Confirmed with Link: MacTavish media availability today at 11am

[missinthejets]

No, absolutely NO. This assume that every player is exactly the same and can achieve exactly the same thing, the only difference is development, which I doubt even you believe.

Devan Dubnyk isn't a 23 to 25 year old the team is cutting bait on, he's was with the organization for a decade, 10 years of development, the last 3 in the NHL. If he was going to be a full time NHL starter, he would have shown the consistency to do that, he has not and did not, that why he's not an Oilers any more.

Look at Andres Lindback, develop in a place where they develop goalies "right", Nashville, does not look to have anything close to the consistency to be an NHL starter. Looks like he has the tools, but not the game, why? Because he's been poorly develop or as a player he simple can't achieve this? Probably the latter.

This the problem, everyone assumes the goalies are just plug and play, they aren't they tough to figure out and not all of them will be great if you just develop them properly. Like forwards and defensemen, some goalies don't have what it takes.

No you are missing the point, I'm not making any concrete statements, I am simply suggesting that it might have been possible with better development for Dubnyk to turn out better than he did. You have to admit that Dubnyks development path was pretty ****ed up. It is impressive that he survived it and even got a chance to be a starter for a while. I'm simply posing a what if situation not making any definitive claims one way or the other. You're the one doing that by saying he always sucked. There's a grey area in the world you know.

 

[SoftDumps]

That means alot coming from you SoftDumps

Are you being sarcastic? I probably don't have the best rep around here due to being very outspoken/opinionated and sometimes I get sucked into pretty bad arguments. Anyways thanks I guess?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

No you are missing the point, I'm not making any concrete statements, I am simply suggesting that it might have been possible with better development for Dubnyk to turn out better than he did. You have to admit that Dubnyks development path was pretty ****ed up. It is impressive that he survived it and even got a chance to be a starter for a while. I'm simply posing a what if situation not making any definitive claims one way or the other. You're the one doing that by saying he always sucked. There's a grey area in the world you know.

Yes, but I'm saying no because it wasn't in the player. It's like suggesting Robbie Schremp would have been a top-6 forward with better development. Is that true? Very likely not, because the player doesn't look like he was good enough, but I guess it might be true.

Some guys aren't good enough, all the development in the world can't fix that.

 

[missinthejets]

I was never suggesting he'd be a great goaltender either, but the guy did play some games where he looked quite good so it's not like he was a completely untalented player . He's a guy with some talent but seemed to lack some refinement more than anything.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Are you being sarcastic? I probably don't have the best rep around here due to being very outspoken/opinionated and sometimes I get sucked into pretty bad arguments. Anyways thanks I guess?

No, i thought it was hilarious that a user named SoftDumps liked my Toilet Paper analogy. Maybe i have a bad sense of humor i dunno.

 

[OF17]

Are you being sarcastic? I probably don't have the best rep around here due to being very outspoken/opinionated and sometimes I get sucked into pretty bad arguments. Anyways thanks I guess?

I think it's more of a reference to your username than anything else. But who knows?

On the one hand, I agree that it's important to develop goaltenders. On the other hand, it's also relatively easy to acquire them. Of course a certain amount of luck plays into it, but take San Jose with Antti Niemi as an example. They signed him as a free agent. Or take Ottawa, who acquired Craig Anderson in exchange for the Dubnyk-esque Brian Elliott. Tampa acquired Ben Bishop for Conacher. Toronto got Jonathan Bernier for two prospects. Heck, Edmonton might be in the same "acquired a legit starter cheaply" boat with Scrivens and/or Fasth. It's always a good thing to develop good players at any position, but goaltending is one of those areas where quality can be found relatively cheap on the trade market and thus is less of a development priority in my mind.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I think it's more of a reference to your username than anything else. But who knows?

On the one hand, I agree that it's important to develop goaltenders. On the other hand, it's also relatively easy to acquire them. Of course a certain amount of luck plays into it, but take San Jose with Antti Niemi as an example. They signed him as a free agent. Or take Ottawa, who acquired Craig Anderson in exchange for the Dubnyk-esque Brian Elliott. Tampa acquired Ben Bishop for Conacher. Toronto got Jonathan Bernier for two prospects. Heck, Edmonton might be in the same "acquired a legit starter cheaply" boat with Scrivens and/or Fasth. It's always a good thing to develop good players at any position, but goaltending is one of those areas where quality can be found relatively cheap on the trade market and thus is less of a development priority in my mind.

It would be my preference that i was the GM trading Schneider, Bernier or Bishop for assets because i have too many goalies. Rather than spending assets to get unproven goaltenders to plug a hole i can't fill from within my own organization.

I also don't want to be like the Oilers current position where I put my eggs in the Dubnyk basket. Then the Bunz basket. Now the Broissoit basket. Then if it doesn't work out i'm hoping to get someone via trade or free agency.

 

[Slats432]

I think it's more of a reference to your username than anything else. But who knows?

On the one hand, I agree that it's important to develop goaltenders. On the other hand, it's also relatively easy to acquire them. Of course a certain amount of luck plays into it, but take San Jose with Antti Niemi as an example. They signed him as a free agent. Or take Ottawa, who acquired Craig Anderson in exchange for the Dubnyk-esque Brian Elliott. Tampa acquired Ben Bishop for Conacher. Toronto got Jonathan Bernier for two prospects. Heck, Edmonton might be in the same "acquired a legit starter cheaply" boat with Scrivens and/or Fasth. It's always a good thing to develop good players at any position, but goaltending is one of those areas where quality can be found relatively cheap on the trade market and thus is less of a development priority in my mind.

Easy to trade for goalies..but 10 of the top 16 in playoff stats this year(so far) are with the team that drafted them/signed them to their ELC. Including 4 of the top 5.

 

[OF17]

It would be my preference that i was the GM trading Schneider, Bernier or Bishop for assets because i have too many goalies. Rather than spending assets to get unproven goaltenders to plug a hole i can't fill from within my own organization.

I also don't want to be like the Oilers current position where I put my eggs in the Dubnyk basket. Then the Bunz basket. Now the Broissoit basket. Then if it doesn't work out i'm hoping to get someone via trade or free agency.

That's definitely what the preference is, and that's what the goal should be. But doesn't that also work for wanting to be the team with forwards and defensemen to trade to fill other holes? I think that in general being good at acquiring and developing prospects is one of the biggest assets an organization can have, but I also think that that's more important for forwards and defense than it is for goaltending.

Easy to trade for goalies..but 10 of the top 16 in playoff stats this year(so far) are with the team that drafted them/signed them to their ELC. Including 4 of the top 5.

That's a good stat, and it does speak to how useful acquiring and developing can be. At the same time though, it's at least as apparent for forwards. Taking again that top 16 metric, 13 of the top 16 centers in playoff scoring are on the team that drafted them (or acquired them as prospects) and developed them. 11 of 16 LW are. Interestingly, only 8 of 16 RW are. Maybe we should trade Yak and Eberle?

In all seriousness though, drafting and developing is important at any position. The only point I'm trying to make is that goaltending is one area where hitting a home run outside of drafting and developing is more common and less expensive.

 

[missinthejets]

I also don't want to be like the Oilers current position where I put my eggs in the Dubnyk basket. Then the Bunz basket. Now the Broissoit basket. Then if it doesn't work out i'm hoping to get someone via trade or free agency.

It seems to me that Mctavish doesn't like putting all his eggs in one basket either. That was a real Tambo mentality. He'd pick his guys from the get go and never have a backup plan, at least MacT seems to want options and believe that if you have more players one of them is bound to work out. Now you might say he started with Dubnyk and LOLbarbera at the beginning but he was also trying to add people pretty much from day one too so I don't think we could ever say he was happy to go with that.

 

[SoftDumps]

No, i thought it was hilarious that a user named SoftDumps liked my Toilet Paper analogy. Maybe i have a bad sense of humor i dunno.

It was a great analogy. Definitely approved. Toilet paper is very important when dealing with the Oilers...who resemble a poop that could pass through the eye of a needle or a fine mesh sieve as opposed to a nice triumphant log.

 

[Oi'll say!]

Was DD worth more though? Nashvilles goalie coach trashed his technique and had to apologize to the oilers goalie coach for it, they didn't even keep him and now he's in the AHL right? That doesn't sound like a player worth a lot. Mctavish moved a goalie who was struggling badly for the type of player the team needed and it's very obvious that Hendricks added something intangible to the team.

As for Smid, his play dropped this year that is pretty undeniable and I say that as a big Smid fan. They are also in a position where a lot of young defenseman are going to start to break into the lineup soon and I do think the move really was made with the idea of making space for them. Comparing Smid to Ference is a bit silly too as Ference is here because he has more experience so if it's between Smid and Ference of course the GM is picking the guy he signed for the veteran and leadership role mostly. The fact that Smid didn't play any higher in the lineup in Calgary should be a wake up call as well. For a guy who has that kind of salary going forward the GM deemed him a movable asset and added some prospects to the system in an area the team was lacking. The will likely have to do the same with more defensemen in the future as well since they are a bit over stocked in that position.

Mctavish really does seem to have a good grasp on where the organization is weak and where it is strong and is making moves to try and balance things out, just that there's a lot of work to do and he can't wave a magic wand and fix them all instantly. I think he knows he goofed on the coaching thing but doesn't want to pull the trigger again until he's got the roster more in line with how he wants it.

One of the main problems with the team this year is that players look bad under Eakins and they're being traded based on their value as a player in his system. It's not normal for 27 and 28 yr old players to just drop off of the face of the earth like they are doing under Eakins. I'd rather have these players traded based on how good they looked playing for Mike Babcock.

MacT is trading some of the players who are struggling under Eakins but he obviously can't trade all of them. Petry, Gagner and Ference are up next. Where is he supposed to stop, and how much are we losing with every transaction? One day MacT will realise that Eakins is the main part of a lot of problems, but you can't put the toothepaste back in the tube. We will have to live with the diminishing returns of this system. Luckily we have the welfare draft to offset the costs somewhat.

 

[Oi'll say!]

You're right, flashes, he wasn't good, he wasn't "consistent", it was just Flashes.

Whine about the system and development or whatever else you need to, the reality is some player don't have what it takes to get beyond "flashes" Devan Dubnyk didn't.

When you want a comparable for Dubnyk and his "flashes" I present - Mathieu Garon.

Mathieu Garon was a big athletic goaltender who always "looked" like he could/should be an NHL starter...however never found consistency to get beyond "flashes". This is why he was never a starter. That is Devan Dubnyk. If you some of you want to pretend the Oilers tore him down and he would have been just fine, good for you, the fact is he was never consistent enough to be an NHL starter and now he's not consistent enough to be an NHLer.

Do you think we have a starter now Jimmi?

Scrivens had a sv% below .880 in 6 of his last 8 games here...

 

[rboomercat90]

I believe, that an organization should be able to develop 1 NHL starting goalie every 5 years. So if you draft a goalie every year, then in theory your success rate is 20%. Not great.

Goalies are a huge crapshoot. The position is just as mental as it is physical. Goalies can't make mistakes. Period. That's how it works. How they deal with failure and adversity is what separates a bad goalie from a good one.

Unfortunately you can't scout mental toughness. It only reveals itself during games usually at the most critical times.

For example, we knew Dubnyk wasn't a starter once he was handed the position and failed miserably. Before that, nothing indicated with 100% certainty that Dubnyk couldn't do the job. We had suspicions but it wasn't fact. That's the conundrum a team faces with goalies.

Consequently, you can't say that goalies are a crapshoot therefore we won't put as much efforts into our goalies as we do with the rest of our players.

I think that goalies can either play or they can't. We got several indications that Dubnyk didn't have the mental makeup to be an NHL starter back in 2010. After Khabibulin got hurt the starter position was open for anybody who wanted to grab it. Dubnyk may have been a rookie but his record was atrocious. He had so many opportunities to win games but he'd crack in the third period when the game was on the line. JDD had better numbers and many of us were surprised that summer when the organization decided to keep Dubnyk instead. If any goalie wants to complain about the Oilers screwing up their development it was JDD not Dubnyk. How many years of his career were wasted by not having anywhere to play him in the minors? Dubnyk didn't lose nearly as much development time, he was treated pretty well by this organization. The golden parachute of a contract for his last two years was another example of how well he was treated. What do you think his chances of getting any kind of a contract in North America are next year?

 

[Kayen]

Do you think we have a starter now Jimmi?

Scrivens had a sv% below .880 in 6 of his last 8 games here...

If you're going to focus solely on straight numbers, why don't you count the number of soft back-breaking goalies that DD let in? The number of high glove goals that weren't screened?

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I think that goalies can either play or they can't. We got several indications that Dubnyk didn't have the mental makeup to be an NHL starter back in 2010. After Khabibulin got hurt the starter position was open for anybody who wanted to grab it. Dubnyk may have been a rookie but his record was atrocious. He had so many opportunities to win games but he'd crack in the third period when the game was on the line. JDD had better numbers and many of us were surprised that summer when the organization decided to keep Dubnyk instead. If any goalie wants to complain about the Oilers screwing up their development it was JDD not Dubnyk. How many years of his career were wasted by not having anywhere to play him in the minors? Dubnyk didn't lose nearly as much development time, he was treated pretty well by this organization. The golden parachute of a contract for his last two years was another example of how well he was treated. What do you think his chances of getting any kind of a contract in North America are next year?

To be fair JDD is crap too. Oilers goaltending has pretty much been a black hole since CuJo left. Other than that brief period of Roloson doing well.

 

[Oi'll say!]

Kayen what was the point of quoting that post if you were just going to go ot? Do you have a comment on that stat or don't you?

So tell me about your high-glove stat now, I'm all ears.

 

[rboomercat90]

To be fair JDD is crap too. Oilers goaltending has pretty much been a black hole since CuJo left. Other than that brief period of Roloson doing well.

I agree that JDD was crap too and it could very well be that's the reason the Oilers chose to cross their fingers and go with Dubnyk after that season instead of him. All I was saying was that at the time JDD had the better season and Dubnyk looked like he was either a serious head case or had the worst luck ever.

Another poster was trying to infer that Dubnyk was a victim of the Oilers not having a proper developmental system and they screwed him. I think if that was the case for anybody it was for JDD and definitely not for Dubnyk.

 

[Mr Positive]

To be fair JDD is crap too. Oilers goaltending has pretty much been a black hole since CuJo left. Other than that brief period of Roloson doing well.

I don't think that it's a coincidence that the year that our "rebuild" started was the year that we walked away from Roloson and signed Khabi.

Roloson had a few great seasons after the Oilers as well.

 

[Playa Hejda]

I don't think that it's a coincidence that the year that our "rebuild" started was the year that we walked away from Roloson and signed Khabi.

Roloson had a few great seasons after the Oilers as well.

Roloson for two years? nah, too old. Khabi for four, that's the ticket!