Making a mountain out of many molehills?

[zeke]

Well It is becoming obvious that him and Mathews do not like each other. He was sent to smooth over the relationship this past summer and it is worse now. It has become a team distraction.

well, I have to say that Babcock has been almost intentionally sticking it to Matthews.

and I get that he's probably doing it to try and make him the best player possible, but still, there's no question he's treated Matthews more harshly than most other young stars get treated.

 

[diceman934]

well, I have to say that Babcock has been almost intentionally sticking it to Matthews.

and I get that he's probably doing it to try and make him the best player possible, but still, there's no question he's treated Matthews more harshly than most other young stars get treated.

He did worse to Marner and Nylander but it seems like Mathews is not standing for it.

 

[diceman934]

So nothing.

Nothing. Lol!

Mathews being told that you better play hard or else I will not keep Marner on your line. Is nothing?

Or Mathews yelling at his team mates on the bench is nothing?

These are facts, not a made up items.

 

[GoonieFace]

well, I have to say that Babcock has been almost intentionally sticking it to Matthews.

and I get that he's probably doing it to try and make him the best player possible, but still, there's no question he's treated Matthews more harshly than most other young stars get treated.

Ideally this is how you want to treat your younger players, but these days everyone is ultra sensitive so he might of hurt Matthews feelings.

 

[meefer]

So still, at what point are the players responsible for their actions on the ice? Babcock may be in Matthew's head, Babcock may be etc...at what point are the players held accountable? Come on, this is a good team, a talented team, the best we've seen in years. Why can't we admit that their collective efforts are, as yet, inconsistent to their abilities. It's time for the players to stand up and be held accountable for their performance.
Matthews: love him, but he's been off for awhile.
Marner: hard to argue against.
Tavares: how many teams have a better option for 1C, but has he demanded more of his team?
Morgan R: love the player, but would it hurt him to throw a check?
one could go on...rally, play for each other, suck it up, gut check time...nobody in the organization is crapping on this team, they and we know that there is talent. It's time to step up and it's on the players to show some stones. If not, hell, move Matthews and Nylander for McDavid, or some such idea...these players are quality players, but if they're not going all in something is missing and it needs to be addressed.

To be clear, I don't expect perfection, but I do expect effort. Until the core determines a structure of accountability I'm suspect of this team's ability to move forward. I believe in this team's talent, but it needs internal direction, which comes from the players, NOT THE COACH! I'm still optimistic that this is a group that has that view of self. I think they'll determine who is who and who needs a kick in the ass. Then we'll start seeing what this team is all about.

 

[Cotton]

Nothing. Lol!

Mathews being told that you better play hard or else I will not keep Marner on your line. Is nothing?

Or Mathews yelling at his team mates on the bench is nothing?

These are facts, not a made up items.

They are conspiracies, so they might be real to you but that doesnt make them facts. For example, when did Matthews yell at teammates? any footage? an article about it maybe? I doubt that would slip by in Toronto when Malkin yelling at Kessel was such big news in a smaller hockey/media market.

Or do you mean when he told everyone to wake up, a leadership move, something Patrice Bergeron did the other day.

Alot of the posts in here hinting at some riff are exactly the problem with this fanbase. Its paranoid and based on nothing, Kypreos made some shit up based on reading Matthews body language during the playoffs, he surmised Babcock hated Marner before that for much the same reason - it's all BS, and fans picking up Kypreos' magnifying glass to try and read into everything is just fueling resentment towards one or the other over a riff there is no evidence even exists.

People need to chill out.

 

[Cotton]

Matty has gone from one of the answers to one of the question marks since his 'peg injury. I wish he was a bit older, be it Babcock or be it another coach, Matthews wont be allowed to be a distraction. Its about the name on the front not the name on the the back and it feels like Matty has yet to learn this.

Matty signs a big contract and dog's it like he has been for the last month,the booing/treatment of Jake, Murphy and Kessel will sound like a wind chime 50 miles away in comparison to what Matthews will get.

He hasnt been dogging it, he's in a goal scoring slump, it happens.

If anyone were to boo him I would hope surrounding fans rat-pack those pos until they fall silent. Some of us want to see a Cup win before we die, booing our franchise centre and creating that kind of reputation because a small group of fans cannot decipher between a streak of bad luck and a lack of effort and concern is moronic. Toronto will once again become a place nobody wants to play.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I have no doubt Babcock gets on players nerves, and some don't like him at all, but that could probably be said of any coach

 

[diceman934]

They are conspiracies, so they might be real to you but that doesnt make them facts. For example, when did Matthews yell at teammates? any footage? an article about it maybe? I doubt that would slip by in Toronto when Malkin yelling at Kessel was such big news in a smaller hockey/media market.

Or do you mean when he told everyone to wake up, a leadership move, something Patrice Bergeron did the other day.

Alot of the posts in here hinting at some riff are exactly the problem with this fanbase. Its paranoid and based on nothing, Kypreos made some **** up based on reading Matthews body language during the playoffs, he surmised Babcock hated Marner before that for much the same reason - it's all BS, and fans picking up Kypreos' magnifying glass to try and read into everything is just fueling resentment towards one or the other over a riff there is no evidence even exists.

People need to chill out.

They are facts. Dismiss them if you want but they both happened. As well as leaving the ice early on shifts when the puck heads south.

I love the posts that blame everything on the fan base. Any time there is controversy it is blamed on the fan base.

If anyone thinks that is was Babs idea to put Marthews and Marner together then I have some nice land I would like to sell these people.

Evidence that the riff exists is clear Babcock has his player meetings with every player and states when asked that him and Mathews are fine then jumps on a plane to go and smooth things over. Mathews did not want Hyman on his line and bingo Bango he was not.

People need to stop burying their heads in the sand and wake up. Mathews does not want Babs as his coach.

Mathews will look fantastic tonight as long as him and Mitch are playing together as that is what he has wanted but make no mistake he is not a fan of Babcock and has clearly demonstrated that .

One last thing Kipper got his information last year from someone and he passed it off as reading body language. Was he right. He sure was supported by evidence of a visit with the Mathews family by Babcock.

 

[diceman934]

I have no doubt Babcock gets on players nerves, and some don't like him at all, but that could probably be said of any coach

What happens when that player is considered your franchise center. Then what?

I do not think a visit to the Mathews home this summer is going to change anything this time. It seems to be getting worse as the sound bites from Babs was very telling.

 

[DankinIT]

Nothing. Lol!

Mathews being told that you better play hard or else I will not keep Marner on your line. Is nothing?

Or Mathews yelling at his team mates on the bench is nothing?

These are facts, not a made up items.

Marner is under the same microscope, it's not just Matthews on that line. Babcock is looking to get Matthews out of his slump, Marner has been our best player all season. Who better on the team to help him?

Have you seen this? I'd imagine this is much worst than Matthews telling his teammates to wake up.

 

[DankinIT]

They are facts. Dismiss them if you want but they both happened. As well as leaving the ice early on shifts when the puck heads south.

I love the posts that blame everything on the fan base. Any time there is controversy it is blamed on the fan base.

If anyone thinks that is was Babs idea to put Marthews and Marner together then I have some nice land I would like to sell these people.

Evidence that the riff exists is clear Babcock has his player meetings with every player and states when asked that him and Mathews are fine then jumps on a plane to go and smooth things over. Mathews did not want Hyman on his line and bingo Bango he was not.

People need to stop burying their heads in the sand and wake up. Mathews does not want Babs as his coach.

Mathews will look fantastic tonight as long as him and Mitch are playing together as that is what he has wanted but make no mistake he is not a fan of Babcock and has clearly demonstrated that .

One last thing Kipper got his information last year from someone and he passed it off as reading body language. Was he right. He sure was supported by evidence of a visit with the Mathews family by Babcock.

It's called a line change.

It's the fan base coming up with these controversial conspiracy theories. Could you imagine these theories in an everyday working office? "Well Boss, I want to work beside Mark otherwise I'm not performing" This is what you are at with your rambling, it's ridiculous. Matthews knew when Tavares signed that Marner would be on John's line.

The Hyman Matthews Nylander line was the leafs top line last year. You really think Matthews didn't want Hyman grinding for the puck?

There really is no concrete evidence to your statement "Matthews does not want Babs as his coach". Other than the "Summer Meeting", which I do not believe you were apart of and really have no idea how it went. Nor does Nick Kypreos (Pylon).

 

[diceman934]

It's called a line change.

It's the fan base coming up with these controversial conspiracy theories. Could you imagine these theories in an everyday working office? "Well Boss, I want to work beside Mark otherwise I'm not performing" This is what you are at with your rambling, it's ridiculous. Matthews knew when Tavares signed that Marner would be on John's line.

The Hyman Matthews Nylander line was the leafs top line last year. You really think Matthews didn't want Hyman grinding for the puck?

There really is no concrete evidence to your statement "Matthews does not want Babs as his coach". Other than the "Summer Meeting", which I do not believe you were apart of and really have no idea how it went. Nor does Nick Kypreos (Pylon).

Lol bury you head in the sand and when it comes out you will say “well I knew that all along”.

I more than think Mathews did not want Hyman in his line. It is common knowledge by the way.

Another thing that is common knowledge that Mathews wants to play with Marner and Marner feels the same way.

I think that Mathews with Marner line change came from above as I do not think that Babcock changed his tune about playing them together.

Do you think Mathews wants Babs as his coach?

 

[diceman934]

Marner is under the same microscope, it's not just Matthews on that line. Babcock is looking to get Matthews out of his slump, Marner has been our best player all season. Who better on the team to help him?

Have you seen this? I'd imagine this is much worst than Matthews telling his teammates to wake up.

Wrong Babs clearly said it was Mathews that needed to play harder away from the puck and said Marner has been facing the best players in the league etc.

Look there is a lot of evidence that Mathews is not happy playing for Babs. This is not s one time blow up thing that happens in many games. It is much worse then that.

I will stop replying as I am just repeating my self. I will just watch and see what happens.

 

[DankinIT]

I more than think Mathews did not want Hyman in his line. It is common knowledge by the way.

Another thing that is common knowledge that Mathews wants to play with Marner and Marner feels the same way.

Common knowledge. Wow.

Do you think Mathews wants Babs as his coach?

100% yes. Player and coach will not always see eye to eye but this doesn't take away from Matthews not wanting Babs as his coach.

 

[DankinIT]

Look there is a lot of evidence that Mathews is not happy playing for Babs. This is not s one time blow up thing that happens in many games. It is much worse then that.

I would love to see this evidence. Facts not fiction.

 

[ITM]

He did worse to Marner and Nylander but it seems like Mathews is not standing for it.

For argument's sake, if Babcock is treating the three harshly, unfairly, what have you...Is Marner worse for it?

 

[diceman934]

For argument's sake, if Babcock is treating the three harshly, unfairly, what have you...Is Marner worse for it?

No but Marner has the engine and
The passion to get himself out of the dog house. Nylander has lived there all 3 years thus far. Mathews has yet to see the same treatment of reduced to 4th line ice time.

 

[diceman934]

I would love to see this evidence. Facts not fiction.

Hard to see or hear evidence when both you eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears saying lala etc.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

They are conspiracies, so they might be real to you but that doesnt make them facts. For example, when did Matthews yell at teammates? any footage? an article about it maybe? I doubt that would slip by in Toronto when Malkin yelling at Kessel was such big news in a smaller hockey/media market.

Or do you mean when he told everyone to wake up, a leadership move, something Patrice Bergeron did the other day.

Alot of the posts in here hinting at some riff are exactly the problem with this fanbase. Its paranoid and based on nothing, Kypreos made some **** up based on reading Matthews body language during the playoffs, he surmised Babcock hated Marner before that for much the same reason - it's all BS, and fans picking up Kypreos' magnifying glass to try and read into everything is just fueling resentment towards one or the other over a riff there is no evidence even exists.

People need to chill out.

Matthews was shown on the broadcast and it looked like he was yelling. There was no audio. Millen even said matthews was screaming “lets go” with an extra word or two.

 

[PromisedLand]

Hey OP how many molehills are we talking about? If too many then putting them all together would reach the height of the mountain

 

[ITM]

No but Marner has the engine and
The passion to get himself out of the dog house. Nylander has lived there all 3 years thus far. Mathews has yet to see the same treatment of reduced to 4th line ice time.

I purposely left out the rest of the sentence, reading, "of reduced to 4th line ice time." to point out that Nylander has "lived" mostly on Matthews' line hasn't he? Can Nylander be present in both instances?

My sense is, Nylander has been "there" the last twenty games in lieu of an AHL conditioning stint. He missed two months of NHL hockey and the preseason before it. That time compounds in an unforeseen punishing fashion. Apparently, Nylander has lamented a level of play he's never experienced before. That's not a player complaining about his line assignments, that's a player acknowledging his situation for the self-created mess it is.

And I suspect something similar is happening with Matthews. We don't know to a certainty where he is physically and more importantly, mentally. Especially as he navigates repeat injury and thus repeat recovery, as a young leader watching Marner take over the point production leadership role and Tavares take over a large portion of the perceived number one centre leadership role.

Maybe, Babcock sees elements of each game that reflects line assignments. It's reasonable then to infer, Babcock sees a sort of uncertainty and absence of confidence to merit placing Matthews with Marner. And interestingly, Babcock in answer to the question, "Does having Tavares make this easier now" with respect to that assignment said, "No question about it.". And that's interesting given his qualifying message about Tavares' professionalism and how he prepares and how he's an example of said professionalism for the team. Babcock goes to note the relationship between preparation and confidence...

Now, given what's known about Matthews and Nylander and their confidence issues lately, is that just a coincidental statement or is that a coach using another player as an object lesson for similarly talented players on the team to reinforce Babcock's credo of not allowing your talent to exceed your work ethic?

 

[Bluelines]

He hasnt been dogging it, he's in a goal scoring slump, it happens.

If anyone were to boo him I would hope surrounding fans rat-pack those pos until they fall silent. Some of us want to see a Cup win before we die, booing our franchise centre and creating that kind of reputation because a small group of fans cannot decipher between a streak of bad luck and a lack of effort and concern is moronic. Toronto will once again become a place nobody wants to play.

He's been doing drive by's since he came back from injury, he's a power forward not playing a power forwards game.

 

[meefer]

Hey OP how many molehills are we talking about? If too many then putting them all together would reach the height of the mountain

Ya got me!