Makar vs Josi

[MrOT]

The only way Heiskanen is better than Makar is being more Scandinavian.

More Scandinavian? There must be a misunderstanding here. Finns are not Scandinavian. They are geographically a part of the Nordic countries but have a completely different language and ethnicity. Their language is a part of the Finno-Ugric language stem and is about as close to the Scandinavian languages as Japanese basically. They also look quite different than Scandinavian people. I'd say Makar is probably, from having Western European origin, ethnologically more Scandinavian than Heiskanen.

 

[NyQuil]

The Scandinavia vs. Nordic and complimentary vs. complementary are the most common instructional posts on HF.

 

[triggrman]

Im surprised the vote is 50/50

Josi in my book is a top-5 defenseman

i mean, he did just win a Norris

I mean, that's not a knock on Josi, it shows how good Makar is. I say this as a Josi and Nashville fan.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Im surprised the vote is 50/50

Josi in my book is a top-5 defenseman

i mean, he did just win a Norris

Makar is arguably a top 2 defenseman in the NHL and would pretty much unanimously be in everybody’s top 5.

 

[eviohh26]

Josi. As good as Makar is. He has flaws in his own end. Its night and day difference in their own end. Josi is vet and a damn good one. Give the kids time.

 

[eviohh26]

Makar is arguably a top 2 defenseman in the NHL and would pretty much unanimously be in everybody’s top 5.

There is honestly no way Makar is top 2 . Even Doughty is still better. Top 5? maybe.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

There is honestly no way Makar is top 2 . Even Doughty is still better. Top 5? maybe.

Interesting take for sure. Curious if anyone else besides Drew Doughty himself thinks that.

 

[eviohh26]

Interesting take for sure. Curious if anyone else besides Drew Doughty himself thinks that.

I mean there is more to hockey than the stat sheet. Drew Doughty is superior at defense without a question. He has 27 points on a bottom team. He has a Norris and 2 Stanley Cups While playing close to 30 minutes a night. I suggest you take the glass's off if you think that Makar has surpassed Doughty.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I mean there is more to hockey than the stat sheet. Drew Doughty is superior at defense without a question. He has 27 points on a bottom team. He has a Norris and multiple Stanley Cups. I suggest you take the glass's off if you think that Makar has surpassed Doughty.

You think the stat sheet is what everyone is obsessed over Makar for? He’s tremendous defensively.

 

[eviohh26]

You think the stat sheet is what everyone is obsessed over Makar for? He’s tremendous defensively.

He also gets caught watching the play in his own zone . When he plays 41 minutes in the playoffs...... lol .

 

[Cousin Eddie]

He also gets caught watching the play in his own zone . When he plays 41 minutes in the playoffs...... lol .

Oh you want to point out individual moments to try to show somebody as bad defensively?



Send em to the AHL I guess.

Fact is, they’re both great defensively.

 

[eviohh26]

Oh you want to point out individual moments to try to show somebody as bad defensively?



Send em to the AHL I guess.

Fact is, they’re both great defensively.

Fact is one is much better.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I don't have much doubt Makar will be top 5 D one day, but he's not there yet. Avs don't have to become Leafs of the west.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Fact is one is much better.

That’s not a fact. That’s your opinion. I’d love some actual facts on how Drew Doughty is better than Cale Makar right now.

Doughty		Makar
D	Position	D
34	GP	23
658:19	TOI	402:43
19:21	TOI/GP	17:30
0	Goals/60	0.3
0.73	Total Assists/60	1.34
0.36	First Assists/60	0.45
0.36	Second Assists/60	0.89
0.73	Total Points/60	1.64
34.78	IPP	37.93
2.37	Shots/60	4.02
0.00	SH%	7.41
0.1	ixG/60	0.25
6.29	iCF/60	11.17
3.92	iFF/60	6.85
1.55	iSCF/60	2.98
0.18	iHDCF/60	0.74
0.09	Rush Attempts/60	0
0.46	Rebounds Created/60	0.74
1.28	PIM/60	0.6
0.64	Total Penalties/60	0.3
0.64	Minor/60	0.3
0	Major/60	0
0	Misconduct/60	0
0.27	Penalties Drawn/60	0.6
2.1	Giveaways/60	0.74
0.18	Takeaways/60	2.38
4.1	Hits/60	3.58
4.19	Hits Taken/60	2.23
2.83	Shots Blocked/60	2.23
0	Faceoffs Won/60	0
0	Faceoffs Lost/60	0
-	Faceoffs %	-

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Their 5v5 individual stats are pretty absurd. Makar is producing more than twice as much. Doughty gives the puck away three times more than Makar despite Makar having the puck on his stick more which is legit insanity.

Their underlying metrics are even more absurd.

Doughty is still a great defenseman but Makar has leapfrogged him and pretty well every defenseman in the league besides 1-3 others.

 

[Ararana]

I don't have much doubt Makar will be top 5 D one day, but he's not there yet. Avs don't have to become Leafs of the west.

MacKinnon
Makar

Rantanen
Girard

Landeskog
Toews

Kadri
Byram

The Avs are a very balanced team. It's aways weird to me when Toronto fans try to compare the Leafs to the Avs.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't have much doubt Makar will be top 5 D one day, but he's not there yet. Avs don't have to become Leafs of the west.

Out of curiosity what else would he have to do to become a top 5D? That recently posted ESPN players/coaches/executives poll has him ranked as the 2nd best D in the year and that was done at the beginning of the season before anyone ever saw how much better he is this year.

He’s won over the players and staff he plays against night in and night out. What does he have to do to convince a fan on an internet message board?

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

MacKinnon
Makar

Rantanen
Girard

Landeskog
Toews

Kadri
Byram

The Avs are a very balanced team. It's aways weird to me when Toronto fans try to compare the Leafs to the Avs.

It's a well balanced team. I would say if the Avs don't win the cup and they're healthy, it is because they are lacking defensive defensemen.

 

[eviohh26]

That’s not a fact. That’s your opinion. I’d love some actual facts on how Drew Doughty is better than Cale Makar right now.

Doughty		Makar
D	Position	D
34	GP	23
658:19	TOI	402:43
19:21	TOI/GP	17:30
0	Goals/60	0.3
0.73	Total Assists/60	1.34
0.36	First Assists/60	0.45
0.36	Second Assists/60	0.89
0.73	Total Points/60	1.64
34.78	IPP	37.93
2.37	Shots/60	4.02
0.00	SH%	7.41
0.1	ixG/60	0.25
6.29	iCF/60	11.17
3.92	iFF/60	6.85
1.55	iSCF/60	2.98
0.18	iHDCF/60	0.74
0.09	Rush Attempts/60	0
0.46	Rebounds Created/60	0.74
1.28	PIM/60	0.6
0.64	Total Penalties/60	0.3
0.64	Minor/60	0.3
0	Major/60	0
0	Misconduct/60	0
0.27	Penalties Drawn/60	0.6
2.1	Giveaways/60	0.74
0.18	Takeaways/60	2.38
4.1	Hits/60	3.58
4.19	Hits Taken/60	2.23
2.83	Shots Blocked/60	2.23
0	Faceoffs Won/60	0
0	Faceoffs Lost/60	0
-	Faceoffs %	-

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Their 5v5 individual stats are pretty absurd. Makar is producing more than twice as much. Doughty gives the puck away three times more than Makar despite Makar having the puck on his stick more which is legit insanity.

Their underlying metrics are even more absurd.

Doughty is still a great defenseman but Makar has leapfrogged him and pretty well every defenseman in the league besides 1-3 others.

Leap frogged what? Doughty played 41 minutes the night he raised lord stanley over his head. I like that stat line.

 

[Agent Zub]

Well I know which team I would rather be playing for.

Isn’t Girard supposed to be better than Makar right now?

You guys can’t get your stories straight.

Byram is supposed to be even better than both.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Leap frogged what? Doughty played 41 minutes the night he raised lord stanley over his head. I like that stat line.

7-9 years ago? -17 is another cool stat line.

 

[Taishici]

Their 5v5 individual stats are pretty absurd. Makar is producing more than twice as much. Doughty gives the puck away three times more than Makar despite Makar having the puck on his stick more which is legit insanity.

Their underlying metrics are even more absurd.

Doughty is still a great defenseman but Makar has leapfrogged him and pretty well every defenseman in the league besides 1-3 others.[/QUOTE]


This is a really bad analysis. Analytics without context is not a good way to analyze players. The take away stat for example is a terrible stat, maybe even the worst of all stats.

Makar, who is going to be a perennial Norris contender in the future, but he has not been better than Doughty this year.

I could give a long explanation as to why, but it should be pretty easy to see, if you are objectionable.
Makar actually has weaknesses that he needs to improve on, especially come playoff time. But he definitely has a bright future ahead. Colorado is set up to be an elite team for years to come.

 

[Hockey Fanatik]

Makar is arguably a top 2 defenseman in the NHL and would pretty much unanimously be in everybody’s top 5.

Maybe.

i personally am never crowning someone a top-5 anything before theyve played two full seasons

Makar hasnt even played 82 regular season games yet...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Leap frogged what? Doughty played 41 minutes the night he raised lord stanley over his head. I like that stat line.

Uhh what? So is Jonathan Quick better than Conor Hellebuyck because of his playoff experience nearly a decade ago too? Dave Bolland probably trumps Nico Hischier too.

Their 5v5 individual stats are pretty absurd. Makar is producing more than twice as much. Doughty gives the puck away three times more than Makar despite Makar having the puck on his stick more which is legit insanity.

Their underlying metrics are even more absurd.

Doughty is still a great defenseman but Makar has leapfrogged him and pretty well every defenseman in the league besides 1-3 others.

This is a really bad analysis. Analytics without context is not a good way to analyze players. The take away stat for example is a terrible stat, maybe even the worst of all stats.

Makar, who is going to be a perennial Norris contender in the future, but he has not been better than Doughty this year.

I could give a long explanation as to why, but it should be pretty easy to see, if you are objectionable.
Makar actually has weaknesses that he needs to improve on, especially come playoff time. But he definitely has a bright future ahead. Colorado is set up to be an elite team for years to come.[/QUOTE]
I gave the context. The context is their individual 5v5 rates per 60 this season. Please tell me what context is missing?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Their 5v5 individual stats are pretty absurd. Makar is producing more than twice as much. Doughty gives the puck away three times more than Makar despite Makar having the puck on his stick more which is legit insanity.

Their underlying metrics are even more absurd.

Doughty is still a great defenseman but Makar has leapfrogged him and pretty well every defenseman in the league besides 1-3 others.

This is a really bad analysis. Analytics without context is not a good way to analyze players. The take away stat for example is a terrible stat, maybe even the worst of all stats.

Makar, who is going to be a perennial Norris contender in the future, but he has not been better than Doughty this year.

I could give a long explanation as to why, but it should be pretty easy to see, if you are objectionable.
Makar actually has weaknesses that he needs to improve on, especially come playoff time. But he definitely has a bright future ahead. Colorado is set up to be an elite team for years to come.[/QUOTE]
I would like to see it. From a basic and advanced stat basis Makar is better than Doughty. Makar is good defensively regardless if the narrative is that he isn't. His biggest weakness is defending around the net for sure but overall he's still very good defensively.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Makar is really solid defensively. Either posters don't watch him or assume points equals bad defense. He could take much more risks with his skill set but focuses on defense first.