Management Thread. A Fist Full of Dollars: Gunslinger Final Edition, Pt IlI

[VanJack]

J.T. Miller is one of the 'leaders' on this Canuck team. Rest assured he's only saying what a lot of other players are probably thinking. By force-feeding a bunch of young guys into the lineup, the Canuck braintrust is sending out a signal that the 2021 season (whenever it starts) might be 'expendable' in terms of the team's overall evolution.

By the end of next season, a flock of mostly bad contracts are expiring. And the Canucks will have a lot more cap flexibility, even after re-upping Hughes and Pettersson. And there's always the expectation that the 2021-22 season will finally be a 'normal' NHL season with fans in the building and revenues back.

At least that's my take on it. And if true, you can hardly expect the veteran players to be thrilled about it.

 

[iloovRMB]

Oh my god, the lengths some will go to paint a doom and gloom / worst possible interpretation of Miller's interview is incredible. The only way to do this is to fixate on a single word "shocking" and running with it while ignoring the entire rest of the interview. Intellectual dishonesty reaches new heights daily in this thread.

 

[4Twenty]

to pile on, most teams that trade away their first and second round picks for veteran players don't let all their free agents walk the same summer.

Yup I’ve done some half assed research a while ago and most teams who trade a first rounder for now help after a prolonged period in the basement never really hit the heights they hoped for. The most successful was the Flyers but they got Timonen and Hartnell for it.

The Islanders for Vanek. The Leafs for Kessel.

Those teams were certainly it expecting to have to reboot.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Are you kidding me? It’s a reboot because we lost those players, and Miller called losing those players “shocking”. To not conclude that the reboot itself was also “shocking” to Miller is pure lunacy. Are you trying to tell me that Miller was simultaneously shocked to see those players but not shocked to see the reboot resulting from the loss of those players? Do you see how ridiculous your position is? You are doubling down on stupid interpretations.

Notwithstanding the above, you still failed to address the thrust of my point.

Miller does not say the 'reboot' was shocking ..'we do have good young talented players who can take over, at a very young age'


You manufactured the the glaring 'shocking reboot' ..Do you see how dishonest that was..?..I'll ask you again..Where did he say 'shocking reboot'..?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Oh my god, the lengths some will go to paint a doom and gloom / worst possible interpretation of Miller's interview is incredible. The only way to do this is to fixate on a single word "shocking" and running with it while ignoring the entire rest of the interview. Intellectual dishonesty reaches new heights daily in this thread.

No kidding...pathetic.

 

[iloovRMB]

Tanev -> Schmidt is an upgrade
Holtby -> Markstrom is a short term downgrade but relieves our collective anxiety about losing Demko to the expansion draft
Toffoli is not a top 6 difference maker on a playoff team and especially not on a contending team

I don't really see how we've taken a huge step back. If anything, the growth of our young players should collectively contribute to another step forward next season with Holtby/Demko being the wild cards.

 

[4Twenty]

Pathetic is attempting to re-define words in the language.

Also picking and choosing when to apply standards to the communication is always hilarious.


Signs of a Clear agenda of being disingenuous.

 

[iloovRMB]

Most teams who acquire an established veteran nhl player for a first round pick are on the ascension. It is “shocking” that a team coming out of the 6 year period where they missed the playoffs 5 times would be needing a “reboot”. That’s not normal hockey player trained public relations chatter like the rest.

I don’t doubt he’s excited about Schmidt or that Holtby’s career to date has earned his respect. I highly doubt JT knows that Holtby but up a .897 last year.

 

[4Twenty]

Also if you’re using a time line to make a point and it’s erroneous it’s tough to pass it off as a mistake and not a clear agenda.

Benning wanted to be good in year 4. He made the playoffs aided by a pandemic in year 6 and his prized trade asset is shocked by the losses (for nothing) of quality players and now expects to reboot.

 

[Hodgy]

Miller does not say the 'reboot' was shocking ..'we do have good young talented players who can take over, at a very young age'


You manufactured the the glaring 'shocking reboot' ..Do you see how dishonest that was..?..I'll ask you again..Where did he say 'shocking reboot'..?

Jesus Christ. The reboot is literally the result of the loss of players. The loss of players was shocking to Miller. Therefore, the reboot was shocking to Miller. This is like the most basic logical reasoning. What part of this reasoning are you challenging?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

“This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”...Jim Benning did not say this.

JT Miller says Canucks are due for a 'shocking retool"....JT Miller did not say this, or imply it.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Jesus Christ. The reboot is literally the result of the loss of players. The loss of players was shocking to Miller. Therefore, the reboot was shocking to Miller. This is like the most basic logical reasoning. What part of this reasoning are you challenging?

No its not..the 'retool' wasn't shocking...losing veteran players was...'shocking retool' was your dishonest attempt to piece two unrelated topics together.
Try again.

 

[4Twenty]

“This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”...Jim Benning did not say this.

JT Miller says Canucks are due for a 'shocking retool"....JT Miller did not say this, or imply it.

Why is it in quotes? That’s the gist of what he said no matter the semantics debate.

Both times.

He was shocked to losing players which has led to an expected reboot. Anybody without a serious comprehension problem or an agenda to only apply communication standards when it suits can see the logical course of what was said. Was not expecting to reboot, thus the shock of losing a significant chunk of team quality. In both situations it’s painfully obvious to see the hypocrisy in standards applied to the speech.

 

[4Twenty]

shocked
adjective

surprised or upset because something unexpected and usually unpleasant has happened:

SHOCKED | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

shock1
/SHäk/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
Medicine
Farming
verb
past tense: shocked; past participle: shocked

1. 1.
   cause (someone) to feel surprised and upset.

Add shocked to autonomy and narrative!!!

 

[Hodgy]

No its not..the 'retool' wasn't shocking...losing veteran players was...'shocking retool' was your dishonest attempt to piece two unrelated topics together.
Try again.

This is unbelievable. You think Miller thought that the reboot - which was the direct result of players leaving - was not shocking, but that Miller was shocked by those players leaving?

And you think those players leaving is “unrelated” to the reboot he was referring to? Was he referring to Reboot the old TV show? This is insane. You are so, so, very off. You’ve become unhinged.

 

[Hodgy]

Why is it in quotes? That’s the gist of what he said no matter the semantics debate.

Both times.

He was shocked to losing players which has led to an expected reboot. Anybody without a serious comprehension problem or an agenda to only apply communication standards when it suits can see the logical course of what was said. Was not expecting to reboot, thus the shock of losing a significant chunk of team quality. In both situations it’s painfully obvious to see the hypocrisy in standards applied to the speech.

It’s painful. He’s tripling down on absurd interpretations. Imagine reading those comments and concluding that the departing players Miller referred to are not related to the reboot he referred to. It’s incomprehensible.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

PoM is divorced from reality. Not sure if he’s just an attention-seeking contrarian or astroturfer though. Either way, he’s doing more harm to the pro-Benning crowd’s reputation on here than good.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Losing good players was shocking to Miller, which he described as a reboot, but the reboot wasn't shocking. What?

If there is a cause and effect, and you are surprised the of the cause (losing good players), are you surprised of the effect (having to reboot)? COVID was very shocking. The whole world had to lockdown. Is it okay to say the lockdown is shocking? I got hit in the head with a tomahawk. It was very shocking. I had to get 74 stitches and look like Scarface. "Nobody said that the giant scare on your face was shocking". My house burned down in a fire, it was very shocking. I am now homeless. Is saying shocking homelessness dishonest?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not sure if he’s just an attention-seeking contrarian or astroturfer though. Either way, he’s doing more harm to the pro-Benning crowd’s reputation on here than good.

is he a hetfield or is he a lars?

 

[4Twenty]

if Toffoli isn't a top 6 on a playoff team (forget the Kings cup year I guess) then what do you think about the 2nd rounder and top prospect given up in return for 17 games of the player? Especially when a reboot is expected the very next season.

Toffoli had 4 points in the toughest playoff series the team played (in 6 games) the only 3 players, not just forwards who produced more for the team were Miller, Hughes and Pettersson. I'll go with Petey's view on the player, vs the guy who's former account was probably praising the addition at the deadline.

I also think only people who have really low expectations of this GM would have ever thought the Canucks were going to lose Demko to the expansion draft. They could've re-signed Markstrom (which they tried to do up until the 11th hour) and traded Demko for a serious haul in the offseason or looked to use the tandem and flip him at the deadline to a team needing a goalie worth protecting. I think it's foolish to think losing him for nothing was a truly realistic option.

How do you not see a step back when the team scored 12 goals against Vegas.

They lost a defensman who allowed Quinn to play reasonable top 4 minutes, they lost a 3rd pair defensman who can play against top lines at 5 on 5. They lost one of their 6 most productive forwards in that series.

Which "young players" are going to be pushing even further, Pettersson is already a top 10 Goal differential player as is, it's not like there is a massive amount that can move.

Schmidt is a good player, he's not a top 10/15 defensman in the league and I haven't been able to track down anything that suggests it. I think he's a #2 at best in the 40-50 range of the league, maybe he's more in Vancouver, but I can't see his numbers improving on a much shallower team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Miller said he was 'shocked' at losing his veteran teammates..which obviously means a ' a bit of a reboot'..(with" talented young players"..JT Miller)...Nowhere does he say he is shocked at the reboot...In fact , he is very complimentary of the young players, in the first part of his quotes, and the second part (which Taj conveniently left out).

And this is just a deliberate dishonest attempt at hyperbolic 'fake news' ....How did a 'bit of a reboot' become a."Shocking Reboot".?...Totally out of context and misleading.

"He’s highlighting your obvious hypocrisy. When Benning makes his yearly proclamation it’s just PR crap, when Miller is optimistic (literally following his statements on what a shocking reboot this is) you take these at face value and even seemingly use them to dismiss his earlier comments about the shocking reboot.

Also, how can a shocking reboot be in the nature of the business? If something is in the nature of the business, it isn’t going to be shocking to those in that business. You come up with the quackiest interpretations on a routine basis."..Hodgy.​

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Losing good players was shocking to Miller, which he described as a reboot, but the reboot wasn't shocking. What?

If there is a cause and effect, and you are surprised the of the cause (losing good players), are you surprised of the effect (having to reboot)? COVID was very shocking. The whole world had to lockdown. Is it okay to say the lockdown is shocking? I got hit in the head with a tomahawk. It was very shocking. I had to get 74 stitches and look like Scarface. "Nobody said that the giant scare on your face was shocking". My house burned down in a fire, it was very shocking. I am now homeless. Is saying shocking homelessness dishonest?

Which Miller described as 'a bit of a reboot'...which is a far cry from the hyperbolic over exaggerated 'shocking reboot'.....

Further on in that same article On Schmidt ”He's hard to play against. We're super pumped to have him" On Holtby: "one of the elite goalies in the league” ...

 

[I am toxic]

Anyone subscribe to the Athletic?

Pronman appears to have updated his so-called "farm system" rankings post draft, and am wondering if we improved our position from 3rd best?

Since HFBenning was crowing about the ranking back in September, I find it - just like Miller finding the team in a re-boot with the loss of key players - absolutely shocking that HFBenning has not brought up our new and presumably improved position in Pronman's rankings.

 

[4Twenty]

The dishonest attempt is cutting the whole thing up and interjecting in between what he actually said. Nobody is exaggerating extremely here, that's why hyperbole is. They're saying he's shocked by the subtractions leading to the expected reboot. It's classic deflection to start arguing about the semantics. The "bit of a reboot" was an unexpected and shocking outcome after showing they were "right there".


The reboot in JT Miller's mind was NOT EXPECTED, that's why it shocked him. Any other interpretation is a pathetic attempt to deflect.

 

[Peen]

Anyone subscribe to the Athletic?

Pronman appears to have updated his so-called "farm system" rankings post draft, and am wondering if we improved our position from 3rd best?

Since HFBenning was crowing about the ranking back in September, I find it - just like Miller finding the team in a re-boot with the loss of key players - absolutely shocking that HFBenning has not brought up our new and presumably improved position in Pronman's rankings.

we fell to 8th

it's not really farm system only - it's basically prospects + nhl players drafted in 2016 or later

so toronto's includes matthews and ours includes EP/Hughes

pens/caps/sharks are so f***ed lmao