Lundqvist, Miller, Toivonen, Niitymaki

[bruins_19]

toivonen
toivonen
toivonen

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Ahh what a good night at work..lol

Well anyways back to what I started, my point is you can't judge goalies on opinion or "potential", rather you judge them on stats, their teams success with them, and their play.

That is exactly what I am doing and all Lundqvist, Miller, and Lehtonen are better than Toivonen.

All right then, since you're convinced that stat's are much better way of evaluating goalies rather than actually watching them play:

GP W L GAA SPP
Lundquist 48 28 10 2.17 .924
Miller 38 25 10 2.51 .916
Toivonen 20 9 5 2.63 .914
Lehtonen 31 17 12 2.68 .910

I think it's pretty GD obvious that HT is at least deserves to be in the discussion based on his stats with the other guys. All of the above except Miller have a MUCH higher winning % than the rest of the goalies on their team.

 

[Buffalo87]

Yeah, but do you considering Michael Garnett, Kevin Weekes, or Andrew Raycroft to be in the same class as Marty Biron?

 

[The Sanchise]

All right then, since you're convinced that stat's are much better way of evaluating goalies rather than actually watching them play:

GP W L GAA SPP
Lundquist 48 28 10 2.17 .924
Miller 38 25 10 2.51 .916
Toivonen 20 9 5 2.63 .914
Lehtonen 31 17 12 2.68 .910

I think it's pretty GD obvious that HT is at least deserves to be in the discussion based on his stats with the other guys. All of the above except Miller have a MUCH higher winning % than the rest of the goalies on their team.

No but since you wanna talk winpercentage, Miller's dominates the other three
Miller - 66%
Lundy - 55%
Lehtonen- 54%
Toivonen - 44%

 

[The Sanchise]

Also Birons winning percent is also 66% so looks like we are good in that column

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Anyway, it is fun that there is so many young goalies making a name for them self in the NHL. Who knows who will be the best of them in 5 years time? And next year it might be a new kid with a mask who makes freak saves all game long? Time will tell.

 

[edd1e]

Anyway, it is fun that there is so many young goalies making a name for them self in the NHL. Who knows who will be the best of them in 5 years time? And next year it might be a new kid with a mask who makes freak saves all game long? Time will tell.

That new kid is Rask

 

[dafoomie]

You don't understand the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS

Fact: Toivonen has played in all of 20 NHL games. No one can be certain how he will turn out.

Fact: Toivonen's statistics this year are very favorable to almost everyone on that list.

Fact: He put up some VERY good numbers playing behind a team that was absolutely in disarray. Of course, it was still only 20 games.

Fact: Toivonen is one of the youngest goalies playing right now in the NHL. That does not necessarily mean that he will continue developing, but it is definetely possible.

Fact: The publications (and many posters here) expected Toivonen to take the job from Raycroft relatively quickly. This process was accelerated by Raycroft melting down.

Opinion: Toivonen has shown a ton of potential during very limited action to date. He deserves to be included in the great young goaltending group of Lundquist, Miller, Lehtonen, and Fleury (among others). They all have the skills to be a franchise goalies and top guys in the NHL. Of course, that is far from assured as there are a ton of talented players that never realize their potential and make it in the NHL.

Opinion: I think it is hard to overstate how difficult a position that Toivonen was in for the Bruins. The team was absolutely in free-fall when he started getting starts, and he helped to stop the bleeding.

It's funny to me that you consider Miller to be a much more proven NHL goalie as he's only played in 58 career NHL games.

That pretty much sums it all up very nicely. Its hard to convey just how bad the Bruins were when Toivonen started playing, they were the worst I've ever seen them, worse than 1997 when they finished last, and their biggest problem was their defense. Toivonen would be the only guy on the Bruins to show up at all on some nights.

I'm not going to say who is better, its hard to predict and these are all very talented players. But to say that Toivonen is not even in their class? Rediculous.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

That new kid is Rask

Will Leafs bring him over next season? I have heard a lot of good things about him. Hope what they say are true. Will every team include atleast one Finnish goalie in the draft from now on?

 

[Gert B Frobe]

Lundqvist is currently the best.

He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.

 

[edd1e]

Will Leafs bring him over next season? I have heard a lot of good things about him. Hope what they say are true. Will every team include atleast one Finnish goalie in the draft from now on?

Well, i wasnt very serious. He could be in NHL next year, but who knows..

 

[Buffalo87]

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

He is showing some wear and tear but I definitly can't say I agree with you here.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Well, i wasnt very serious. He could be in NHL next year, but who knows..

I hope he won't be in the NHL next year. One or two more seasons in Finland and then he might be ready I think.

 

[Nich]

rask is nasty

but i would put lundqvist and miller over the other two.

 

[Large_Farva*]

He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.

Yeah because you know these things.

 

[Large_Farva*]

When each goalie is at its best the best are:

Lundqvist
Lehtonen
Miller
Toivonen

When each are at their worst the worst are:
Toivonen
Miller
Lehtonen/Lundqvist

 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.

2 deflection goals, 1 on top of the crease in which Rozival has to tie up Handzus' stick and 1 on a Gagne breakaway courtesy of Ozolinsh...please get a clue.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Also Birons winning percent is also 66% so looks like we are good in that column

Doesn't that actually reduce Miller's percieved value if a guy like Biron is winning at the same pace? BUFF is playing amazing this year, and they aren't counting on Miller to do it. Both the Rangers & Thrashers are counting on their starters to carry the load.

All I'm saying is that all 3 of the other guys play on teams where the back-up goaltender is SUBSTANTIALLY worse than the starter. I would also say that going into this year Weekes and Raycroft were about on PAR with Biron.

 

[Ola]

Doesn't that actually reduce Miller's percieved value if a guy like Biron is winning at the same pace? BUFF is playing amazing this year, and they aren't counting on Miller to do it. Both the Rangers & Thrashers are counting on their starters to carry the load.

All I'm saying is that all 3 of the other guys play on teams where the back-up goaltender is SUBSTANTIALLY worse than the starter. I would also say that going into this year Weekes and Raycroft were about on PAR with Biron.

Exactly, Weekes have 46% or something, compared to Lundqvists 55%. A big diffrence. Lundqvist also have allot of ties, only 10 losses.

This is a subject I don't even care to debate. I am happy with Lundqvists game. Let Buffalo have Miller and Flyers Nittymäki if they want to...

 

[BleedBruins]

No but since you wanna talk winpercentage, Miller's dominates the other three
Miller - 66%
Lundy - 55%
Lehtonen- 54%
Toivonen - 44%

Toivenen has been working on his shooting while out with teh ankle injury.....

Seriously, the bruins were terrible during those 20 games when he was playing.
Toivonen has a ways to go before he is a dominating goalie, but this stat does no ring true unless its paired with the avg goals each team scored in support.

I'm not that hung up on grading out each goalie above. Each team is in a good position to have all of these guys, but lets make the stats meaningful.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

And BTW, the correct winning %'s are:

Lundquist: 73.7%
Miller: 71.4%
Toivonen: 64.3%
Nittymaki: 58.6%

I took the number of points won, divided by the points available in the games where the goalie got the decision. It's not correct to count the games that Weekes got shelled against Lundquist as he's played in 10 games where he didn't get the decision.

Other goalies winning %:

Weekes: 52.4%
Biron: 72.0%
Thomas/Raycroft: 40.9%
Esche: 66.7%

 

[Kodiak]

He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

And you're basing that prediction on what, exactly? Lundqvist was average on Wednesday, but his D hung him out to dry. He's been great since the Olympics, but the team isn't playing well in front of him right now.

Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.

So basically, Niittymaki will be the best because he plays for the Flyers and you're a Flyers fan. Is that about right?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Will Leafs bring him over next season? I have heard a lot of good things about him. Hope what they say are true. Will every team include atleast one Finnish goalie in the draft from now on?

I hope so, because Niitty doesn't lose to other Finns. the more Finnish goalies the better.

 

[Complaining Customer]

So basically, Niittymaki will be the best because he plays for the Flyers and you're a Flyers fan. Is that about right?

As I'm pretty sure you'll say Lundqvist will be the best... Funny how biaised this thread is, I think I never had so much fun matching the comments with the locations/teams.

Oh by the way, I'm a thrashers fan and I think Lehtonen will be the best of all these young goalies.

As for the 4 that are asked about in this thread... No argument here made me change my opinion :

Right now :

Miller/Lundqvist
Niittymaki
Toivonen

Middle Term :

Miller
Toivonen
Lundqvist
Niittymaki

 

[FLYLine27*]

He sure wasn't on Wednesday. Starting to show a little wear and tear with this long season.

I think he'll fizzle out and be an average NHL goalie for the rest of a relatively short career.

Right now Miller is the best IMO and Niittymaki will have the best NHL career partly because he plays for a team that is consistently good.

Wait...Miller is the best? and Because of one average game by Lundqvist he is showing wear and tear? I think its the other way around.

Miller in March:
9GP - .884 Save % - 3.44 GAA
Lundqvist in March:
8GP - .913 Save % - 2.62 GAA