Make your all-prospect team

[McMatthews]

That's an endless supply of grit!

The problem with drafting like that, however, is that if you produce enough busts (i.e. Colborne and Kadri) you find yourselves very quickly in Calgary Flames territory--all those who aren't busts, and most of your 'diamond in the roughs,' by their very gritty nature, go on to be most valuable and most serviceable as third and fourth line assets (see: Langkow, Moss, and Glencross).

In the end, you do one of the three things; you either pay first-line money for the third line players, simply because your team developed them; or you become an assembly line factory, producing great checkers for other teams (something that the Columbus Blue Jackets have done a lot, see: Fritsche, Sestito, Jackman, and Mauldin); or you have practically no draft success at all, minus sure-fire top three picks (see: Burke's drafting record from 1999-2002).

With all of that being said, actually having a first round pick for the 2012 draft will surely shore up this prospect group. But having looked at Burke's drafting record (and the drafting record of Jay Feaster, for that matter), I think it's safe to say that we'll be seeing more of the same in Calgary and Toronto for at least a few more years.

Greg McKegg
Nazem Kadri
Matt Frattin
Jerry D'Amigo
Joe Colborne
Sondre Olden
Josh Leivo
Luca Caputi
Josh Nicholls
Jake Gardiner
Jesse Blacker
Stuart Percy
Juraj Mikus

The above players listed are all skilled hockey players.

That makes up at least half the prospects I listed.

This "Brian Burke only likes grit" business blinds people from actually recognizing the talent he's built in the Maple Leafs system. 9 or 10 of the prospects I just listed either have top 6 or top 4 (defencemen) potential.

You just posted a bunch of words in a few sentences without actually having seen (m)any of these prospects play. That's HFBoards for you... people can actually judge players and prospect pools based on organizational reputation instead of actually having seen them play.

Nice.

 

[giddy up*]

Kabanov-Strome-Niederreiter
Lee-Nelson-Petrov
Ullstrom-Cizikas-Rakhshani
DiBenedetto-Marcinko-Sundstrom

deHaan-Mayfield
Donovan-Russo
Wishart-Klementyev

Poulin
Koskinen
Nilsson

I love this team. Imagine it with JT, Grabner, Okposo, Hamonic and AMac.

It's a beautiful thing

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Beach-McNeil-Morin
K.Hayes-Kruger-Saad
Danault-Pirri-J.Hayes
Smith-Flick-Makarov

Johns-Olsen
Lalonde-Clendening
Holl-Connelly

Salak
Simpson

Not too much high-end talent, but a lot of good depth. I'd say the majority have a good shot at making the NHL in some capacity in the next few years.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Kabanov-Strome-Niederreiter
Lee-Nelson-Petrov
Ullstrom-Cizikas-Rakhshani
DiBenedetto-Marcinko-Sundstrom

deHaan-Mayfield
Donovan-Katic
Wishart-Pedan

Poulin
Koskinen
Nilsson

I love this team. Imagine it with JT, Grabner, Okposo, Hamonic and AMac.

My two changes are adding Katic and Pedan in lieu of Klementiev and Russo. I love it, I just wish they drafted another banger like Martin.

 

[IceDogsandLeafs]

McKegg-Kadri-Frattin
D'Amigo-Colborne-Biggs
Caputi-Olden-Brenner
Ross-Nicholls-Ryan

Gardiner-Aulie
Blacker- Mikus
Percy- Nilsson

Reimer- Rynnas

 

[Joey Moss]

Hamilton - Nugent-Hopkins - Pitlick
Hartikainen - Lander - Omark
Ewanyk - Martindale - Rieder
Czerwonka - Vande Velde - Pelss
Rajala - Abney

Klefbom - Petry
Marincin - Teubert
Musil - Davidson
Simpson - Blain

Perhonen
Bunz
Roy

 

[Gobo]

Hamilton - Nugent-Hopkins - Pitlick
Hartikainen - Lander - Omark
Ewanyk - Martindale - Rieder
Czerwonka - Vande Velde - Pelss
Rajala - Abney

Klefbom - Petry
Marincin - Teubert
Musil - Davidson
Simpson - Blain

Perhonen
Bunz
Roy

Maybe have Bunz starting ahead of Perhonen. Other than that, that line-up looks sweet!

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Nicklas Jensen - Cody Hodgson - Anton Rodin
Sergei Shirokov - Jordan Schroeder - Darren Archibauld
Billy Sweatt - Mario Bliznak - Steven Anthony
Alexandre Grenier - Joeseph LaBate - Pathrick Westerholm
Spare(s): Alex Friesen

Chris Tanev - Kevin Connauton
Yann Sauve - Sebastion Erixon
Patrick McNally - Adam Polasek
Spare(s): Henrik Tommerness/Frank Corrado

Eddie Lack
David Honzik

 

[Circulartheory]

Jason Zucker - Mikael Granlund - Erik Haula
Colton Gillies - Casey Wellman - Brett Bulmer
Mario Lucia - Zack Phillips - Johan Larsson
Mikko Lehtonen - Cody Almond - Carson McMillan

Jonas Brodin - Marco Scandella
Tyler Cuma - Justin Falk
Nate Prosser - Kyle Medvec

Matt Hackett
Darcy Kuemper

Disagree at the bolded



Jason Zucker - Mikael Granlund - Brett Bulmer
Johan Larsson - Charlie Coyle - Casey Wellman
Colton Gillies - Casey Wellman - Erik Haula (forced from LW to RW)
Mario Lucia - Cody Almond - Carson McMillian

Brodin - Scandella
Prosser - Falk
Genoway - Lorenz
(Left Cuma out because of constant injuries)

Matt Hackett
Darcy Kuemper

 

[AlexanderTheGood]

Greg McKegg
Nazem Kadri
Matt Frattin
Jerry D'Amigo
Joe Colborne
Sondre Olden
Josh Leivo
Luca Caputi
Josh Nicholls
Jake Gardiner
Jesse Blacker
Stuart Percy
Juraj Mikus

The above players listed are all skilled hockey players.

That makes up at least half the prospects I listed.

This "Brian Burke only likes grit" business blinds people from actually recognizing the talent he's built in the Maple Leafs system. 9 or 10 of the prospects I just listed either have top 6 or top 4 (defencemen) potential.

You just posted a bunch of words in a few sentences without actually having seen (m)any of these prospects play. That's HFBoards for you... people can actually judge players and prospect pools based on organizational reputation instead of actually having seen them play.

Nice.

First of all, thanks for the rudeness of your reply and silly your assumption that I've never seen TML prospects even play. If you look at my post history, you'll see that I've been more than fair and balanced when it comes to Toronto prospects. I swear to God, it's as if Maple Leaf fans think that people like me analyze their prospect depth because we like being yelled at by Leafs fans or talked to in a condescending manner. Did I not mention that Kadri is a boom-bust, highly skilled, forward? Maybe not in those exact words, but I should have. All I did was compare the Leafs current prospects to the Flames prospects from two seasons back. The Flames had Backlund, so you shouldn't assume that I think, "Burke likes only grit."

On to your "list" of highly "skilled" players: I've already dealt with Kadri, so let's move on; Frattin can score, but he's most effective in the corners, and his skating is not NHL-caliber yet; D'Amigo has only been a PPG player at the junior level, and doesn't project to be a scorer at the NHL level; Joe Colborne was also dealt with in my OP, but thanks for mentioning him again needlessly anyway; to be honest, I've never seen Sondre Olden play but his stats don't exactly scream out "offensive dynamo;" here's a description of Josh Leivo from the Leafs board on HF, of all places: "HP Rank 75: doesn’t put up numbers, but his style of play makes it quite possible for him to find a role on the bottom 6 of a team down the road in his career." Shall we continue? Luca Caputi's does not project as a top six player, but hey, ya nevah know...; Josh Nicholls had a great junior season, but that was on a weak junior team where he got shot up the depth charts sort of artificially; I won't even deal with the offensive defensemen you've listed because they're really not even relevant to this discussion.

If you honestly think that Sondre Olden, Josh Leivo, Luca Caputi and
Josh Nicholls are all future top six players for the Leafs, I want some of what your smoking.

 

[BBSeabs27]

Morin-McNeill-Saad
Beach-Kruger-Smith
Danault-K.Hayes-J.Hayes
Rensfeldt-Pirri-Makarov

Olsen-Johns
Clendening-Holl
LaLonde-Lavin

Salak
Simpson

 

[Latex*]

Disagree at the bolded



Jason Zucker - Mikael Granlund - Brett Bulmer
Johan Larsson - Charlie Coyle - Casey Wellman
Colton Gillies - Casey Wellman - Erik Haula (forced from LW to RW)
Mario Lucia - Cody Almond - Carson McMillian

Brodin - Scandella
Prosser - Falk
Genoway - Lorenz
(Left Cuma out because of constant injuries)

Matt Hackett
Darcy Kuemper

Wow! I can't believe how good your prospect pool is now, when i think how awful it was prior to the 2010 draft.

Very impressive from Fletcher and Co.

from a Rangers fan.

 

[Theon]

Chris Kreider - JT Miller - Christian Thomas
Carl Hagelin - Oscar Lindberg - Mats Zuccarello
Jesper Fasth - Steve Fogarty - Shane McColgan
Ryan Bourque - Michael St. Croix - Dale Weise

Ryan McDonagh - Tim Erixon
Dylan McIlrath - Pavel Valentenko
Jyri Niemi - Tomas Kundratek/ Mikhail Pashnin

Scott Stajcer
Jason Missiaen
Chad Johnson

 

[McMatthews]

First of all, thanks for the rudeness of your reply and silly your assumption that I've never seen TML prospects even play. If you look at my post history, you'll see that I've been more than fair and balanced when it comes to Toronto prospects. I swear to God, it's as if Maple Leaf fans think that people like me analyze their prospect depth because we like being yelled at by Leafs fans or talked to in a condescending manner. Did I not mention that Kadri is a boom-bust, highly skilled, forward? Maybe not in those exact words, but I should have. All I did was compare the Leafs current prospects to the Flames prospects from two seasons back. The Flames had Backlund, so you shouldn't assume that I think, "Burke likes only grit."

Problem here is that Toronto's current group of prospects is like nothing Calgary has seen in years. In 2009 (as you say, "a couple years ago"), Calgary was ranked as the 25th best organization in terms of prospects. This season, HF.com ranked Toronto in the top 10. The highest Calgary has been in the last 5 years was 14th.
I take HF.com's list with a grain of salt, but it is somewhat indicative of where the organizations stand in terms of potential and depth. Calgary's #2 ranked prospect in January of 2010 was Keith Aulie. Aulie was ranked #2 overall in the Flames organization despite having little professional experience at the time.

But in the Toronto organization and after a solid NHL season, he's still likely to be ranked between 6 and 8. He's a better prospect today than he was when the Phaneuf trade was made, yet he's not rated as high as he was in Calgary's organization. Which to me means that Toronto's top end depth is a lot stronger than Calgary's was. Not to mention the number of legitimate NHL prospects the Maple Leafs have. The top end quality may not be there, but the depth (1 through 25) is rivaled by maybe just over a handful of NHL teams, believe it or not.

You seem quite good with words and the english language, but that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

Calgary's top 10 prospects in June of 2009 were:

Mikael Backlund
Greg Nemisz
Keith Aulie
Mitch Wahl
Leland Irving
John Negrin
Matt Keetley
Juuso Puustinen
TJ Brodie
Aaron Marvin

Source: Archive.org - Calgary Flames (June '09)

Are you going to argue the above list is reminiscent of Toronto's current top 10?

Nazem Kadri
James Reimer
Joe Colborne
Jake Gardiner
Keith Aulie
Matt Frattin
Tyler Biggs
Stuary Percy
Jesse Blacker
Greg McKegg

Others: Jussi Rynnas, Brad Ross, Jerry D'Amigo, etc.

I would love to see your explanation as to how Calgary's prospect pool from a couple years ago is anything close to the current state of Toronto's pool. Please elaborate without exaggeration or posting false information or hearsay.

On to your "list" of highly "skilled" players: I've already dealt with Kadri, so let's move on; 1. Frattin can score, but he's most effective in the corners, and his skating is not NHL-caliber yet; 2. D'Amigo has only been a PPG player at the junior level, and doesn't project to be a scorer at the NHL level; Joe Colborne was also dealt with in my OP, but thanks for mentioning him again needlessly anyway; 3. to be honest, I've never seen Sondre Olden play but his stats don't exactly scream out "offensive dynamo;" 4. here's a description of Josh Leivo from the Leafs board on HF, of all places: "HP Rank 75: doesn’t put up numbers, but his style of play makes it quite possible for him to find a role on the bottom 6 of a team down the road in his career." Shall we continue? 5. Luca Caputi's does not project as a top six player, but hey, ya nevah know...; 6. Josh Nicholls had a great junior season, but that was on a weak junior team where he got shot up the depth charts sort of artificially; I won't even deal with the offensive defensemen you've listed because they're really not even relevant to this discussion.

If you honestly think that Sondre Olden, Josh Leivo, Luca Caputi and
Josh Nicholls are all future top six players for the Leafs, I want some of what your smoking.

1. Matt Frattin's skating is NHL calibre. You're wrong.

2. D'Amigo dominated for Kitchener after being sent to the OHL. He spent 43 games in the AHL as a 19 year old and won the ECAC rookie of the year award a year prior. He may not have top line upside but he surely has 2nd/3rd line offensive potential.

3. "to be honest, I've never seen Sondre Olden play but his stats..."

4. And here's a quote from Dave Morrison, head scout for the Toronto Maple Leafs and only 1 of 30 NHL head scouts in the world, "he has as much upside as anyone in this draft". Ask any Sudbury Wolves or Ottawa 67's fans how dominant Leivo was in the post season. Both offensively, defensively and in the neutral zone.

5. Caputi had a terrible season, hampered by injuries. At this point in time, he doesn't project to be much more than a 3rd line forward due to his skating concerns and injuries. But he belongs on the list of offensively skilled prospects, as he's quite talented on the puck. Far from strictly a gritty type player, that was why he was listed. Care to disagree with someones assessment who's actually seen Luca play over the last two seasons? Please go ahead.

6. "Josh Nicholls had a great junior season, but that was on a weak junior team".

You serious? Saskatoon was the #2 ranked team in the CHL and #1 in the WHL by 11 regular season points.

Not to mention that Nicholls went from 48 points in 71 games to 87 points in 71 games. He pretty much doubled his point totals on a stacked WHL roster and improved in most aspects of his game. A late pick and a very long shot, but the argument was whether or not they had upside... not the odds of them reaching said potential, but did they have top 6 upside. Nicholls is a long shot, but he has all the tools to be an effective 2nd/3rd line forward given he continues on this developmental curve.

Please, proper grammar and word selection doesn't mean you're educated on the topic at hand. If you're going to analyze Toronto's prospects, please watch them play. I (as well as most Leafs fans on here) have read everything there is to read, heard all the interviews, seen all the clips and actually watched our kids play. For you to come in here and tell me the current list of prospects in the Toronto organization is similar to the Calgary Flames organizational depth of 2008 or 2009 is absurd.


Get yo **** straight.

 

[StIllmatic]

Jensen - Hodgson - Rodin
Shirokov - Schroeder - Archibald
Sweatt - Labate - Westerholm
Grenier - Friesen - Anthony

Extra: Blomstrand

Tanev - Sauve
Tommerness - Erixon
Connauton - Polasek

Extras: Andersson, McNally, Corrado

Lack
Honzik

 

[AlexanderTheGood]

Problem here is that Toronto's current group of prospects is like nothing Calgary has seen in years. In 2009 (as you say, "a couple years ago"), Calgary was ranked as the 25th best organization in terms of prospects. This season, HF.com ranked Toronto in the top 10. The highest Calgary has been in the last 5 years was 14th.

I take HF.com's list with a grain of salt, but it is somewhat indicative of where the organizations stand in terms of potential and depth. Calgary's #2 ranked prospect in January of 2010 was Keith Aulie. Aulie was ranked #2 overall in the Flames organization despite having little professional experience at the time.

But in the Toronto organization and after a solid NHL season, he's still likely to be ranked between 6 and 8. He's a better prospect today than he was when the Phaneuf trade was made, yet he's not rated as high as he was in Calgary's organization. Which to me means that Toronto's top end depth is a lot stronger than Calgary's was. Not to mention the number of legitimate NHL prospects the Maple Leafs have. The top end quality may not be there, but the depth (1 through 25) is rivaled by maybe just over a handful of NHL teams, believe it or not.


You seem quite good with words and the english language, but that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.


Calgary's top 10 prospects in June of 2009 were:

Mikael Backlund
Greg Nemisz
Keith Aulie
Mitch Wahl
Leland Irving
John Negrin
Matt Keetley
Juuso Puustinen
TJ Brodie
Aaron Marvin

Source: Archive.org - Calgary Flames (June '09)

Are you going to argue the above list is reminiscent of Toronto's current top 10?

Nazem Kadri
James Reimer
Joe Colborne
Jake Gardiner
Keith Aulie
Matt Frattin
Tyler Biggs
Stuary Percy
Jesse Blacker
Greg McKegg

Others: Jussi Rynnas, Brad Ross, Jerry D'Amigo, etc.


I would love to see your explanation as to how Calgary's prospect pool from a couple years ago is anything close to the current state of Toronto's pool. Please elaborate without exaggeration or posting false information or hearsay.


1. Matt Frattin's skating is NHL calibre. You're wrong.

2. D'Amigo dominated for Kitchener after being sent to the OHL. He spent 43 games in the AHL as a 19 year old and won the ECAC rookie of the year award a year prior. He may not have top line upside but he surely has 2nd/3rd line offensive potential.

3. "to be honest, I've never seen Sondre Olden play but his stats..."

4. And here's a quote from Dave Morrison, head scout for the Toronto Maple Leafs and only 1 of 30 NHL head scouts in the world, "he has as much upside as anyone in this draft". Ask any Sudbury Wolves or Ottawa 67's fans how dominant Leivo was in the post season. Both offensively, defensively and in the neutral zone.

5. Caputi had a terrible season, hampered by injuries. At this point in time, he doesn't project to be much more than a 3rd line forward due to his skating concerns and injuries. But he belongs on the list of offensively skilled prospects, as he's quite talented on the puck. Far from strictly a gritty type player, that was why he was listed. Care to disagree with someones assessment who's actually seen Luca play over the last two seasons? Please go ahead.

6. "Josh Nicholls had a great junior season, but that was on a weak junior team". You serious? Saskatoon was the #2 ranked team in the CHL and #1 in the WHL by 11 regular season points.

Not to mention that Nicholls went from 48 points in 71 games to 87 points in 71 games. He pretty much doubled his point totals on a stacked WHL roster and improved in most aspects of his game. A late pick and a very long shot, but the argument was whether or not they had upside... not the odds of them reaching said potential, but did they have top 6 upside. Nicholls is a long shot, but he has all the tools to be an effective 2nd/3rd line forward given he continues on this developmental curve.

Please, proper grammar and word selection doesn't mean you're educated on the topic at hand. If you're going to analyze Toronto's prospects, please watch them play. I (as well as most Leafs fans on here) have read everything there is to read, heard all the interviews, seen all the clips and actually watched our kids play. For you to come in here and tell me the current list of prospects in the Toronto organization is similar to the Calgary Flames organizational depth of 2008 or 2009 is absurd.


Get yo **** straight.

Well, the jury is always out for a few years on these things. I never said that Toronto's prospects are a dead-end, nor did I say that about Calgary. I like how you used the archived Flames prospect list before it had been updated after the draft. A comparison between Flames 2009 (minus 2009 draft picks) and Toronto 2011 (plus 2011 draft picks) is erroneous. And besides that, I'm sure Flames fans, who are excited about the development of Ryan Howse, Mitch Wahl, Gaelan Patterson, and Lance Bouma, would find your whining over my comparison to be completely outrageous.

And just to let you know, it would be mathematically impossible for all your prospects to become stars on the Maple Leafs; you only have so many roster spots, and inevitably some prospects are busts. Deal with it. All I said is that if the top prospects like Kadri and Colborne bust hard, the team has no other high-end skilled players. You just listed off a group of players that certainly have skill, but are prototypical Burke players. The "Burke only likes grit" business was started by Brian Burke. The mere vitriol and hostility that comes with this discussion suggests that you still feel unsure of your team's prospect depth.

 

[Backlund]

Sven Bartschi - Mitch Wahl - Greg Nemisz
Ryan Howse - Max Reinhart - Logan MacMillan
Lance Bouma - Bryan Cameron - Roman Horak
Hugo Carpentier - Gaelan Patterson - John Armstrong

TJ Brodie - John Negrin
Brendan Mikkelson - Keith Seabrook
Tyler Wotherspoon - Matt Pelech

Leland Irving
Joni Ortio

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Disagree at the bolded



Jason Zucker - Mikael Granlund - Brett Bulmer
Johan Larsson - Charlie Coyle - Casey Wellman
Colton Gillies - Casey Wellman - Erik Haula (forced from LW to RW)
Mario Lucia - Cody Almond - Carson McMillian

Brodin - Scandella
Prosser - Falk
Genoway - Lorenz
(Left Cuma out because of constant injuries)

Matt Hackett
Darcy Kuemper

You have Wellman twice, and no Phillips. Insert Phillips as #3 C and it looks good.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Sven Bartschi - Mitch Wahl - Greg Nemisz
Ryan Howse - Max Reinhart - Logan MacMillan
Lance Bouma - Bryan Cameron - Roman Horak
Hugo Carpentier - Gaelan Patterson - John Armstrong

TJ Brodie - John Negrin
Brendan Mikkelson - Keith Seabrook
Tyler Wotherspoon - Matt Pelech

Leland Irving
Joni Ortio

That's not even close....

We just released Carpentier, Armstrong and Pelech.

Second of all MacMillan, Cameron and Seabrook belong no where near this list.

There are much, much better options...
.

 

[The Podium]

And just to let you know, it would be mathematically impossible for all your prospects to become stars on the Maple Leafs; you only have so many roster spots, and inevitably some prospects are busts. Deal with it. All I said is that if the top prospects like Kadri and Colborne bust hard, the team has no other high-end skilled players. You just listed off a group of players that certainly have skill, but are prototypical Burke players. The "Burke only likes grit" business was started by Brian Burke. The mere vitriol and hostility that comes with this discussion suggests that you still feel unsure of your team's prospect depth.

The generalization about Burke's truculence dominated philosophy of team building is getting out of hand. Biggs, a prototypical "Burke-type" player, was not even on Burke's radar at the time of the draft. He was actually pressured by Morrison to trade up and pick him. Burke went into the draft with his mind set on one player, that player being Stuart Percy, the exact opposite of a "Burke-type" player.

 

[madmike77]

That's not even close....

We just released Carpentier, Armstrong and Pelech.

Second of all MacMillan, Cameron and Seabrook belong no where near this list.

There are much, much better options...
.

Better maybe, but not "much much better". It's a decent list, if you discount the guys who are no longer around.

Chris Breen should be there on D, Ramage for sure, maybe Leach as well.

Likely Byron as a forward if he doesn't make the NHL roster. I don't know who else I'd throw in there at forward. I think it's too early for Granlund. Maybe Arnold, Ferland or Holland - although it's early days for them too. I'm really not sure on the deeper forwards.

 

[WILDTATE10]

Jason Zucker - Mikael Granlund - Brett Bulmer
Johan Larsson - Charlie Coyle - Casey Wellman
Colton Gillies - Zach Phillips - Erik Haula
Mario Lucia - Cody Almond - Carson McMillian

Brodin - Scandella
Cuma - Falk
Genoway - Prosser


Matt Hackett
Darcy Kuemper

 

[AlexanderTheGood]

The generalization about Burke's truculence dominated philosophy of team building is getting out of hand. Biggs, a prototypical "Burke-type" player, was not even on Burke's radar at the time of the draft. He was actually pressured by Morrison to trade up and pick him. Burke went into the draft with his mind set on one player, that player being Stuart Percy, the exact opposite of a "Burke-type" player.

To me, Stuart Percy is not the opposite of a "Burke-type" player. But I suppose it's all in the eye of the beholder. Such a player would have to be undersized. highly skilled, and defensively challenged, not average sized and well-rounded.

 

[Felkov]

Avtsin-Leblanc-Kristo
Gallagher-Engqvist-Palushaj
Archambault-Bournival-Berger
Schultz-Nattinen-Dumont

Beaulieu-Yemelin
Tinordi-Nash
Didier-Diaz

Mayer
Delmas

 

[Okposofan21]

New York Islanders

Kirill Kabanov Ryan Strome Nino Niederreiter

Calvin de Haan Matt Donovan

Anders Nilsson