Speculation: Management changes expected to occur swiftly after season ends

[Pookie]

A blind monkey could have given the Leafs better assets than what we had in ~2008 when Burke took over.

I think a monkey with 20/20 vision would be fine too. The key variable here isn't sight, it's the ability to use a phone with random success.

I do however like your pro-accessibility stance.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I feel bad for Horachek
This team hung him out to dry. Quit.
And if he gets fired and some others go, but Nonis stays, there's something seriously wrong with that.

I really hate this team

 

[Warden of the North]

I just hope they pick up a competent GM... Blake sounds great but close to zero experience makes it a little risky.

I don't know much about Sean Burke. Goalie coach right now, so hard to know what kind of exec he'd be.

One thing is for sure, Shanahan can't take the 'patient' route with his coaches and execs anymore. He made a huge mistake keeping Carlyle last year, he can't do the same with Nonis. He made some monumental mistakes that we can't turn a blind eye to.

Burke has been the AGM in Arizona since 2012, as well as the goalie coach

 

[SprDaVE]

Burke has been the AGM in Arizona since 2012, as well as the goalie coach

Oh... didn't realize that. That makes more sense.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Hard to see Nonis going unless they have someone else readily available. Especially if they plan to move Kessel/Phaneuf/Bozak etc. I have no idea how much (or if) Nonis has been setting the table for these deals.

Ray Shero is out there maybe they hire him

 

[Mess]

I feel bad for Horachek
This team hung him out to dry. Quit.
And if he gets fired and some others go, but Nonis stays, there's something seriously wrong with that.

I really hate this team

Firing 2 coaches in the same season points to the problem being player personnel related and that points directly at the GM who provided them for the coaching staff.

Leafs already fired the GM responsible for bringing most of the core players to TO, but left his right hand man in place to finish the job carrying his torch forward.

You need new blood to cleanup what others messed up.

 

[Mess]

I'd be supportive of a management team that consisted of:

Brendan Shanahan - President
Cliff Fletcher - Senior Advisor to the President
Rob Blake - General Manager
Kyle Dubas - Assistant General Manager & Advanced Stats Analyst.
Sean Burke - Assistant General Manager & Goalie Coach.
Brandon Pridham - Assistant to the General Manager as Capologist.
Mark Hunter - Director, Amateur Scouting, and Player Development
Joe Neuwendyk - Director, Professional Scouting
Gary Roberts - Director of Player Development & Fitness Trainer

Coaching Staff - TBD as most coaches are still employed presently.

#DeBurkenize begins.

 

[stanleyorbust]

They need to remove any of the long term department heads. I'd start with Dave Morrison. They don't need him for the draft. His team has done very little in the last 10 years so some new direction in that group is needed.

 

[ULF_55]

Everyone under Shanahan needs to be let go except Dubas, Hunter & Steve Staios. Start fresh for once instead of going backwards as Daisy Jane wrote.

1st & most important change that needs to be done is, get rid of Morrison and the rest of the Leafs Scouting. Then Nonis.

Horachek seems like a solid dude, but he also needs to go.

Welcome to the Leafs McDavid!

I find it very hard to believe that they will gut our scouting staff. This is one of the biggest and deepest drafts in ages now. All the input we have gotten all year needs to have the right people deciphering it and making the best decisions possible.

How do you rebuild your scouting dept and hope to have any sort of direction in time for the draft? I say we give Morrison and company another couple of years with high first round picks of our own and any other picks we can put together vis trades.
Something we have not done whatsoever. With what we have had pick wise I think he hasn't done that bad. We haven't had many picks so the bad ones are amplified by there not being twice as many who became something.

I doubt they'll gut the scouting staff, anymore than a new CEO would fire all the staff of a company they takeover.

Often there are intelligent voices drowned out by yes-men, suck-ups, or the entourage. It's up to Shanahan, or more likely Hunter, to find those voices.

If anything, I could see Morrison being let go due to the lack of results since he was put in charge. The competition for Morrison isn't who he replaced it is the best scouting teams around the league. How do his results compare? If you looked at Tampa and compared to Toronto, would you say the Leafs have the same contributing assets as the Lightning?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008385.html
versus
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008490.html

Compare Morrison period to the same period for the Lightning?

Is that fair? Is that cherry picking? That's the competition, the better scouting teams, not the worst ones.

Kessel is the Leafs Stamkos if you want to be generous.

2009-2014

Draft|Num.|Round|Player|Pos|Drafted From|GP|G|A|Pts|PIM
2009 Entry|2|1|Victor Hedman|D|MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SEL]|392|39|143|182|338
2009 Entry|29|1|Carter Ashton|R|Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]|54|0|3|3|32
2009 Entry|52|2|Richard Panik|R|Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]|151|19|20|39|74
2009 Entry|93|4|Alex Hutchings|L|Barrie Colts [OHL]|||||
2009 Entry|148|5|Michael Zador|G|Oshawa Generals [OHL]|||||
2009 Entry|162|6|Jaroslav Janus|G|Erie Otters [OHL]|||||
2009 Entry|183|7|Kirill Gotovets|D|Shattuck St. Mary's (Minn)|||||
2010 Entry|6|1|Brett Connolly|R|Prince George Cougars [WHL]|139|18|16|34|82
2010 Entry|63|3|Brock Beukeboom|D|Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]|||||
2010 Entry|66|3|Radko Gudas|D|Everett Silvertips [WHL]|126|7|25|32|224
2010 Entry|72|3|Adam Janosik|D|Gatineau Olympiques [QMJHL]|||||
2010 Entry|96|4|Geoffrey Schemitsch|D|Owen Sound Attack [OHL]|||||
2010 Entry|118|4|Jimmy Mullin|F|Shattuck St. Mary's [Minn.]|||||
2010 Entry|156|6|Brendan O'Donnell|F|Winnipeg South Blues [MJHL]|||||
2010 Entry|186|7|Teigan Zahn|D|Saskatoon Blades [WHL]|||||
2011 Entry|27|1|Vladislav Namestnikov|C|London Knights [OHL]|47|9|7|16|17
2011 Entry|58|2|Nikita Kucherov|R|CSKA Jr. (Russia)|134|37|45|82|51
2011 Entry|148|5|Nikita Nesterov|D|Cherepovets Jr. (Russia)|27|3|4|7|16
2011 Entry|178|6|Adam Wilcox|G|Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]|||||
2011 Entry|201|7|Matthew Peca|C|Pembroke Lumber Kings [CCHL]|||||
2011 Entry|208|7|Ondrej Palat|L|Drummondville Voltigeurs [QMJHL]|170|41|85|126|44
2012 Entry|10|1|Slater Koekkoek|D|Peterborough Petes [OHL]|3|0|0|0|2
2012 Entry|19|1|Andrei Vasilevskiy|G|Ufa Tolpar (Russia)|16|0|0|0|0
2012 Entry|40|2|Dylan Blujus|D|Brampton Battalion [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|53|2|Brian Hart|R|Exeter Academy [NH H.S.]|||||
2012 Entry|71|3|Tanner Richard|L|Guelph Storm [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|101|4|Cedric Paquette|C|Blainville-Boisbriand Armada [QMJHL]|66|12|8|20|51
2012 Entry|161|6|Jake Dotchin|D|Owen Sound Attack [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|202|7|Nikita Gusev|F|CSKA Moscow [KHL]|||||
2013 Entry|3|1|Jonathan Drouin|L|Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]|70|4|28|32|34
2013 Entry|33|2|Adam Erne|L|Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]|||||
2013 Entry|124|5|Kristers Gudlevskis|G|Riga Jrs. (Russia)|1|0|0|0|0
2013 Entry|154|6|Henri Ikonen|L|Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]|||||
2013 Entry|184|7|Saku Salminen|F|Vantaa Jrs. (Finland)|||||
2013 Entry|186|7|Joel Vermin|F|Bern [Swiss-A]|||||
2014 Entry|19|1|Anthony DeAngelo|D|Sarnia Sting [OHL]|||||
2014 Entry|35|2|Dominik Masin|D|Slavia (Czech Jrs.)|||||
2014 Entry|57|2|Johnathan MacLeod|D|U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]|||||
2014 Entry|79|3|Brayden Point|C|Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]|||||
2014 Entry|119|4|Ben Thomas|D|Calgary Hitmen [WHL]|||||
2014 Entry|170|6|Cristiano DiGiacinto|F|Windsor Spitfires [OHL]|||||
2014 Entry|185|7|Cameron Darcy|F|Cape Breton Screaming Eagles [QMJHL]|||||
Total Results||||||1396|189|384|573|965

Draft|Num.|Round|Player|Pos|Drafted From|GP|G|A|Pts|PIM
2009 Entry|7|1|Nazem Kadri|C|London Knights [OHL]|250|64|88|152|134
2009 Entry|50|2|Kenny Ryan|R|U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]|||||
2009 Entry|58|2|Jesse Blacker|D|Windsor Spitfires [OHL]|1|0|0|0|0
2009 Entry|68|3|Jamie Devane|L|Plymouth Whalers [OHL]|2|0|0|0|0
2009 Entry|128|5|Eric Knodel|D|Philadelphia Jr. Flyers|||||
2009 Entry|158|6|Jerry D'Amigo|L|U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]|31|1|2|3|2
2009 Entry|188|7|Barron Smith|D|Peterborough Petes [OHL]|||||
2010 Entry|43|2|Brad Ross|L|Portland Winterhawks [WHL]|||||
2010 Entry|62|3|Greg McKegg|C|Erie Otters [OHL]|4|0|0|0|0
2010 Entry|79|3|Sondre Olden|R|Modo Jr. [Sweden]|||||
2010 Entry|116|4|Petter Granberg|D|Skelleftea Jr. [Sweden]|8|0|0|0|6
2010 Entry|144|5|Sam Carrick|C|Brampton Battalion [OHL]|16|1|1|2|9
2010 Entry|146|5|Daniel Brodin|R|Djurgardens IF Stockholm [SEL]|||||
2010 Entry|182|7|Josh Nicholls|R|Saskatoon Blades [WHL]|||||
2011 Entry|22|1|Tyler Biggs|R|U.S. National Development Team [USHL]|||||
2011 Entry|25|1|Stuart Percy|D|Mississauga St. Michael's Majors [OHL]|9|0|3|3|2
2011 Entry|86|3|Joshua Leivo|L|Sudbury Wolves [OHL]|16|2|1|3|4
2011 Entry|100|4|Tom Nilsson|D|Mora Jr. [Sweden]|||||
2011 Entry|130|5|Tony Cameranesi|C|Wayzata H.S. (Minn.)|||||
2011 Entry|152|6|David Broll|L|Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]|5|0|1|1|5
2011 Entry|173|6|Dennis Robertson|D|Brown University [ECAC]|||||
2011 Entry|190|7|Garret Sparks|G|Guelph Storm [OHL]|||||
2011 Entry|203|7|Max Everson|D|Edina H.S. (Minn.)|||||
2012 Entry|5|1|Morgan Rielly|D|Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]|154|10|46|56|26
2012 Entry|35|2|Matt Finn|D|Guelph Storm [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|126|5|Dominic Toninato|F|Duluth East [Minn. H.S.]|||||
2012 Entry|156|6|Connor Brown|R|Erie Otters [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|157|6|Ryan Rupert|C|London Knights [OHL]|||||
2012 Entry|209|7|Viktor Loov|D|Sodertalje SK [Swe-1]|||||
2013 Entry|21|1|Frederik Gauthier|C|Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]|||||
2013 Entry|82|3|Carter Verhaeghe|C|Niagara IceDogs [OHL]|||||
2013 Entry|142|5|Fabrice Herzog|R|Zug Jrs. (Switzerland)|||||
2013 Entry|172|6|Antoine Bibeau|G|Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]|||||
2013 Entry|202|7|Andreas Johnson|R|Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)|||||
2014 Entry|8|1|William Nylander|C|MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]|||||
2014 Entry|68|3|Rinat Valiev|D|Kootenay Ice [WHL]|||||
2014 Entry|103|4|J.J. Piccinich|F|Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]|||||
2014 Entry|128|5|Dakota Joshua|F|Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]|||||
2014 Entry|158|6|Nolan Vesey|F|South Shore Kings [USPHL-Pr]|||||
2014 Entry|188|7|Pierre Engvall|L|Frolunda (Sweden Jrs.)|||||
Total Results||||||496|78|142|220|188

 

[SprDaVE]

I'd be supportive of a management team that consisted of:

Brendan Shanahan - President
Cliff Fletcher - Senior Advisor to the President
Rob Blake - General Manager
Kyle Dubas - Assistant General Manager & Advanced Stats Analyst.
Sean Burke - Assistant General Manager & Goalie Coach.
Brandon Pridham - Assistant to the General Manager as Capologist.
Mark Hunter - Director, Amateur Scouting, and Player Development
Joe Neuwendyk - Director, Professional Scouting
Gary Roberts - Director of Player Development & Fitness Trainer

Coaching Staff - TBD as most coaches are still employed presently.

#DeBurkenize begins.

I'd be down for something like this. I've been pushing for Blake for awhile. I think though Nieuwendyk is more of a manager type guy that a scout, even if it's a head scout position. His body of work so far as an exec is very poor as well. I think we can do better.

They really need to revamp their scouting department. The pro level scouts have been utter crap for too long and appear to have given this management team far too much bad information and reports. Enough is enough.

The amateur side of scouting has been at least average, but it shouldn't be average with our money. We should be one of the best drafting teams in this league bar none. So if Morrison has to be let go in order to get better, I'm fine with it. They can easily poach a head scout from another team with their money.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We've finished bottom 10 in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2015. Of course our assets now are better than they were when Burke took over. We've been adding top 10 pick value to the organization for over half a decade.

Some of it we've drafted ourselves (Kadri, Rielly, Nylander, and whoever we get is year), and others we've traded for (JVR and Kessel), but that value is still only on the organization because we had high 1sts or projected high 1sts.

A blind monkey could have given the Leafs better assets than what we had in ~2008 when Burke took over. Edmonton has more assets now than they did in 2009, that doesnt mean theyve done a good job.

Had we had a good solid PATIENT management group in place, we could already be a playoff team with a deep young organization. We've also bled assets for nothing year after year for only one single playoff return. Grabovski, MacArthur, Kulemin, McClement, Raymond, etc are all wasted assets, guys we let walk for nothing and didnt win a single playoff series for it. We should have more and better assets than what we have right now, management has at the end of the day, done a bad job.

At the end of the day there is no proof this team would have been better with the patient approach with our drafting and development history.

This organization has deeper problems than this. Winnipeg, Calgary, and Ottawa drafted and developed their players better. Again B Burke had 7.25 picks a draft, more than the league average, and all that we developed is Rielly that is looking like a good player right now. The rest have been disappointments.

Drafting and development will be the key. Patience is okay, but players that are ready should be up here. Look at the 18-21 year olds around the league, they develop quicker than ours. Why is that?

Dubas and Hunter are a start. If Blake and S Burke are coming aboard, then they will vault over those 2 on the Management hierarchy. And what I have said all along, Young NHL execs with NHL experience that were former players will be a welcome sight for me in running this team. Let S Burke and Blake run the team with input from Hunter on solely player evaluations.

Leafs Mgt staff have a major gap, that these 2 can fill. Then Shanahan can sit back be the Ken Dryden figurehead he seems to want to be.

S Burke and Blake. I would endorse this 100%. I brought up Blake before most here months ago. Maybe it will happen.

 

[timlap]

Leafs fans and media have ridiculous expectations of general managers. Although there are obviously reasonable individuals among the crowd, the collective effect of our complaining is ludicrous. We simultaneously demand a patient rebuild and instant success. We expect every trade to be a win and every signing to be a home run, and we demand that we should never let a successful prospect slide past our slot in the draft.

As soon as any of those things go wrong (or appear to) people begin demanding for the GM to be fired.

Although fans claim to be patient, there is a definite correlation between losses on the ice and extreme vocal unhappiness with management. You could argue that season has been notable for sensible decisions with a view to rebuilding (in fact I would argue that). But still fans and media are insistent on calling the season a disaster.

Fans and media claim to be okay with a rebuild, but only a fantasy rebuild that looks like a kid re-shaping his roster on a video game.

Our misses and failures are compared to other teams' successes- a sure way to make any management team appear incompetent.**

Pat Gillick was with the Blue Jays starting in 1978 and became GM in 1984. He didn't win a World Series until 1992, and experienced some spectacular failures en route. I am on the verge of giving up hope that the Leafs could ever display such patience.

Should we fire our GM? Honestly it's hard to think amidst all the noise we as a fan base create. But I don't see the point in firing a respected hockey person who has only been on the job for a little over two years. As far as I'm conceded we have already made major management changes

I would prefer we stick with a management team and let them learn on the job. Let them make some mistakes. Display actual patience. Give them ten years or more to put this thing together. But if we decide to keep Nonis, I honestly wonder if I will be the only poster on these boards who approves.

If we fire him then people will be temporarily (very temporarily) satisfied. But make no mistake, the same silly game will begin again quickly. As soon as the new GM is hired there will already be a significant portion of posters who "know" that he was the wrong choice. As soon as a trade is made, or a player signed, or the draft happens that group will get louder. If we lose a lot of games near the start of the season, the screaming will get louder still.

There are few guarantees in professional sports, but I'm confident that one year into his tenure the new GM will be widely hated around here. He will viewed as an incompetent buffoon. Fans will secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) believe they could do better than him. They will not see this as a ludicrous belief.

Only exception is if we suddenly become a winning team next season. Such things have happened before. This GM will be seen a slightly more competent, although in truth he will simply be building on the work of Nonis and Burke.

Failing that on-ice success, get ready to play the same game next season.

The revolving door keeps spinning.

The gentlemen who run MLSE continue to be blown by every wind. They'll always download the blame to the latest short term GM.

I love the Leafs, but I'm getting very tired of this circus after 30+ years as a rabid fan. Running a hockey team is not simple, but I think one thing is simple. Hire a management team and let them run the show. Let them take chances and make mistakes. Ignore the screeching media and screeching fans- we're basically idiots (not as individuals, but collectively). Plus we keep buying tickets and watching games anyway.

My only demand of management? Take a patient approach making heavy use of drafting developing, and don't be so foolish as to give up on players too quickly. Our current management appears to have bought into this thinking, so awesome. I vote for a team of Shanahan/Nonis/HUnter/Dubas.

I'm probably alone in this view, but there you go.

That ends my rant for the day. I highly doubt anyone read this far into, but if you do, you're amazing!

_____________________
** For an example of this see Glenn Healy's crackpot draft analysis during last night's game when he shows how the Canadiens' selected Brendan Gallagher right after we selected Sam Carrick and Daniel Brodin. But these boards and the media are littered with such "analysis", carefully selecting details to make the Leafs look bad.

 

[New Liskeard]

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger · 25m 25 minutes ago
Expect Leafs personnel changes to be made swiftly. No specifics, but dragging the process out isn't likely.

Excited who we see leave and who replaces. My guess is Nonis.

They should wait until the summer so they can take their time finding a new coach to replace Horachek (HOPEFULLY Babcock)

If Nonis is fired who is to replace him? If it is ether Dumbass or Hunter the Leafs are going to be in a serious bad way.

 

[613Leafer]

Ray Shero is out there maybe they hire him

I hope not. Look at the state Pittsburgh is in. Aside from their gift wrapped 1st/2nd overall drafted franchise players, Pittsburgh is an aging team, thin on depth, and with a pretty weak farm system.

Sure, he won a Cup. But when you bottom out and get Crosby/Malkin, you start off with a HUGE advantage over the rest of the league.

 

[New Liskeard]

Well this is interesting cause Dreger put out an article yesterday saying he(Nonis) looked to be safe.

Willing to bet Nonis stays around for another year. Nothing worse than having a GM with no NHL experience to speak of be responsible for trading the most valuable assets the Leafs have and drafting at such an important time of the franchise.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Whether Nonis stays or not. There are other seasoned GM's that can fill the operations role of executing trades and signings for the Leafs.

 

[New Liskeard]

Back to back GM's with plenty of experience nroughy us into, what could be argued, the darkest time in Maple Leafs history.

Brendan Shanahan knows everyone and anyone to know in hockey, Brad Prindholm built the CBA, Mark Hunter has loads of management experience, and Kyle Dubas has grown up in hockey management.


This whole "no experience" thing is ********. Plain and Simple.

Completely false. It takes time to build relationships. So Hunter's OHL GM experience is the same as NHL experience? So Dumbass was in management for years at the OHL level in the Soo, and that is the same as the NHL? The Leafs are a complete gong show, and I don't want to see an NHL GM with no experience take over and maximize values on Kesssel and Phaneuf and many others all while trying to create a winner. Sounds like an ideal and non impactful position for a new GM to cut his teeth on.

 

[New Liskeard]

Speaking of Fletcher, why is he still part of the team at age 79?

Strictly for the comedic value, and the ability to use his seniors discount at various venues to keep costs down.

 

[sda]

I'd be supportive of a management team that consisted of:

Brendan Shanahan - President
Cliff Fletcher - Senior Advisor to the President
Rob Blake - General Manager
Kyle Dubas - Assistant General Manager & Advanced Stats Analyst.
Sean Burke - Assistant General Manager & Goalie Coach.
Brandon Pridham - Assistant to the General Manager as Capologist.
Mark Hunter - Director, Amateur Scouting, and Player Development
Joe Neuwendyk - Director, Professional Scouting
Gary Roberts - Director of Player Development & Fitness Trainer

Coaching Staff - TBD as most coaches are still employed presently.

#DeBurkenize begins.

Why keep Fletcher? as gm for the last dismantling he was a complete disaster

 

[New Liskeard]

Is this enough of a resume to be named Leafs next GM? Worked under Maloney and Regier. Burke does have experience, more than Shanahan actually working in the NHL. I am intrigued.

Sean Burke
Assistant to the General Manager & Goaltending Coach

Hell of a much better resume than Hunter and Dumbass.

 

[Erdinger]

Strictly for the comedic value, and the ability to use his seniors discount at various venues to keep costs down.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Back to back GM's with plenty of experience nroughy us into, what could be argued, the darkest time in Maple Leafs history.

Brendan Shanahan knows everyone and anyone to know in hockey, Brad Prindholm built the CBA, Mark Hunter has loads of management experience, and Kyle Dubas has grown up in hockey management.


This whole "no experience" thing is ********. Plain and Simple.

Shanahan probably disagrees.



This is why he is interested in 2 experienced NHL Execs coming in. I agree with him.

 

[ULF_55]

If Nonis is fired who is to replace him? If it is ether Dumbass or Hunter the Leafs are going to be in a serious bad way.

Because right now they are in a good way?

What did Nonis win in Vancouver?

It isn't like Nonis has an impressive Resume.

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

Bruins might want to replace Julien since they missed the playoffs. Maybe the Leafs could pick him up? But then again he likes a physical style game and this team is soft as butter.

 

[Liminality]

If Nonis is fired who is to replace him? If it is ether Dumbass or Hunter the Leafs are going to be in a serious bad way.

Maybe interim GM Shanahan but run as a group with Dubas and Hunter till they find the right GM?

Don't like Dubas?