Mackinnon vs Matthews vs Eichel

[Eltuna]

When did he become so?
Matthews has been better at every age.......

Matthews has showed continued improvement. He consistently improved incrementally. Mackinnon is up and down

What happened. Did mackinnon just decide to start trying? Or did he get on a line with chemistry and more PP than any other team by far???

The only argument people have is “development isn’t linear”. That was the same Tired argument for laine.

Bottom line is. Statistically.... by far the most likely scenario given history is

That a player who has been dramatically better at every age. Will continue to be better

This isn’t a great argument. Mackinnon at 22 was the runner up Hart trophy winner (IMO really should have won) and was on pace for 107 points. Does that mean if Matthews is any less than that this coming season when he is 22 that he has no hope of ever catching Mackinnon? As is it will be very difficult to top Mackinnons 2017-2018 season, it’s very likely Matthews never has a season better than that.

 

[TGWL]

Eichel is underrated and MacKinnon is overrated.

He's not underrated. He just hasn't done anything to put himself above the players listed with him. He's still a fantastic player, but what we know right now (which is what the OP said), the next 8 years I'm taking somebody else.

Hey, I'll take Eichel all day on my team, but it's not happening... Doesn't make him underrated.

 

[Spilot23]

Eichel is underrated and MacKinnon is overrated.

Mackinnon was called overrated last year after his 97 pts season. People said that he needed to do it again. Guess what he did it again followed with another PPG playoffs. The other two never went close (so far) what Mack did in term of production it's all about pace, P/60 and excuses but somehow he is the overrated one in this thread ? Weird.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Mackinnon was called overrated last year after his 97 pts season. People said that he needed to do it again. Guess what he did it again followed with another PPG playoffs. The other two never went close (so far) what Mack did in term of production it's all about pace, P/60 and excuses but somehow he is the overrated one in this thread ? Weird.

He's overrated because people are calling him the 2nd best center in the league. Hes an elite center but he's overrated. Its possible to be both.

 

[TGWL]

He's overrated because people are calling him the 2nd best center in the league. Hes an elite center but he's overrated. Its possible to be both.

Where do you have him ranked, 3rd?

 

[Spilot23]

He's overrated because people are calling him the 2nd best center in the league. Hes an elite center but he's overrated. Its possible to be both.

Alright, everyone is entitled to have his opinion. I thought you called him overrated compared to Matthews and Eichel my mistake I guess.

 

[SG1990]

Eichel is underrated and MacKinnon is overrated.

When 80% of people seem to be in agreement as well as actual NHL analysts... overrated becomes the term the minority in disagreement use fairly often.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

When 80% of people seem to be in agreement as well as actual NHL analysts... overrated becomes the term the minority in disagreement use fairly often.

"Actual NHL analysts" used to say Toews equal to or better than Crosby, too. They are just as prone to get caught up in the hype as the rest of us plebs. Sometimes even moreso.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Alright, everyone is entitled to have his opinion. I thought you called him overrated compared to Matthews and Eichel my mistake I guess.

I guess i'd have Eichel 3rd for now, but a lot of people feel Eichel is not even in the same tier as the other 2, which isn't the case. Of the 3 if i had to pick one for my team it would probably be Matthews. Maybe its based on projection but he's had a better trajectory than MacKinnon so far in his short career. He's been an elite scorer from day 1. MacKinnon wasn't until his 5th year. Matthews is about to begin year 4 and Eichel year 5 so we'll see what happens.

 

[Halla]

I trust that Matthews will get to Mackinnons level, because what his did on his ELC crushed what nate mac did

Matthews: 111g/205pts in 212 games
MacKinnon: 59g/153pts in 238 games


It took Mackinnon 5 seasons to hit 25g or 65+ pts. Matthews 40g/69pts as a rookie. Lets give AM 3 more seasons to hit that next level

 

[Legion34]

So statistically, Matthews has the potential to end up a top 5/10 player in the league as opposed to MacKinnon who has been a top 5/10 player in the last 2 seasons.

Development isn't linear and Laine is not a good player. Matthews is a good player but he barely cleared 70pts this year, but that doesn't hold a candle to MacKinnon and he will likely never reach that level.

I'll take the proven top 5/10 player over a player who has potential to get to that level. Nearly 80% of the voters would agree with that statement.

Statistically. Comparing Matthews to The first 3 years of EVERY player of the last 20 years.

Matthews is top 2-10 in every major category in his first 3 years.

Why would you expect his top potential to be top 5-10 in the current league?

Are ALL the best players in the NHL over the past 20 years playing in their primes now?

Why would he be the one exception to the general rules of comparing age by age numbers. The improvements that get made from 21-26.

Why would Matthews. Who had continued to improve every year..... just stop
And Mackinnon. Who is up and Down just improve?

Because he is a leaf?

 

[Halla]

For now, it's impossible not to say MacKinnon. MacKinnon broke out into a near 100 point player as a 22 year old. Which means Matthews has to do that this year, and Eichel had to do it last year.

MacKinnon
Matthews

Eichel

ehhhr no. Mackinnon broke out his 5th season. before that he averaged 52pts/year

Matthews is going into season #4 and has been a ppg+ for the last 2 seasons and hit 40g as a rookie.
Saying Matthews has to be a near 100pt player this year to equal mackinnon is a bit silly. His pt/gm pace over his career is better than Mackinnons despite being 3 years younger

 

[Leafsrock95]

As of now Mack, Matthews then Eichel.

Future I think Matthews then Mack and Eichel will be similar.

Eichel is underrated if he had Rantanen he probably hits 100.

 

[Spilot23]

ehhhr no. Mackinnon broke out his 5th season. before that he averaged 52pts/year

Matthews is going into season #4 and has been a ppg+ for the last 2 seasons and hit 40g as a rookie.
Saying Matthews has to be a near 100pt player this year to equal mackinnon is a bit silly. His pt/gm pace over his career is better than Mackinnons despite being 3 years younger

Why is it silly to use actual production compared to pace, pt/gm? To me it's more silly to use those stats as a sure thing that Matthews will surpass him when we don't even know if he will be able to play a full season let alone produce like Mack.

 

[Legion34]

This isn’t a great argument. Mackinnon at 22 was the runner up Hart trophy winner (IMO really should have won) and was on pace for 107 points. Does that mean if Matthews is any less than that this coming season when he is 22 that he has no hope of ever catching Mackinnon? As is it will be very difficult to top Mackinnons 2017-2018 season, it’s very likely Matthews never has a season better than that.

? And the question is “going forward”

So people are just going to assume that Mackinnon can repeat that year...... even though his 6th year was worse than his 5th

But Matthews. Who has been better both than mackinnon and to himself year by year. Just stops?

Because?????

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

ehhhr no. Mackinnon broke out his 5th season. before that he averaged 52pts/year

Matthews is going into season #4 and has been a ppg+ for the last 2 seasons and hit 40g as a rookie.
Saying Matthews has to be a near 100pt player this year to equal mackinnon is a bit silly. His pt/gm pace over his career is better than Mackinnons despite being 3 years younger

I'll ask you, since the other guy seems to want to avoid answering the question.

What's your prediction for Matthews' totals this year? Shouldn't the prediction be in line with "being better than MacKinnon", which would be 100 points or so?

 

[Eltuna]

? And the question is “going forward”

So people are just going to assume that Mackinnon can repeat that year...... even though his 6th year was worse than his 5th

But Matthews. Who has been better both than mackinnon and to himself year by year. Just stops?

Because?????

Again, development is not linear, the comparison was meant to show the fallacy in your logic. As I originally stated in this thread, I believe the question really boils down to ones preference for peak versus prime. If each guy is at their best, Mackinnon is the better player (after watching the entirety of each careers so far I really really believe this), but Matthews is more consistent and will have IMO the more impressive career when it’s all said and done with really good longevity.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Mackinnon based on current level of play but I can definitely see Matthews passing him.

Don’t really think Eichel belongs in this poll. He’s the worst of the three, is older than Matthews and is just one year younger than Mackinnon. Doubt he reaches Mackinnon’s abilities and if he does Matthews will have likely progressed too.

Eichel is a phenomenal young 1C but he’s being compared to two superstars in this thread. Not really fair to him.

 

[J T Money]

Statistically. Comparing Matthews to The first 3 years of EVERY player of the last 20 years.

Matthews is top 2-10 in every major category in his first 3 years.

Why would you expect his top potential to be top 5-10 in the current league?

Are ALL the best players in the NHL over the past 20 years playing in their primes now?

Why would he be the one exception to the general rules of comparing age by age numbers. The improvements that get made from 21-26.

Why would Matthews. Who had continued to improve every year..... just stop
And Mackinnon. Who is up and Down just improve?

Because he is a leaf?

Because 1 hasn't shown to be a top 5/10 player over the last 2 years and the other hasn't shown to be anywhere near that level regardless of statistics for his age say.

Not every player with that potential reach the top 5/10 and there's no guarantee he will ever get there.

Stats only carry you so far, results are what counts. 73 points is far from impressive and doesn't indicate that he will suddenly become a 100+pt player or ever get there in his career. Mackinnon has already reached that benchmark that so few have ever reached their entire careers.

Improvements come when they come, same with stagnitation and regression. There are zero guarantees that he improves, regardless of what age bracket. Teemu Selanne has his career year for his rookie season...so it can happen.

 

[Legion34]

Because 1 hasn't shown to be a top 5/10 player over the last 2 years and the other hasn't shown to be anywhere near that level regardless of statistics for his age say.

Not every player with that potential reach the top 5/10 and there's no guarantee he will ever get there.

Stats only carry you so far, results are what counts. 73 points is far from impressive and doesn't indicate that he will suddenly become a 100+pt player or ever get there in his career. Mackinnon has already reached that benchmark that so few have ever reached their entire careers.

Improvements come when they come, same with stagnitation and regression. There are zero guarantees that he improves, regardless of what age bracket. Teemu Selanne has his career year for his rookie season...so it can happen.

So would you also say there is zero guarantees that mackinnon doesn’t regress?

He also could have had his career year too right?

 

[cgf]

I did not know that so many east coast fans still under-rated MacK lol

So would you also say there is zero guarantees that mackinnon doesn’t regress?

He also could have had his career year too right?

MacK could regress by 15-20 points and steal beat your boy's career high, that's why we don't need to project any further development to make a case for MacK

 

[Golden_Jet]

MacKinnon, but Mathews has the potential to pass him, but looks disinterested at times.

 

[Legion34]

I did not know that so many east coast fans still under-rated MacK lol


MacK could regress by 20 points and steal beat your boy's career high

And that could happen right? He “could” regress to the point where he is a 52-53pt player right?

He has done this just as much as 90 pts

That’s the problem. “Anything could” happen.

But the far more likely thing is that the player who age by age who had always been better by age. Continues to be better

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Mackinnon based on current level of play but I can definitely see Matthews passing him.

Don’t really think Eichel belongs in this poll. He’s the worst of the three, is older than Matthews and is just one year younger than Mackinnon. Doubt he reaches Mackinnon’s abilities and if he does Matthews will have likely progressed too.

Eichel is a phenomenal young 1C but he’s being compared to two superstars in this thread. Not really fair to him.

And this is why some people think Eichel is underrated. He definitely deserves to be in the poll.

 

[cgf]

And that could happen right? He “could” regress to the point where he is a 52-53pt player right?

He has done this just as much as 90 pts

That’s the problem. “Anything could” happen.

But the far more likely thing is that the player who age by age who had always been better by age. Continues to be better

MacK would need to regress by a lot more than 20 points to become a 52-53 point player ;-)

And sure, anything could happen. So trade us Matthews for Jost cause Matthews could have a career ending injury tomorrow!