LW Quentin Musty - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 26th, SJS)

[Pete Taylor]

Yes, but they're not relevant examples. Musty wasn't competing for their spots any more than Will Smith and Gabe Perreault were.

How are they not relevant if we are talking about making the roster and playing in the OHL? Because they have different 'roles'?

 

[mphmiles]

Do you know of any two points per game forwards that they've snubbed before? Genuine question.

Debrincat, infamously.

I've been surprised in a bad way before, but I think he'll make the team next year, as he will be one of the team's most talented offensive top 6 forwards.

Usually guys like Musty or Debrincat get snubbed because the coaching staff doesn't project them in the top 6, and they don't fit the sandpaper 4th line profile that the org likes adding to the roster. Jason Robertson was projected top 6, so he made it.

I think the only way he's left off is if Eiserman beats him out, (And he'll have a big leg up being a year older) and even then he might still make it.

 

[William H Bonney]

How are they not relevant if we are talking about making the roster and playing in the OHL? Because they have different 'roles'?

Precisely. You're comparing guys competing for 4th line grinder roles against a guy who's competing for a top 9 scoring role. They're not competing against each other for the same roles, so if one makes it while another doesn't, highlighting that is not really relevant.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Precisely. You're comparing guys competing for 4th line grinder roles against a guy who's competing for a top 9 scoring role. They're not competing against each other for the same roles, so if one makes it while another doesn't, highlighting that is not really relevant.

Sure, but on the flip side, who exactly is Musty competing for a role with? We only have four returning forwards in Smith, Perrault, Leonard, and Moore. Only two of those guys are wingers and if strictly necessary Leonard has the game to play a bottom-six style game.

Leaving Musty off the roster would have to involve them preferring 2+ wingers from the 2024 draft class. Or doing something wacky like forcing Moore into the top-6 and moving Hagens to wing.

If Musty is left off the 2025 WJC roster then it’s because USA Hockey doesn’t want him no matter how talented he is.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As long as the coach doesn't just take the best 8/9 wingers, he's competing for like 4/6 spots.

This is his competition

Leonard-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Perreault-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Trevor Connelly-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL
Cole Eiserman-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL/for the NTDP
Mac Swanson-Not a projected high pick (due to height), but lighting up USHL otherwise

If Smith returns for another year, there's a good chance one of Moore or Hagens might be pushed to the wing too, especially if they give returner Nelson the benefit of the doubt in more than a 4C role. There's also always a surprise player or two that USAH falls in love with, and always a surprise snub.

It's going to be 50/50 for Musty I think. He kind of fits the categories they love to snub with being CHL, having a checkered history with USAH in the past, and being a player whose compete level and turnovers can be an issue.

 

[William H Bonney]

Sure, but on the flip side, who exactly is Musty competing for a role with? We only have four returning forwards in Smith, Perrault, Leonard, and Moore. Only two of those guys are wingers and if strictly necessary Leonard has the game to play a bottom-six style game.

Leaving Musty off the roster would have to involve them preferring 2+ wingers from the 2024 draft class. Or doing something wacky like forcing Moore into the top-6 and moving Hagens to wing.

If Musty is left off the 2025 WJC roster then it’s because USA Hockey doesn’t want him no matter how talented he is.

I'm not advocating they leave him off. Just that if they do leave him off, it's not because of who they decided to choose for the fourth line. I would have him on the team. If he doesn't make it, it won't really have anything to do with him being in the CHL, though. It'll be due to fit / skating / compete concerns.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm not advocating they leave him off. Just that if they do leave him off, it's not because of who they decided to choose for the fourth line. I would have him on the team. If he doesn't make it, it won't really have anything to do with him being in the CHL, though. It'll be due to fit / skating / compete concerns.

“Fit” is a generic term for “we just don’t like him”.

I agree that it won’t be because of the fourth liners involved. I’m just saying that there is no real justification for leaving him off and if he is, it’s because USA Hockey has a problem with him personally. You don’t leave off a guy who put up 2 PPG in the OHL as an 18 year old because he doesn’t “fit”. You change the bottom of the lineup to make him fit. You can always make a guy that talented fit if you want. If they don’t, it’s because they didn’t want him on the team no matter how good he is.

 

[William H Bonney]

“Fit” is a generic term for “we just don’t like him”.

I agree that it won’t be because of the fourth liners involved. I’m just saying that there is no real justification for leaving him off and if he is, it’s because USA Hockey has a problem with him personally. You don’t leave off a guy who put up 2 PPG in the OHL as an 18 year old because he doesn’t “fit”. You change the bottom of the lineup to make him fit. You can always make a guy that talented fit if you want. If they don’t, it’s because they didn’t want him on the team no matter how good he is.

I have not said there is a justification. You're preaching to the choir.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Seems like obvious solution

NHL teams already pay a transfer fee when they grab a kid from the CHL before his eligibility expires. But part of the transfer agreement forbids them putting 18 or 19 year olds in the AHL. They should just extend it to putting kids in the AHL as well, even if to start they want to just limit it to 1st round picks (very few 2nd-7th round picks are ready for the AHL at 19 as is and could stand to benefit from playing a big role in Juniors that season).

 

[WarriorofTime]

I would question if USA Hockey is actively sabotaging itself if they left Musty off. He is arguably the best forward in the OHL at age 18. USA has a talent edge over any country that isn't Canada so they should be looking to bring 3 scoring lines again. Leonard-Smith-Perreault should be top line if all go back to college. Musty, Eisermann, Connelly should all be top 9 wingers as well. Don't even know about the fouth, maybe slide Moore over (Hagens as 2nd line center and put Nelson as 3rd line center). If we're already reaching down to players like Whitelaw, Swanson, then you're just actively trying to leave Musty off out of spite.

As weird as DeBrincat situation was, it was a crowded winger set that year with former USNDTP guys in Keller, Anderson, Greenway, Bracco, Bellows, Thompson and Terry, also DeBrincat was useless as a 13th forward the prior year. There's really no argument for any of the not already mentioned former USNDTP guys over Musty.

 

[William H Bonney]

I would question if USA Hockey is actively sabotaging itself if they left Musty off. He is arguably the best forward in the OHL at age 18. USA has a talent edge over any country that isn't Canada so they should be looking to bring 3 scoring lines again. Leonard-Smith-Perreault should be top line if all go back to college. Musty, Eisermann, Connelly should all be top 9 wingers as well. Don't even know about the fouth, maybe slide Moore over (Hagens as 2nd line center and put Nelson as 3rd line center). If we're already reaching down to players like Whitelaw, Swanson, then you're just actively trying to leave Musty off out of spite.

As weird as DeBrincat situation was, it was a crowded winger set that year with former USNDTP guys in Keller, Anderson, Greenway, Bracco, Bellows, Thompson and Terry, also DeBrincat was useless as a 13th forward the prior year. There's really no argument for any of the not already mentioned former USNDTP guys over Musty.

For sure. People just act like it's a CHL thing when Kyle Connor is arguably the biggest USA WJC snub in a long while. Hockey federations make a lot of dumb decisions, even in cases where the correct decision is obvious.