

i think it's one of the moves you can legitimately tie to our tightening cap situation. smart move would be to give him a chance to have a good camp and attract interest then bury him and eat the $2m cap hit for one year with a very faint hope of a trade and get him off the books.

that being said, i think we mainly traded for him to buy him out because buying out gagner would have looked worse.

 

[xtra]

i think it's one of the moves you can legitimately tie to our tightening cap situation. smart move would be to give him a chance to have a good camp and attract interest then bury him and eat the $2m cap hit for one year with a very faint hope of a trade and get him off the books.

that being said, i think we mainly traded for him to buy him out because buying out gagner would have looked worse.

So it’s a shell game to hide the incompetence of the gm

 

[I am toxic]

Actually he isn't even that good. He doesn't have zero value; he has negative value.

Schaller is complete trash but at least his contract isn't remotely bad as Eriksson's (just bury a chunk of his cap hit on the Comets).

But Gillis!

This cannot be overstated.

There has been far too much thoughtful analysis of Benning's moves over the course of his tenure here, and we need to really focus discussion on Gillis where it rightfully belongs.

 

[krutovsdonut]

So it’s a shell game to hide the incompetence of the gm

not sure if benning, but the way they sent gagner to the marlies suggests to me that somebody on the team was unduly sensitive about being seen to mistreat gagner. sort of like when you hire your good friend's son. i don't know where the relationship is but i suspect somewhere you will find someone is a relative or close friend of gagner or his wife's family or his dad.

 

[xtra]

not sure if benning, but the way they sent gagner to the marlies suggests to me that somebody on the team was unduly sensitive about being seen to mistreat gagner. sort of like when you hire your good friend's son. i don't know where the relationship is but i suspect somewhere you will find someone is a relative or close friend of gagner or his wife's family or his dad.

That makes everything in this organization look worse in my eyes - ymmv

 

[Jyrki21]

This cannot be overstated.

There has been far too much thoughtful analysis of Benning's moves over the course of his tenure here, and we need to really focus discussion on Gillis where it rightfully belongs.

Also Jack Gordon, remember.

 

[4Twenty]

Also Jack Gordon, remember.

Best drafter in franchise history. Hall of Famer in the 11th round.

 

[Jyrki21]

Best drafter in franchise history. Hall of Famer in the 11th round.

I mean, the fact that that Hall of Famer was on the top line in Soviet hockey probably makes that less of a "discovery", but yeah...

 

[CherryToke]

What about Gillis?

He was a GM that couldn't get the job done or build a sustainable winner through drafting/trades but somehow is perceived as a great GM around here.

 

[Pip]

Elliotte Friedman discusses Canucks making a potential trade, younger generation hockey players, remaining RFA's - Sportsnet.ca

Why would we be looking to clear cap. I have been told multiple times that we don’t have any cap issues

 

[4Twenty]

He was a GM that couldn't get the job done or build a sustainable winner through drafting/trades but somehow is perceived as a great GM around here.

He oversaw the greatest era in franchise history and has also made the two biggest rebuilding moves the franchise has made since - Horvat and Markstrom. Imagine how perceptions would've changed had he got to make the 2014 6th overall.

But you're dead right here. Gillis and the $2m cap recapture penalty for Luongo is the reason the canucks are capped out today with a mediocre roster and their best player by a mile on his ELC.

 

[CherryToke]

He couldn't even build a competent 2nd line but ok. Too afraid to move picks (or lose any trade) that he ended up f***ing up anyway. What a champ.

And for the record, I think Benning is worse but that doesn't make Gillis good.

The Gillis fan boys are more pathetic than the Benning boys(if those still exist).