Management Thread. A Fist Full of Dollars: Gunslinger Final Edition, Pt IlI

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4Twenty

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It obviously sucks to lose teammates to a cap crunch, but if anybody understands the 'name of the game' .....its Miller... , who himself was moved for cap reasons.
For a team going for a cup not a reboot.

Imagine thinking moves to put the finishing touches on a Cup Winner is at similar to rebooting a team that just missed the playoffs 4 years straight.

The words “shocked” stand out. Also that they felt they were “right there” only to be getting rebooted is pretty telling.

Hockey players are taught not to talk like that.
 

Fatass

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It obviously sucks to lose teammates to a cap crunch, but if anybody understands the 'name of the game' .....its Miller... , who himself was moved for cap reasons.
Guys certainly understand the reasoning, but that doesn’t mean they like it, especially when losing three key players (clearly) makes them a far worse team. Miller knows the team is a lot worse off now, than having those three extremely important players lost.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Miller is only saying what most people already know.....this COVID shortened season with the likelihood of no fans in the building, and a hybrid Canadian division that will last for only one season, is shaping up as a 'development year' for the Canucks. Wouldn't shock me at all that when the smoke clears, they're back in the lottery.

At the end of next season, a lot of contracts are coming off the books. Sutter, Benn, Baertschi, Edler and possibly Holtby if he's exposed in the expansion draft, could all depart. And the backbreaking contract for Eriksson, along with Beagle and Roussel would only have one year left to run. Surely they can buy out at least one or possibly even all three of those contracts. Wouldn't save much cap space, but would clear out some deadwood and open up the roster.

Of course they'll need a lot of that money to re-up Pettersson and Hughes....but at least they'd be in a position to 'take advantage' of some capped out teams like they did when they acquired Nate Schmidt. Right now they just have too many bad contracts--which really is the reason why they lost so many UFA's this off-season.
The other part of the quote shows Miller to be very enthusiastic about the coming season..I think posters are taking the Miller 'reboot' comment a bit out of context...

"The Canucks iced 10 playoffs newbies last season. Elias Pettersson matched Miller for the club lead with 18 playoff points (7-11) while Quinn Hughes had 16 points (2-14).
“I was very impressed by how well our guys adapted and how guys bought into roles to try and win,” said Miller. “It’s exciting for what’s going to come next.”
Especially if Holtby can return to Vezina Trophy form (2016) and Schmidt becomes a top-pairing force.
“Schmidt was matched against me and Petey in the playoffs and he’s fast,” said Miller. “He doesn’t give you much time and space and he can get up the ice really quickly and make plays. He’s hard to play against. We’re super pumped to have him.
“I have a lot of respect for Holtby and everything he has done with Washington and I’m trying to forget what he did to us in Tampa Bay (2018 Game 7 conference final loss). He’s one of the elite goalies in the league.” Kuzma,Province.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Guys certainly understand the reasoning, but that doesn’t mean they like it, especially when losing three key players (clearly) makes them a far worse team. Miller knows the team is a lot worse off now, than having those three extremely important players lost.
Throughout most of last season we didnt have Toffoli (and he was a non factor in the playoffs)...Schmidt over Tanev,..Losing Marky bites, but we could only keep one goalie..

Are they a 'far worse' team.?..no....Are they a better team.?..probably no again (but we shall see).
 

Fatass

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Throughout most of last season we didnt have Toffoli (and he was a non factor in the playoffs)...Schmidt over Tanev,..Losing Marky bites, but we could only keep one goalie..

Are they a 'far worse' team.?..no....Are they a better team.?..probably no again (but we shall see).
Reading what Miller said, and it’s obvious (from his word choice) he believes we are worse off now than before we lost those three key guys. 420 pointed it out quite clearly in his post a couple above.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Reading what Miller said, and it’s obvious (from his word choice) he believes we are worse off now than before we lost those three key guys. 420 pointed it out quite clearly in his post a couple above.
“I was very impressed by how well our guys adapted and how guys bought into roles to try and win,” said Miller. “It’s exciting for what’s going to come next.”..Miller..

Step away from the ledge Larry...
 

I am toxic

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Wow, even Miller acknowledges that the young guys were able to adapt and thrive in tight playoff hockey.

All those overpaid long term mentors that Benning brought in were not only less than useless, they could learn a thing or two from Petey and Hughes how to step it up in the playoffs.
 

Hodgy

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It obviously sucks to lose teammates to a cap crunch, but if anybody understands the 'name of the game' .....its Miller... , who himself was moved for cap reasons.

Yes, Miller would definitely equate being moved from a perennially dominant team because that team was capped out, to a borderline playoff team loosing very good veteran players because that team has like $20 million dollars tied up in negative value. You’ve definitely accurately set that out.
 

VanJack

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Jeff Paterson on with Sekaras speculating that the Aquilini's have brought the hammer down on any further expenditures on player personnel. So what you see, is what you get for the upcoming season.

I suppose that by some miracle the Canucks' top four d-men could remain healthy all year. But more likely they're going to be riding raw rookies for a portion of this compressed schedule. And it could get ugly fast, unless Demko and Holtby are all-world.
 

Jack Burton

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Jeff Paterson on with Sekaras speculating that the Aquilini's have brought the hammer down on any further expenditures on player personnel. So what you see, is what you get for the upcoming season.

I suppose that by some miracle the Canucks' top four d-men could remain healthy all year. But more likely they're going to be riding raw rookies for a portion of this compressed schedule. And it could get ugly fast, unless Demko and Holtby are all-world.
Absolutely this idiot should. Benning has blown like half a BILLION on this team over the years.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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What about "big" & "shocking" in Miller's comments?

Do you think that has no revelance?
When he's talking about teammates leaving..of course its shocking...but unfortunately, thats the nature of the 'business'..He understands that.

Again, read the second part of Millers quotes (which Taj conveniently left out)..He's totally pumped looking ahead to next season.
 
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VanJack

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When he's talking about teammates leaving..of course its shocking...but unfortunately, thats the nature of the 'business'..He understands that.

Again, read the second part of Millers quotes (which Taj conveniently left out)..He's totally pumped looking ahead to next season.
Normally I'd agree with you. But to say that the Canucks lost all their UFA's because that's the 'nature of the business'....then you'd have to concede that having some of the worst contracts for bottom-six wingers in the entire league, is also the 'nature of the business'.

That may be the 'nature of the business' but it's also 'bad business'. And it forces your hand in other areas, like retaining your free agents. That's what probably disappoints Miller the most.
 

Peen

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Again, read the second part of Millers quotes (which Taj conveniently left out)..He's totally pumped looking ahead to next season.

think it's unfortunate that you would say that benning's yearly pressers where he says "we expect to compete for a playoff spot" in those bad team years like 17-18 were PR typical hockey stuff that shouldn't be taken at face value (which you're absolutely right on for those later years of us being bad) but then say miller saying typical PR shit about being excited for new young guys over the established good veterans leaving should be taken at face value lol
 
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bandwagonesque

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Jeff Paterson on with Sekaras speculating that the Aquilini's have brought the hammer down on any further expenditures on player personnel. So what you see, is what you get for the upcoming season.

I suppose that by some miracle the Canucks' top four d-men could remain healthy all year. But more likely they're going to be riding raw rookies for a portion of this compressed schedule. And it could get ugly fast, unless Demko and Holtby are all-world.
How does a journalist speculating about an owner’s intentions and essentially admitting he doesn’t know make that speculation a certainty?
 
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VanJack

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How does a journalist speculating about an owner’s intentions and essentially admitting he doesn’t know make that speculation a certainty?
From what I understand, Paterson's speculation came after an interview with Benning who seemed pretty vague about adding any more contracts before the start of the season. Of course the Canucks would have to shed salary for that to happen anyway...and other than Ferland on LTIR, what other options are there?

And it makes sense. The owners lost billions in playoff revenues last year and are facing empty buildings again this year. At some point, a business with no revenues coming in has to clamp down on the payroll side....and according to Paterson, the Canucks have already laid off 50 staffers.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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think it's unfortunate that you would say that benning's yearly pressers where he says "we expect to compete for a playoff spot" in those bad team years like 17-18 were PR typical hockey stuff that shouldn't be taken at face value (which you're absolutely right on for those later years of us being bad) but then say miller saying typical PR shit about being excited for new young guys over the established good veterans leaving should be taken at face value lol
In the 17/18 and 18/19 seasons..Benning never said he thought them to be a playoff team...Most of his messaging was for them to be 'competitive'.

Where in the 'second part' of Millers quotes does he talk PR shit about the young guys?..

Unless this is insincere PR shit...?...“I was very impressed by how well our guys adapted and how guys bought into roles to try and win,” said Miller. “It’s exciting for what’s going to come next.”
 

Hodgy

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In the 17/18 and 18/19 seasons..Benning never said he thought them to be a playoff team...Most of his messaging was for them to be 'competitive'.

Where in the 'second part' of Millers quotes does he talk PR shit about the young guys?..

Unless this is insincere PR shit...?...“I was very impressed by how well our guys adapted and how guys bought into roles to try and win,” said Miller. “It’s exciting for what’s going to come next.”

He’s highlighting your obvious hypocrisy. When Benning makes his yearly proclamation it’s just PR crap, when Miller is optimistic (literally following his statements on what a shocking reboot this is) you take these at face value and even seemingly use them to dismiss his earlier comments about the shocking reboot.

Also, how can a shocking reboot be in the nature of the business? If something is in the nature of the business, it isn’t going to be shocking to those in that business. You come up with the quackiest interpretations on a routine basis.
 

Peen

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Yup. There's certain comments where it's so pointed that it's obviously not PR garbage typical "get pucks deep work hard" type statements.

I just watched a bit of the 2017-2018 training camp conference.

Here's an example of a statement that doesn't come across as PR garbage as it's pointed and going out of the way to make a point.

"We've tried to rebuild our organization. Conceivably, we could have between 8-10 players kids playing in Utica that are going to be NHL players."

Demko, Dahlen, Brisebois, Cassels, Goldobin, MacEwen are six guys I'd assume were seen as part of that group. No idea who else he would be referring to from the group that started that season in the AHL.

Here's an example of a throwaway comment from that presser.

Benning: “We want the kids to be in a competitive environment – to learn to play the right way, to be held accountable by the older players. We want to be competitive in all the games. We want to compete for a playoff spot, we want to see the continued growth in our young players. We’re going to have a competitive training camp this year. We have a lot of extra players – some young players who are hungry and want to push for jobs. That’s what training camp and exhibition games are for.”

^ From the Bob McKenzie interview.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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He’s highlighting your obvious hypocrisy. When Benning makes his yearly proclamation it’s just PR crap, when Miller is optimistic (literally following his statements on what a shocking reboot this is) you take these at face value and even seemingly use them to dismiss his earlier comments about the shocking reboot.

Also, how can a shocking reboot be in the nature of the business? If something is in the nature of the business, it isn’t going to be shocking to those in that business. You come up with the quackiest interpretations on a routine basis.
Too funny...I'm quite sure most GM's put a positive spin on their teams prior to the season, do they not?..Miller talks about losing some of the veteran leadership in the room, which he reveals as 'shocking'...Then claims its 'a bit of a reboot' with good young talented players coming in to take the spots.

You turned that into a 'shocking reboot'...Do you see what you did there..?...Where did he say 'shocking reboot'..????

Try again.
 

4Twenty

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He’s highlighting your obvious hypocrisy. When Benning makes his yearly proclamation it’s just PR crap, when Miller is optimistic (literally following his statements on what a shocking reboot this is) you take these at face value and even seemingly use them to dismiss his earlier comments about the shocking reboot.

Also, how can a shocking reboot be in the nature of the business? If something is in the nature of the business, it isn’t going to be shocking to those in that business. You come up with the quackiest interpretations on a routine basis.
It’s just so sad and predictable. The last few pages of the last thread and the start of this one has some outrageous interpretations and claims.

My favourite was the suggestion that based on the clubs later drafts, it would “be easy” to argue Benning wanted Nylander and Pastrnak. Even when the man is on record saying he wanted the meat and potatoes player and he described the Jake pick as a “perfect pick for us”. Followed by a 6’7” 270lbs dman, I think that’s as laughable a claim as I’ve ever read hfbenning produce.
 

4Twenty

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Most teams who acquire an established veteran nhl player for a first round pick are on the ascension. It is “shocking” that a team coming out of the 6 year period where they missed the playoffs 5 times would be needing a “reboot”. That’s not normal hockey player trained public relations chatter like the rest.

I don’t doubt he’s excited about Schmidt or that Holtby’s career to date has earned his respect. I highly doubt JT knows that Holtby but up a .897 last year.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Most teams who acquire an established veteran nhl player for a first round pick are on the ascension. It is “shocking” that a team coming out of the 6 year period where they missed the playoffs 5 times would be needing a “reboot”. That’s not normal hockey player trained public relations chatter like the rest.

to pile on, most teams that trade away their first and second round picks for veteran players don't let all their free agents walk the same summer.
 

Hodgy

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Too funny...I'm quite sure most GM's put a positive spin on their teams prior to the season, do they not?..Miller talks about losing some of the veteran leadership in the room, which he reveals as 'shocking'...Then claims its 'a bit of a reboot' with good young talented players coming in to take the spots.

You turned that into a 'shocking reboot'...Do you see what you did there..?...Where did he say 'shocking reboot'..????

Try again.

Are you kidding me? It’s a reboot because we lost those players, and Miller called losing those players “shocking”. To not conclude that the reboot itself was also “shocking” to Miller is pure lunacy. Are you trying to tell me that Miller was simultaneously shocked to see those players but not shocked to see the reboot resulting from the loss of those players? Do you see how ridiculous your position is? You are doubling down on stupid interpretations.

Notwithstanding the above, you still failed to address the thrust of my point.
 
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