Management Thread | Edge of the day AFTER Tomorrow

[Fatass]

His contract is more attractive? That makes no sense. What is the reason or incentive for any team to take this player on, regardless of whether his salary is less than his cap hit?

Would you sign him for 5m over the next 2 years given his level of play? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Loui sucks old dirty socks, but this flat Covid cap era has teams needing to save real dollars on player salaries. A team could use Loui’s contract to get to the cap floor, and actually save 5 million in real dollars this season. It’s not beyond reason that Mr. 9 Lives Benning, because of the current Covid situation, lucks out and is able to trade Lousy Loui.

 

[xtra]

So does anyone know if NTC have to be protected in the expansion draft?

 

[Fatass]

So does anyone know if NTC have to be protected in the expansion draft?

Only No Move Clauses I think.

 

[Diamonddog01]

To relieve themselves of contracts with similar or lower cap hits that can be bought out more easily but which have much higher real salary obligations. I don't know how many more times this needs to be repeated.

This isn't to say there won't be competition to make these trades with teams like the Senators, Red Wings, etc or that the trades that are available will necessarily be workable or attractive to the Canucks, but this is the principle of how and why they will be made. No one at any point has claimed Eriksson has value as a player relative to his cap hit or real salary.

I don’t see the point, even in the Ryan example the team is then stuck with a 3.5m cap hit for 2 seasons season and then another 2 years at 1.8m (compared to a 4m cap hit followed by a 1M cap hit if the team simply buys Eriksson out in 2021). A Schneider buyout results in a 2m cap hit over 4 seasons which is marginally better I suppose, but these scenarios aren’t really preferable to simply waiting a year and buying Eriksson out ourselves imo.

 

[bossram]

They don't, and as far as I can tell no one is claiming they do. Many organizations want to save money, and they can do this by trading cash obligations the Canucks can presumably afford for Loui's contract. For example, the Senators might theoretically trade Bobby Ryan for Eriksson, Sutter at 25% retention and two 3rds. The expense of buying out bobby Ryan is about 10.8M while the Senators' real salary obligations to Eriksson and Sutter would be about 7.7M. They'd save about 3.1M directly and another million or so by taking up an extra roster spot. The Canucks gain about 5.4M in cap space, and probably at least 2.5M to spend elsewhere after filling those spots with one ELC (MacEwan, probably) and a cheap free agent signing (let's say Cody Eakin at 1.8M). I'm not sure the Senators would agree to this deal, but another structured similarly might be possible. No one is suggesting any team wants to acquire Eriksson for the sake of acquiring him.

People are. I responded to someone who was just throwing out the "cash vs. cap hit difference should make it easier to trade Loui" line. That's just not really true. There's no reason for any team to take on Loui just because of the cap hit. No team is having a problem hitting the cap floor.

The type of situation you described is the same as the one I described as being potentially plausible. But it's very specific situation. And a team like the Senators will have a lot of suitors for this type of situation. It's going to take a massive sweetener to move Loui, full stop.

 

[RandV]

Loui sucks old dirty socks, but this flat Covid cap era has teams needing to save real dollars on player salaries. A team could use Loui’s contract to get to the cap floor, and actually save 5 million in real dollars this season. It’s not beyond reason that Mr. 9 Lives Benning, because of the current Covid situation, lucks out and is able to trade Lousy Loui.

The point is the average salary has moved so close to the cap ceiling that there may not be any teams immediately ready to be below the cap floor. If you look at capfriendly.com, with the page moved towards the 2020-21 season there are only 5 teams below the floor:

Team, roster, $ below floor
COL, 14/23, -$1.1M
NJ, 13/23, -$4.9M
BUF, 10/23, -$11.9M
DET, 11/13, -$13.4M
OTT, 10/23, -$18.3M

By the time contracts are signed and rosters filled out probably the only team that could still be below the floor is Ottawa. And like I said in my prior post if you want to be cheap another option is to acquire a LTIR player whose salary will be payed by insurance, like Arizona did with Datsyuk.

So end result, for any team right now except maybe Ottawa who will have options adding Eriksson right now means adding real $$$ to your payroll.

 

[bandwagonesque]

The point is the average salary has moved so close to the cap ceiling that there may not be any teams immediately ready to be below the cap floor. If you look at capfriendly.com, with the page moved towards the 2020-21 season there are only 5 teams below the floor:

Team, roster, $ below floor
COL, 14/23, -$1.1M
NJ, 13/23, -$4.9M
BUF, 10/23, -$11.9M
DET, 11/13, -$13.4M
OTT, 10/23, -$18.3M

By the time contracts are signed and rosters filled out probably the only team that could still be below the floor is Ottawa. And like I said in my prior post if you want to be cheap another option is to acquire a LTIR player whose salary will be payed by insurance, like Arizona did with Datsyuk.

So end result, for any team right now except maybe Ottawa who will have options adding Eriksson right now means adding real $$$ to your payroll.

This is certainly true, although it isn't always clear which players' contracts are insured. Not all are, and this information is usually only made public in the course of reporting on trade negotiations. There doesn't seem to be any database listing LTIR contracts around the league, but this article lists most of the major ones:

Expect the Toronto Maple Leafs to hunt for more LTIR contracts - TSN.ca

 

[Bleach Clean]

So does anyone know if NTC have to be protected in the expansion draft?

Only NMCs have to be protected.

 

[tradervik]

Making the cap floor won't be an issue for any team. For cash strapped clubs, the problem will be staying below their internal caps. In those cases, a player's actual salary will matter more than his cap hit. This opens up a tiny glimmer of hope the Canucks can, with salary retention, move out a player who would otherwise be radioactive. I'm thinking of Beagle, Roussel, Baertschi and, call me a hopeless optimist, Eriksson.

 

[rypper]

So does anyone know if NTC have to be protected in the expansion draft?

Only NMC have to be protected. The Canucks currently don't have any on the roster when the expansion draft happens.

(Ferland, Myers turn into NTC, and Edler is an UFA.)

 

[Hit the post]

Making the cap floor won't be an issue for any team. For cash strapped clubs, the problem will be staying below their internal caps. In those cases, a player's actual salary will matter more than his cap hit. This opens up a tiny glimmer of hope the Canucks can, with salary retention, move out a player who would otherwise be radioactive. I'm thinking of Beagle, Roussel, Baertschi and, call me a hopeless optimist, Eriksson.

Extremely tiny hope.

 

[M2Beezy]

Might as well just sign Toffoli to a 4 or 5 year deal worth $4.5 million/season

Then Sign Tanev to a 4 year deal for $4.75 - $5 million/season

Then sign Markstrom to a 5 year deal for $5.5 million/season leaving him EXPOSED for the Seattle draft next year

Then figure out towards the END of next season to either trade one of Marky/Demko or expose one. Decision to be made at THAT point to see what players we want to protect (fwds d goalies)

Trade Virtanen and Sutter to Ottawa for a 2020 2nd round pick

Sign Stecher to a 5 year deal at $3.25 million per season

Sign Gaudette to a 3 year deal at $1.75 million PER season

THEN wake up

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Canucks ranked #3 ...Organizational Rankings..The Athletic.
2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 3 Vancouver Canucks

 

[M2Beezy]

Canucks ranked #3 ...Organizational Rankings..The Athletic.
2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 3 Vancouver Canucks

Whose ahead of us Tampa and Detroit?

 

[rypper]

Whose ahead of us Tampa and Detroit?

Devils and Rangers.

 

[David71]

Might as well just sign Toffoli to a 4 or 5 year deal worth $4.5 million/season

Then Sign Tanev to a 4 year deal for $4.75 - $5 million/season

Then sign Markstrom to a 5 year deal for $5.5 million/season leaving him EXPOSED for the Seattle draft next year

Then figure out towards the END of next season to either trade one of Marky/Demko or expose one. Decision to be made at THAT point to see what players we want to protect (fwds d goalies)

Trade Virtanen and Sutter to Ottawa for a 2020 2nd round pick

Sign Stecher to a 5 year deal at $3.25 million per season

Sign Gaudette to a 3 year deal at $1.75 million PER season

THEN wake up

ya NO to tanev signing a 4 year deal of any kind.. hes broken down. its really time to move on from him. i think he goes to the highest bidder. maybe pittsburgh to play with his brother brandon. brandon montour of interest? hes an rfa. i dont think buffalo is gonna sign him. maybe for jake?

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Making the cap floor won't be an issue for any team. For cash strapped clubs, the problem will be staying below their internal caps. In those cases, a player's actual salary will matter more than his cap hit. This opens up a tiny glimmer of hope the Canucks can, with salary retention, move out a player who would otherwise be radioactive. I'm thinking of Beagle, Roussel, Baertschi and, call me a hopeless optimist, Eriksson.

Right but these trades would have to net real salary in return for it to be worth it to these teams. So they won't free up *that* much cap space.

 

[I am toxic]

Only on HFBenn . . . HFCanucks would someone crow about a farm system ranking that includes Petey and Hughes, while excluding the upcoming draft, where our first pick is what, the third round? At a time where everyone is talking about adding prospects to get rid of contracts that Benning has signed that have bitten us in the ass (documented).

What's next, crowing about some other dinosaur GM's giving Benning some votes for GM of the year simply because the team faced a weakened Blues team with Seivington in net and rode hot goaltending to extend a blowout series to 7 games, against a team that was eliminated by Dallas in 5?

Oh wait, been there done that? Huh.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

Only on HFBenn . . . HFCanucks would someone crow about a farm system ranking that includes Petey and Hughes, while excluding the upcoming draft, where our first pick is what, the third round? At a time where everyone is talking about adding prospects to get rid of contracts that Benning has signed that have bitten us in the ass (documented).

What's next, crowing about some other dinosaur GM's giving Benning some votes for GM of the year simply because the team faced a weakened Blues team with Seivington in net and rode hot goaltending to extend a blowout series to 7 games, against a team that was eliminated by Dallas in 5?

Oh wait, been there done that? Huh.

Crowing? Guy just posted a link...

And those were the authors' system rankings. Don't like the rankings? ok, but he's supposed to include picks from a draft that hasn't taken place yet? Makes sense

 

[bandwagonesque]

Only on HFBenn . . . HFCanucks would someone crow about a farm system ranking that includes Petey and Hughes, while excluding the upcoming draft, where our first pick is what, the third round? At a time where everyone is talking about adding prospects to get rid of contracts that Benning has signed that have bitten us in the ass (documented).

What's next, crowing about some other dinosaur GM's giving Benning some votes for GM of the year simply because the team faced a weakened Blues team with Seivington in net and rode hot goaltending to extend a blowout series to 7 games, against a team that was eliminated by Dallas in 5?

Oh wait, been there done that? Huh.

It isn’t a farm system ranking. It’s an organizational ranking that incorporates all players and prospects under 23. If you have a rationale for why that’s a less apt measure, feel free to tell us about it.

 

[m9]

I think the #3 ranking is fine, sounds right to me because EP/Hughes are that good. I don't think anyone can argue that.

That said, it doesn't incorporate any of the organizational problems (lack of upcoming draft picks, pending UFAs, bad contracts) so it's not a great reflection of things overall. I don't think anyone can argue that either.

 

[Canuck86]

The #3 rank doesn't mean much to me. EP and QH are NHLers not prospects coming into the league soon.

Podz and Hogs are hopefully both top 6 players, after that you got Lind and some long shots.

Go to D, we have Rathbone and Woo as nhl contributors, neither of which are elite high end prospects destined for top 4 nhl duties.

G: Demko is in the NHL, hopeful he becomes our #1 and we get a solid back up for him. Dipietro, has the fight but he is undersized for todays NHL G so he has an uphill battle to be anything more than a back up imo.

Not to be all doom and gloom but we don't have a great cupboard of prospects and have lost a couple high picks we could really use to help keep replenishing the cupboards. The more picks you have the better your chances are of finding those gems. We need to draft more D and some F with some speed AND size who will play with a level of grit/physicalness

 

[F A N]

It's nice to have a high organizational/farm ranking but obviously it doesn't mean much. I don't think the cupboard is bare, but rather we need to replenish it. Expecting to have a Calder trophy contender to step into the lineup every year is simply unrealistic. The Canucks have done that 3 straight years. If Hughes spent the majority of the year in the AHL he would be considered a prospect and would undoubtedly have bolstered the Canucks' farm rankings. But while it would be exciting to have a player like Hughes in the system it should be even more exciting to have seen Hughes play the way he did this season in the NHL.

The ultimate goal is for prospects to develop into quality NHL players. Once your team is filled with quality young players, you still want to have a steady supply of quality NHL prospects ready to step into the NHL. That's the pipe dream. In reality there will be ups and downs. And as I explained to Comets posters constantly, it takes time to build up prospect depth. When a team's first round pick jumps directly to the NHL, that's good drafting and great for the Canucks but not good for the farm. Typically prospects don't play in the AHL until their draft + 3 year.

 

[I am toxic]

It isn’t a farm system ranking. It’s an organizational ranking that incorporates all players and prospects under 23. If you have a rationale for why that’s a less apt measure, feel free to tell us about it.

Bandy, how did I miss that??

Oh yeah:

Corey Pronman’s annual deep dive into the farm system of every NHL organization will be slightly different this year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This year’s organizational ranking by the Athletic, will have full evaluations with tool grades of all players in an organization who are 22 years old or younger as of Sept. 15, 2020, regardless of how many NHL games they’ve played, to go along with the rest of the players in the pipeline.

It will not include skaters older than 22 as of Sept. 15, 2020, who have played 25 NHL games in a season or 50 career games; goalies with 10 games in a season or 25 in a career; nor any player age 26 or older as of Sept. 15, 2020.

Thus, all players from the 2016 to 2019 NHL drafts who were first-year eligible at their draft are incorporated into this year’s organizational rankings”