LW Dylan Holloway - University of Wisconsin, NCAA (2020, 14th, EDM)

[Digitalbooya]

You are overselling that Wisconsin group a lot. I can’t figure out why.

No one rates those Wisconsin forwards, aside from the three big names, as having anything other than an outside chance of reaching the NHL.

Maybe you'll figure it out eventually but you don't have to be a player destined for the NHL to be able to produce well at the college level.

Draft picks:
Turcotte (5th overall 2019)
Caufield (15th overall 2019)
Donovan (110th overall 2019)
Lindmark (137th overall 2019)
Miller (22nd overall 2018)
Emberson (73rd overall 2018)
Gorniak (123rd overall 2018)
Inamoto (133rd overall 2017)
Weissbach (192nd overall 2017)
Kalynuk (196th overall 2017)
Ess (215th overall 2017)
Zimmer (104th overall 2016)

That's 12/24 skaters on Wisconsin that were drafted by NHL teams. Sean Dhooghe probably would have been drafted if he wasn't 5'3" 150lbs. Yet, he still tied for the scoring lead on last year's team and he plays a Zach Parise kind of game where he's getting a lot of his goals in the dirty areas. Tarek Baker is an excellent example of a pretty good college player that (likely) won't play in the NHL. Wasn't drafted, but he has great hustle, a bit of scoring touch, defensive prowess, etc. Pelton-Byce put up 25 in 33 playing for Harvard. That's pretty good for an undrafted player.

The point is that Holloway has the chance to be above 1PPG as a first year draft-eligible in college hockey. I believe there are only a handful or so of those players in recent NCAA history. He’s likely not hitting that playing with other players. You can try to pump up the Wisconsin secondary forwards all you want, but they are all non-prospects or the most borderline level prospects that you can be. Playing on a PP with those two and Miller would help his point production, but he’ll be helped even more playing with Caufield and Turcotte at even strength.

I’m not a Wisconsin fan nor do I have any extra reason to root for Holloway, so I don’t care either way, but it would be best for Holloway and best for scouts that want to watch the prospects on this team to put them all on a line together.

You think anyone but you gives a damn about making things best for the scouts? Wisconsin is a harder team to beat with the elite talent spread across two lines instead of one. Holloway will get to reap the benefits of the PP and not having to face top defensive units while even strength.

 

[tealhockey]

Maybe you'll figure it out eventually but you don't have to be a player destined for the NHL to be able to produce well at the college level.

Exactly. by the same token, you can produce relatively average in college and still translate into a brilliant NHLer, it all depends on the player. Holloway in his draft year and has massive expectations already, he might do just 'fine' this year, could still be a killer prospect. Either way I think your post is a great advertisement for how good the Badgers should be in 2020 + next season once the young guns get their legs under them. If they don't lose K'Andre (doubtful) and some other names it will be a group to remember..

 

[Riggins]

I liked his play yesterday against UBC. Solid size, really good skater and he gets after it every shift. He's never going to be a passenger by the looks of it. He also showed some soft hands. He wasn't playing with Turcotte and Caufield but he did overlap with Cole a couple times. Excited to follow him this year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah that would be because I've watched them play a ton. I actually did think they were decidedly a bottom-barrel team in the big ten last year until they showed and proved that they have some fire-power down the stretch. The question isn't whether you think they are going to be big time NHLers (I don't, and no one has implied that), the question is how good are they in college hockey playing alongside Holloway.

The situation we are discussing has to do with your arbitrary conclusion that he can't hit point-per-game if he doesn't play on what would be the youngest line in college hockey. I suspect he has just as strong a chance (if not better) playing with the guys who are premier players in division 1 today (Dhooghe, Weissbach) rather than the all-potential line. It has more to do with how well his game translates to the Big Ten, which (OSU and Notre Dame not-with-standing) likely won't be the most defensively inclined conference this season anyway.

For what it's worth, I haven't said squat about anyone's NHL potential, I've only noted it ought to be a strong, cohesive (albeit young) group in college hockey, particularly from an offensive standpoint as they have a good group up front flanked by a guy who can quarterback with results + a thoroughbred in K'Andre who is tough to contain and play against.

You are still overselling these players. Their stats aren't that impressive either. Not one of them was 1PPG or better last season. The top tier NCAA players don't struggle to hit 1PPG. K'Andre Miller, a freshman defensemen without elite offensive talent, was leading the team in points until a late season injury. It's a very average group of forwards, aside from the Freshmen.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe you'll figure it out eventually but you don't have to be a player destined for the NHL to be able to produce well at the college level.

Draft picks:
Turcotte (5th overall 2019)
Caufield (15th overall 2019)
Donovan (110th overall 2019)
Lindmark (137th overall 2019)
Miller (22nd overall 2018)
Emberson (73rd overall 2018)
Gorniak (123rd overall 2018)
Inamoto (133rd overall 2017)
Weissbach (192nd overall 2017)
Kalynuk (196th overall 2017)
Ess (215th overall 2017)
Zimmer (104th overall 2016)

I said forwards, so 5 of those 12 have nothing to do with what I was saying.

What are you trying to prove by listing all of your team's draft picks? I think they'll be good, as well, and the spirit of my point didn't relate to players such as Donovan or Lindmark either. It was pushing back on this idea that putting him with the experienced veteran NCAA players, who played at a very average level in seasons prior and are not regarded as high-level prospects, will yield results for Holloway anywhere near as good as the results he'd have with Caufield and Turcotte.

 

[tealhockey]

It was pushing back on this idea that putting him with the experienced veteran NCAA players, who played at a very average level in seasons prior and are not regarded as high-level prospects.

This is your weak thinking back at it again. Just because you can't get excited about them for the NHL (how many Wisconsin games did you watch again?) doesn't make them any less excellent players (read: not 'very average') in the NCAA. Point-watching ≠ prospect analysis

Also, there are 5 players on the ice (six, counting the goaltender). Believe it or not, they all impact each other one way or another.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Excited to see Holloway and Wisco live twice this year.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I said forwards, so 5 of those 12 have nothing to do with what I was saying.

What are you trying to prove by listing all of your team's draft picks? I think they'll be good, as well, and the spirit of my point didn't relate to players such as Donovan or Lindmark either. It was pushing back on this idea that putting him with the experienced veteran NCAA players, who played at a very average level in seasons prior and are not regarded as high-level prospects, will yield results for Holloway anywhere near as good as the results he'd have with Caufield and Turcotte.

Based on what? He'll get to reap the benefits of playing with good college players against second tier defense from the opposition. If he's with Turcotte and Caufield he will benefit. If he's not with them, he is still benefiting from them. Weissbach is a really damn good college player. If Holloway wants to play on that 1st line he has to outperform him. Plain and simple.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If Holloway can’t outperform him, he’s not very good.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If Holloway can’t outperform him, he’s not very good.

If an 18 y/o NCAA freshman in his draft year cant outproduce one of his team’s best players (who also is 3 years older) he isn’t very good?

This is like saying Tkachuk wasn’t a good prospect in ‘17-18 because he didn’t put up more points than Carpenter.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If an 18 y/o NCAA freshman in his draft year cant outproduce one of his team’s best players (who also is 3 years older) he isn’t very good?

This is like saying Tkachuk wasn’t a good prospect in ‘17-18 because he didn’t put up more points than Carpenter.

Tkachuk is one of the few examples of a top 10 pick who didn't produce in his freshman season, yet turned into a productive NHL'er. Most top 10 picks score above 1PPG as a freshmen, whether they are picked in the top 10 after the season or before the season.

If Holloway can't score around 1PPG as a freshman, he's probably not going in the top half of the first round, especially considering this is a deeper draft. And at that point, drafts drop off, and players in the back half of of the first round are always somewhat of a long shot. Holloway has been talked up as a player the caliber of Turcotte or Caufield, but in the next draft. Let's see it. Put him with those guys, and lets see what he can do. If he can't earn a spot on the first line over a 21 year old who has played three seasons in NA, two in the NCAA, 1 in the USHL and hasn't scored 1PPG any of those seasons, he's likely not that caliber of player.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Most top 10 picks score above 1PPG as a freshmen, whether they are picked in the top 10 after the season or before the season.

But he’s playing his draft year as a 18 y/o (I know he’s on the older side of the draft class) NCAA freshman. Even with his birthday, it’s definitely different from playing it in your D+1.

In the past 10 years, only two top 10 picks that were forwards played in the NCAA in their draft season. Eichel and Tkachuk. One had one of the best seasons we’ve seen and one was well under a P/PG. Two extremes. You’re trying to point out comparables when there hardly is any.

Assuming he puts up decent numbers (like 30 plus points or so assuming Wisco goes far) it’s pretty silly and arbitrary to knock a 18 y/o NCAA freshman on top team in a good conference (increasingly rare) if he’s not at P/PG, especially if he’s not on the top line or PP1 in favor of older/ more established players.

 

[tealhockey]

But he’s playing his draft year as a 18 y/o (I know he’s on the older side of the draft class) NCAA freshman. Even with his birthday, it’s definitely different from playing it in your D+1.

In the past 10 years, only two top 10 picks that were forwards played in the NCAA in their draft season. Eichel and Tkachuk. One had one of the best seasons we’ve seen and one was well under a P/PG. Two extremes. You’re trying to point out comparables when there hardly is any.

Assuming he puts up decent numbers (like 30 plus points or so assuming Wisco goes far) it’s pretty silly and arbitrary to knock a 18 y/o NCAA freshman on top team in a good conference (increasingly rare) if he’s not at P/PG, especially if he’s not on the top line or PP1 in favor of older/ more established players.

Casey Mittelstadt didn't even do it playing in the same conference Holloway will be, the year after going 8th overall. This guy has just dug himself in with his statement about the all-01 line and true to form won't acknowledge anyone else could know anything about the game lol

 

[Digitalbooya]

Holloway with another goal in the 1st period today.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But he’s playing his draft year as a 18 y/o (I know he’s on the older side of the draft class) NCAA freshman. Even with his birthday, it’s definitely different from playing it in your D+1.

In the past 10 years, only two top 10 picks that were forwards played in the NCAA in their draft season. Eichel and Tkachuk. One had one of the best seasons we’ve seen and one was well under a P/PG. Two extremes. You’re trying to point out comparables when there hardly is any.

Assuming he puts up decent numbers (like 30 plus points or so assuming Wisco goes far) it’s pretty silly and arbitrary to knock a 18 y/o NCAA freshman on top team in a good conference (increasingly rare) if he’s not at P/PG, especially if he’s not on the top line or PP1 in favor of older/ more established players.

You can also use the examples of some recent defensemen. It's not exact, but Hughes, Hanifin and Werenski were all well over half a point per game as a freshman. I don't know how much you followed Tkachuk's draft, but his lack of scoring was considered the biggest knock on his game. It wasn't considered normal production for a player that would go in the top 10.

As to Holloway, where did I knock him? If he's around 1PPG, which he would be if he scores 30+ points, he should have a chance to go in the top half of the first round. I'm not going to argue semantical predictions with you over whether that 30+ point total will be higher than Weissbach's, but if his production is 30+ points, he should probably have earned the 1LW role on the team. If his production is more similar to Tkachuk, I doubt he's picked in the top half of the first round. Tkachuk was helped by his brother's success, the family name, his play at the WJC and being viewed as a forward whose impact was less reliant on scoring points.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Casey Mittelstadt didn't even do it playing in the same conference Holloway will be, the year after going 8th overall. This guy has just dug himself in with his statement about the all-01 line and true to form won't acknowledge anyone else could know anything about the game lol

Most freshmen score around 1PPG or better. If I'm wrong, use stats of players who were drafted in the top 10-15 and who didn't average close to 1PPG. Don't throw one example out there and claim victory. Thats as weak of an argument as you can make. Mittelstadt doesn't prove or disprove any point. The whole trend proves or disproves the point. Besides, Mittelstadt had 30 points in 34 games, which is nearly 1PPG. You can't even make an argument that goes in your favor, and you are trying to tell me that I'm digging myself in. The irony is hilarious.

 

[Petterssonic]

Playing on a line with Turcotte and Caufield now 5 on 5. Still on 2nd unit PP. His goal in the first was a beauty one timer top shelf.

 

[tealhockey]

Can see it here at the end. Looking pretty good whoever he plays with. Looks to be Roman Ahcan screening

 

[tealhockey]

Most freshmen score around 1PPG or better. If I'm wrong, use stats of players who were drafted in the top 10-15 and who didn't average close to 1PPG. Don't throw one example out there and claim victory. Thats as weak of an argument as you can make. Mittelstadt doesn't prove or disprove any point. The whole trend proves or disproves the point. Besides, Mittelstadt had 30 points in 34 games, which is nearly 1PPG. You can't even make an argument that goes in your favor, and you are trying to tell me that I'm digging myself in. The irony is hilarious.

Not only are you wrong, I've wasted enough time replying to you on this forum big guy. Learned my lesson now

 

[thelittlecoon]

Really love this kid's game. Both games against UBC over the weekend he was among the most dominant in puck possession and making plays consistently. What a cannon of a shot too. He along with Turcotte and Miller looked amazing and a threat every time they touched the puck. Wisconsin should be quite the team this year; Caufield sure is gonna put up some big goal totals with that lineup around him.

 

[EveryDay]

Really love this kid's game. Both games against UBC over the weekend he was among the most dominant in puck possession and making plays consistently. What a cannon of a shot too. He along with Turcotte and Miller looked amazing and a threat every time they touched the puck. Wisconsin should be quite the team this year; Caufield sure is gonna put up some big goal totals with that lineup around him.

I've watch both game too and he look pretty in both game but the best players on the ice this weekend were by far Caufield and Turcotte.

 

[cg98]

Buch at it again with his amazing observations for talent

 

[thelittlecoon]

I've watch both game too and he look pretty in both game but the best players on the ice this weekend were by far Caufield and Turcotte.

I was at the rink. Caufield made some good plays and buried his chances but I think Turcotte Miller and Holloway stood out more.

 

[canadiensnation]

This kid is an absolute horse. All situations top 6 center in the making.

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

He could also do a year in College then jump to the WHL the following year, probably not a 4 year college player anyways.

He has stated multiple times he has no interest in the WHL and wants to go to college.... but by all means keep the pipe dream alive in your mind....