paille#1 said:Ahh what a good night at work..lol
Well anyways back to what I started, my point is you can't judge goalies on opinion or "potential", rather you judge them on stats, their teams success with them, and their play.
That is exactly what I am doing and all Lundqvist, Miller, and Lehtonen are better than Toivonen.
All of the above except Miller have a MUCH higher winning % than the rest of the goalies on their team.[/QUOTE said:Yeah, but do you considering Michael Garnett, Kevin Weekes, or Andrew Raycroft to be in the same class as Marty Biron?
Beukeboom Fan said:All right then, since you're convinced that stat's are much better way of evaluating goalies rather than actually watching them play:
GP W L GAA SPP
Lundquist 48 28 10 2.17 .924
Miller 38 25 10 2.51 .916
Toivonen 20 9 5 2.63 .914
Lehtonen 31 17 12 2.68 .910
I think it's pretty GD obvious that HT is at least deserves to be in the discussion based on his stats with the other guys. All of the above except Miller have a MUCH higher winning % than the rest of the goalies on their team.
johnny_rudeboy said:Anyway, it is fun that there is so many young goalies making a name for them self in the NHL. Who knows who will be the best of them in 5 years time? And next year it might be a new kid with a mask who makes freak saves all game long? Time will tell.
That pretty much sums it all up very nicely. Its hard to convey just how bad the Bruins were when Toivonen started playing, they were the worst I've ever seen them, worse than 1997 when they finished last, and their biggest problem was their defense. Toivonen would be the only guy on the Bruins to show up at all on some nights.Beukeboom Fan said:You don't understand the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS
Fact: Toivonen has played in all of 20 NHL games. No one can be certain how he will turn out.
Fact: Toivonen's statistics this year are very favorable to almost everyone on that list.
Fact: He put up some VERY good numbers playing behind a team that was absolutely in disarray. Of course, it was still only 20 games.
Fact: Toivonen is one of the youngest goalies playing right now in the NHL. That does not necessarily mean that he will continue developing, but it is definetely possible.
Fact: The publications (and many posters here) expected Toivonen to take the job from Raycroft relatively quickly. This process was accelerated by Raycroft melting down.
Opinion: Toivonen has shown a ton of potential during very limited action to date. He deserves to be included in the great young goaltending group of Lundquist, Miller, Lehtonen, and Fleury (among others). They all have the skills to be a franchise goalies and top guys in the NHL. Of course, that is far from assured as there are a ton of talented players that never realize their potential and make it in the NHL.
Opinion: I think it is hard to overstate how difficult a position that Toivonen was in for the Bruins. The team was absolutely in free-fall when he started getting starts, and he helped to stop the bleeding.
It's funny to me that you consider Miller to be a much more proven NHL goalie as he's only played in 58 career NHL games.
edd1e said:That new kid is Rask
nomoment said:Lundqvist is currently the best.
johnny_rudeboy said:Will Leafs bring him over next season? I have heard a lot of good things about him. Hope what they say are true. Will every team include atleast one Finnish goalie in the draft from now on?
Mountaineer said:I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.
I hope he won't be in the NHL next year. One or two more seasons in Finland and then he might be ready I think.edd1e said:Well, i wasnt very serious. He could be in NHL next year, but who knows..
Mountaineer said:He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.
I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.
Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.
Mountaineer said:He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.
I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.
Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.
paille#1 said:Also Birons winning percent is also 66% so looks like we are good in that column
Beukeboom Fan said:Doesn't that actually reduce Miller's percieved value if a guy like Biron is winning at the same pace? BUFF is playing amazing this year, and they aren't counting on Miller to do it. Both the Rangers & Thrashers are counting on their starters to carry the load.
All I'm saying is that all 3 of the other guys play on teams where the back-up goaltender is SUBSTANTIALLY worse than the starter. I would also say that going into this year Weekes and Raycroft were about on PAR with Biron.
paille#1 said:No but since you wanna talk winpercentage, Miller's dominates the other three
Miller - 66%
Lundy - 55%
Lehtonen- 54%
Toivonen - 44%
Mountaineer said:He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.
I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.
Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.
johnny_rudeboy said:Will Leafs bring him over next season? I have heard a lot of good things about him. Hope what they say are true. Will every team include atleast one Finnish goalie in the draft from now on?
Kodiak said:So basically, Niittymaki will be the best because he plays for the Flyers and you're a Flyers fan. Is that about right?
Mountaineer said:He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.
I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.
Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.