Series Discussion: (M1) Washington Capitals vs (WC1) Columbus Blue Jackets

[twabby]

Not in the postseason. Not when a mistake or two can send the entire franchise home. His production doesn’t outweigh his benefits YET.....at best it might balance....at best.

His risk/reward is certainly better than others on the roster such as Connolly, Chiasson, and DSP who all got into the lineup in Game 2 and proceeded to do nothing positive with their ice time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

His risk/reward is certainly better than others on the roster such as Connolly, Chiasson, and DSP.

Great, they’re not keeping him out of the lineup, his own poor defensive play is. Me, I would have saddled him to Backstrom to start.

 

[Sam Spade]

He can do this

That's not what people want? Some O from the Ds?

Hey I want Orpik out, but since that's not happening.......I like Jerabek but I can see WHY they did it.

 

[txpd]

Vrana goes from the bench to second line. Maybe he shouldn't have been on the bench if they are so willing to put him on the second line when Burakovsky's out.

Edit: it just screams of trying to fit players into roles instead of just playing your best players and making your system fit their strengths.

 

[txpd]

And we are back to ignoring that in reality players have roles. Or...some players play defense better. Some play offense better while a few are equally good both ways.

I am sure are fine with Vrana in the pm and Kempny on the pp

 

[RandyHolt]

.....

We're a patchwork franchise, we constantly try to make our best players conform to the system, I've yet to see a coach build the system around the tools we actually have at our disposal.

You nailed it - well said.

I am trying to nail going heavy on the Caps tonight +115. Like all in on red is something new....

 

[Raikkonen]

Leads the league in ES goals. Math checks out.

Who? Ovi has 2 PPG in 2 games. 0 ESG.

And I can hardly think of any moments he could score ESG besides his odd man rush which was totally a broken play happening once a year.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Who? Ovi has 2 PPG in 2 games. 0 ESG.

And I can hardly think of any moments he could score ESG besides his odd man rush which was totally a broken play happening once a year.

He scored over 30 ES goals this season, which is first in the league.

 

[Raikkonen]

He scored over 30 ES goals this season, which is first in the league.

Playoff juggernauts like Pens dont care about regular season. Jones and Werenski seem to not care too.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Sidney Crosby had arguably his worst statistical season and currently has 7 points in 3 games played. It's loser mentality to cling to regular season stats once the playoffs have started. We're grasping at straws as if we're trying to convince ourselves that regular season OV is comparable to the on ice product we've seen the last two games. Powerplay goals aside, I have seen Ovechkin matter in one period of six played at even strength, he is not absolved of this hot mess. Is it a coincidence that the only period that he seemed to be a force to be reckoned with was when we were down by one and staring a 2 game deficit in the face? I love the guy, but he absolutely suffers from selective interest. You can't convince me he's significantly hurt when I just watched him play his ass off in Game 82 to try and get goal 50 and play like that in period 3 of game 2.

Part of the existing problem is Ovechkin is only really called to task for his play once a series ends and even then we let the stat line convince us he's not a problem. We'll look back and go, "Well 2 points in 2 games, there were worse players on the ice." Truthfully I don't know what it is about the playoffs but he seems uncomfortable with the shift in style, and he has for a long while. I think we regularly assume he's hurt but I think he just genuinely is uncomfortable or unfamiliar with how his existing style fits into this different game. My arm chair analysis is that he simply refuses to adapt his game, he believes what got done in the regular season is the style that can get it done in the post season and when he meets adversity he chocks it up to bad bounces or luck. Whereas Kuznetsov has finally seemed to get it, he crashes the net, he's getting into physical play, he's extending play with his speed but not trying to walk the defense himself. Kuzy spent his first few years hitting that "wait, why does all the same things not work" wall, Ovechkin has weirdly reverted, he used to know what it took and now he's back to thinking "Nah, this will be fine."

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Playoff juggernauts like Pens dont care about regular season. Jones and Werenski seem to not care too.

No one gives a shit about the Pens right now. It's about winning game 3. What will be your argument if Ovi scores one or two ES goals to lead us to victory?

 

[g00n]

I honestly do not care if Ovie's goals are 90% PP as long as he scores them. Who else is doing it???

 

[Calicaps]

Reading this discussion you'd think the Caps lost both games 2-1 or 3-1 or even 5-1, like Philly. We've scored 7 goals in 2 games and still lost. Offense ain't the main problem here.

It's D. It's goaltending. It's discipline. And it's PK.

 

[twabby]

I still think it's fair to question their even strength output. They're 14th of 16 playoff teams in 5v5 goals and are losing 5-2 against Columbus at ES.

 

[Calicaps]

I still think it's fair to question their even strength output. They're 14th of 16 playoff teams in 5v5 goals and are losing 5-2 against Columbus at ES.

Fair point. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what kind of goals you score, only how many, and how many you allow. By all rights, ES or not, they should have won both of the first 2 games had they played even decent D and on the PK.

 

[twabby]

Fair point. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what kind of goals you score, only how many, and how many you allow. By all rights, ES or not, they should have won both of the first 2 games had they played even decent D and on the PK.

Agreed, just saying that you have to believe that Columbus will realize that they can't keep taking penalties and will force Washington to beat them at even strength. I'd be shocked if they keep parading to the penalty box tonight.

 

[Hivemind]

GMGM will screw Vegas up long term, those journeymen from the expansion draft have a limited shelf-life and the farm system is non-existant...

His immediate success likely handcuffed him in terms of building up his farm system. I guarantee that they would have liked to sell on some of those expiring contracts at the deadline to at least get some 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to help stockpile their system. But with contention squarely in their sights, they couldn't do so.

The thing is...it's possible they really did have this general framework they used, identifying speedy, hard-working players, etc., but just didn't expect the team to be good yet. Maybe they intentionally built a certain type of team but just didn't expect it to be a good version of that type yet. Then they'd deserve some credit. Or maybe they just hired a really, really good coach and got lucky on a couple of players in addition to some, like Marchessault and Smith and in a certain way Perron, who were known-ish to be good. I always liked GMGM personally, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion that he's just kind of dim.

I think this is pretty much the case. I don't think they planned on contending in year 1, but I also do think they were trying to identify players who fit what they wanted to do with the roster over the next few seasons. They managed to leverage salary cap and internal cap situations to their advantage well to acquire players with significant upside who fit their uptempo style. Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Schmidt, and Miller were good stylistic matches from both a short and long-term perspective. I have no doubt that they legitimately wanted those guys as building blocks for their franchise. Guys like Neal and Perron provided some short-term bang, but I assume they were initially grabbed with the intention of flipping them at the deadline. And even some of their more "questionable" moves like Haula and Tuch now seem like correctly identifying players stuck on the outside of numbers games through the power of hindsight.

They definitely took some gambles, and definitely cam out lucky on a lot of them. The level of success they've achieved has defied all expectations. There's almost certainly regression ahead, and it will definitely be far more costly if they want to retain this talent after their breakout years. But they did a good job at identifying players with potential and putting together a team that meshed stylistically and finding a coach to groom and guide them. I don't think anyone intentionally punts on building a team, and I certainly think they had several of these players in mind as potential medium-to-long term pieces.

 

[Hivemind]

I prefer Jerabek over Djoos at the moment

Jerabek was hot garbage in game 2.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Reading this discussion you'd think the Caps lost both games 2-1 or 3-1 or even 5-1, like Philly. We've scored 7 goals in 2 games and still lost. Offense ain't the main problem here.

It's D. It's goaltending. It's discipline. And it's PK.

I'm somewhat concerned with even strength production.

I believe 4 if not 5 of those 7 goals are PP

 

[IafrateOvie34]

His immediate success likely handcuffed him in terms of building up his farm system. I guarantee that they would have liked to sell on some of those expiring contracts at the deadline to at least get some 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to help stockpile their system. But with contention squarely in their sights, they couldn't do so.



I think this is pretty much the case. I don't think they planned on contending in year 1, but I also do think they were trying to identify players who fit what they wanted to do with the roster over the next few seasons. They managed to leverage salary cap and internal cap situations to their advantage well to acquire players with significant upside who fit their uptempo style. Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Schmidt, and Miller were good stylistic matches from both a short and long-term perspective. I have no doubt that they legitimately wanted those guys as building blocks for their franchise. Guys like Neal and Perron provided some short-term bang, but I assume they were initially grabbed with the intention of flipping them at the deadline. And even some of their more "questionable" moves like Haula and Tuch now seem like correctly identifying players stuck on the outside of numbers games through the power of hindsight.

They definitely took some gambles, and definitely cam out lucky on a lot of them. The level of success they've achieved has defied all expectations. There's almost certainly regression ahead, and it will definitely be far more costly if they want to retain this talent after their breakout years. But they did a good job at identifying players with potential and putting together a team that meshed stylistically and finding a coach to groom and guide them. I don't think anyone intentionally punts on building a team, and I certainly think they had several of these players in mind as potential medium-to-long term pieces.

If they win the cup this will turn the professional sports world upside down and show no plan or model is set for winning a championship. I'm not a fan of Vegas, but I do like their coach a lot.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Agreed, just saying that you have to believe that Columbus will realize that they can't keep taking penalties and will force Washington to beat them at even strength. I'd be shocked if they keep parading to the penalty box tonight.

They are in a good position and I wouldn't be surprised if they try to goon it up some if they have a good lead. No doubt about it, I think we can safely say they have talked about it in the locker room that the Caps PP is hurting them.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Fair point. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what kind of goals you score, only how many, and how many you allow. By all rights, ES or not, they should have won both of the first 2 games had they played even decent D and on the PK.

This is a big reason why a large part of us think this year was overachieving and quite surprised with the regular season finish. They've done quite well with the hand given to them, however the dumb penalties are the big reason this team is down 0-2 in the series. Some of those are just unforgivable with a lead in the game.

 

[RandyHolt]

Jerabek was hot garbage in game 2.

Hot? There was a lot of trash to go around.

I wonder if Anderson has Djoos in his sights.

 

[peterthegreat12]

Hide Djoos, hide!

 

[Langway]

I'm somewhat concerned with even strength production.

I believe 4 if not 5 of those 7 goals are PP

5 of 7. Their only ES goals have been scored by Da Grinderz: Beagle & DSP.