Proposal: Lundqvist (and Kreider?) to Canes/Avs

flyfysher

Registered User
Mar 21, 2012
6,555
5,191
Please show me where I said Newhook... Maybe you need your eyes checked. HL isn't going to cost that, NYR will buy him out and he will be a 5m cap hit, retaining 50% and trading if he waives a NTC would make more sense financially(4.25m). Why would we over ask for him, give your head a shake, look at the facts. NO he isnt a Vezina goalie anymore but he is still good and has played nearly as many playoff games as both of your goalies has played regular season games. Obnoxious is when people respond to post and make wild accusations.. NYR is desperate to dump him with as little cost as possible, no on is asking for a bucket full of picks and prospects.. But once again, Where did I say Newhook????

He was the subject of the ongoing discussion. Suffice it to say if I was wrong then I apologize. That said, this following statement of yours is obnoxious.

"There was a time when "Playoff performance" was a thing. Again, NOT saying he is still a hockey god or that anyone else needs him desperately but I am surprised at how snubbed he is."

What exactly makes you think the Avs fans don't value PO performance? That's pretty presumptuous. You know whose PO performance I was impressed with the last couple of seasons? It wasn't HL. I just don't see that adding HL to the Avs roster significantly improves their chances of winning the SC this season much less the fact that he's a very poor fit on our team. Now please go trade HL elsewhere so this pointless discussion will cease. The Avs don't want him.
 

RANGERS13ADL

Registered User
Jan 26, 2020
127
27
He was the subject of the ongoing discussion. Suffice it to say if I was wrong then I apologize. That said, this following statement of yours is obnoxious.

"There was a time when "Playoff performance" was a thing. Again, NOT saying he is still a hockey god or that anyone else needs him desperately but I am surprised at how snubbed he is."

What exactly makes you think the Avs fans don't value PO performance? That's pretty presumptuous. You know whose PO performance I was impressed with the last couple of seasons? It wasn't HL. I just don't see that adding HL to the Avs roster significantly improves their chances of winning the SC this season much less the fact that he's a very poor fit on our team. Now please go trade HL elsewhere so this pointless discussion will cease. The Avs don't want him.

He was never mentioned in the threads/replies I was posting to so I’ll accept your apology.

Have you seen HL’s playoff stats? Give it a look before commenting. Did they go deep the last time they made it? NO, that was after they failed in their window of opportunity. Then they dismantled for a rebuild over the next few years. Last time they made playoffs no one expected much. But the 3/4 year they went to conference and Stanley cup finals was their window.. Maybe look at actual numbers before you reply.

As for significant improvements to win a cup... what would you change about your D? Probably not much right? What about offence? 3rd line C? Still not significant. 2 inexperienced goalies... hmm maybe a veteran who is one of the best to play, kinda like Roy in his final years, would be a solid insurance plan given that grubuaer is suspect still. Question is, do you have cap space? YES! Why not take that insurance policy? It’s cheap. I mean the issue is HL may not waive the NTC but if average 28 year olds are your thing then so be it. It will only cost us 750k more to buy out and lose out on a mid draft pick.. He may even retire knowing we are putting the rookies ahead of him.. Just to be clear, HL won’t carry an average team far in playoffs but those cup contenders out there he would be just fine in the pipes. Rangers are a below average team. They are where they are because of D and penalties. But all our G have decent numbers.
 

Avaholic29

Registered User
Feb 5, 2014
3,894
3,834
He was never mentioned in the threads/replies I was posting to so I’ll accept your apology.

Have you seen HL’s playoff stats? Give it a look before commenting. Did they go deep the last time they made it? NO, that was after they failed in their window of opportunity. Then they dismantled for a rebuild over the next few years. Last time they made playoffs no one expected much. But the 3/4 year they went to conference and Stanley cup finals was their window.. Maybe look at actual numbers before you reply.

As for significant improvements to win a cup... what would you change about your D? Probably not much right? What about offence? 3rd line C? Still not significant. 2 inexperienced goalies... hmm maybe a veteran who is one of the best to play, kinda like Roy in his final years, would be a solid insurance plan given that grubuaer is suspect still. Question is, do you have cap space? YES! Why not take that insurance policy? It’s cheap. I mean the issue is HL may not waive the NTC but if average 28 year olds are your thing then so be it. It will only cost us 750k more to buy out and lose out on a mid draft pick.. He may even retire knowing we are putting the rookies ahead of him.. Just to be clear, HL won’t carry an average team far in playoffs but those cup contenders out there he would be just fine in the pipes. Rangers are a below average team. They are where they are because of D and penalties. But all our G have decent numbers.

Buddy I'm sorry but you won't convince anyone here that Lundqvist will help them in the playoffs.. he gets lit up regularly at this point I highly doubt he'd find a way to string together that kind of performance to help us win. I feel safer with grubauer and if he didn't work out I'd feel safer with francouz too
 

RANGERS13ADL

Registered User
Jan 26, 2020
127
27
Buddy I'm sorry but you won't convince anyone here that Lundqvist will help them in the playoffs.. he gets lit up regularly at this point I highly doubt he'd find a way to string together that kind of performance to help us win. I feel safer with grubauer and if he didn't work out I'd feel safer with francouz too


So Grubauer is .912 on a top team
And HL is .907 on an awful team

you really think that’s being lit up? I guess Roy was always being lit up too given his career save % is less that HL..

The funny part is, Francouz is actually the guy with the best stats but would you really bank 1 of your 4 years to win on a guy with 23 games played?
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,900
6,336
and Lundqvist has term and is not a pending UFA.
Which in this case is actually a negative, as Lundqvist is no longer 8.5 million goaltender and at 38 (in less than a month) is unlikely to get any better.

From a Rangers perspective he is cap, they would like to dump and you ask for a kings ransom from the receiving team. Way off.
 

Avaholic29

Registered User
Feb 5, 2014
3,894
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So Grubauer is .912 on a top team
And HL is .907 on an awful team

you really think that’s being lit up? I guess Roy was always being lit up too given his career save % is less that HL..

The funny part is, Francouz is actually the guy with the best stats but would you really bank 1 of your 4 years to win on a guy with 23 games played?

I watch a lot of Rangers as a shesterkin, panarin and Kreider fantasy owner. Henrik is over the hill. Same goes for a guy like Pekka Rinne. Grubauer has had his streaks for sure but based on eye test alone grubauer is athletically more capable than Henrik at this point in his career. Grubauer is also proven the last few years that he is a huge second half performer
 

flyfysher

Registered User
Mar 21, 2012
6,555
5,191
He was never mentioned in the threads/replies I was posting to so I’ll accept your apology.

Have you seen HL’s playoff stats? Give it a look before commenting. Did they go deep the last time they made it? NO, that was after they failed in their window of opportunity. Then they dismantled for a rebuild over the next few years. Last time they made playoffs no one expected much. But the 3/4 year they went to conference and Stanley cup finals was their window.. Maybe look at actual numbers before you reply.

As for significant improvements to win a cup... what would you change about your D? Probably not much right? What about offence? 3rd line C? Still not significant. 2 inexperienced goalies... hmm maybe a veteran who is one of the best to play, kinda like Roy in his final years, would be a solid insurance plan given that grubuaer is suspect still. Question is, do you have cap space? YES! Why not take that insurance policy? It’s cheap. I mean the issue is HL may not waive the NTC but if average 28 year olds are your thing then so be it. It will only cost us 750k more to buy out and lose out on a mid draft pick.. He may even retire knowing we are putting the rookies ahead of him.. Just to be clear, HL won’t carry an average team far in playoffs but those cup contenders out there he would be just fine in the pipes. Rangers are a below average team. They are where they are because of D and penalties. But all our G have decent numbers.

1. HL hasn't been in the POs for a couple of seasons so his PO stats aren't highly relevant. I also don't follow the Rangers and given that fact, I'm not comfortable saying let's grab HL. And I don't completely trust stats either.

2. HL doesn't fit the Avs because of his age and contract. Then the Avs would have to go through the headache of dumping his contract next season. He's too expensive to keep as a back-up even if Francouz leaves. I don't want the Avs to inherit the Rangers problem to solve.

3. For the SC run, the Avs would do far better IMO acquiring a defensive D-man than HL. Then a 3C. I have consistently advocated for that since December for the 3C and even earlier as to the defensive D-man. Some would then advocate for a 1W (not me. I definitely don't want Kreider as a rental). Not many Avs fans would advocate signing a G much less HL. I might have agreed earlier this season when Grubauer was injured but that isn't the case now.

I concede the Avs' netminder(s) could be injured and then they would be in trouble. That's life. If you're calling the Avs goalies inexperienced in the POs then I don't know what to say to you.

4. Most importantly, I'm happy with Grubauer and Francouz and regard HL as extra baggage that's not needed or to be honest, wanted.

5. I don't view HL as an insurance policy. More like a headache.

6. If the Avs are using their cap space then I'd rather they try and help other teams make a trade deal and acquire some extra picks in the process.

7. Given the above, I think it's a terrible move for the Avs to acquire HL. It'd be a great move for the Rangers though. HL has got value but not to the Avs.

While I don't mean to be rude, the G PO performance that I remember watching was 2014 when Quick beat the Rangers. No doubt HL was great. But what I distinctly recall of PO performance was watching Martinez beat HL to win the SC. HL didn't win the SC. That's the bottom line. That's why what you wrote was obnoxious. So you'd do well to ease up on the PO performance shtick bit and stop acting like you know better than us what's good for us.
 
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pld459666

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
25,877
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Danbury, CT
Hanks value to NYR fans is based on who he WAS, not who he is today.

I'd expect on reputation he gets a 2nd, on actual ability, you have to fight for a 3rd
 

Avelanche

#freeRedmond
Jun 11, 2011
6,965
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Boston
So Grubauer is .912 on a top team
And HL is .907 on an awful team

you really think that’s being lit up? I guess Roy was always being lit up too given his career save % is less that HL..

The funny part is, Francouz is actually the guy with the best stats but would you really bank 1 of your 4 years to win on a guy with 23 games played?
Grub would prob be closer to .920 if the avs have a good PK. Getting pkers is a bigger deal then a goalie.
 

The S5

Registered User
Jul 27, 2017
4,431
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He was the subject of the ongoing discussion. Suffice it to say if I was wrong then I apologize. That said, this following statement of yours is obnoxious.

"There was a time when "Playoff performance" was a thing. Again, NOT saying he is still a hockey god or that anyone else needs him desperately but I am surprised at how snubbed he is."

What exactly makes you think the Avs fans don't value PO performance? That's pretty presumptuous. You know whose PO performance I was impressed with the last couple of seasons? It wasn't HL. I just don't see that adding HL to the Avs roster significantly improves their chances of winning the SC this season much less the fact that he's a very poor fit on our team. Now please go trade HL elsewhere so this pointless discussion will cease. The Avs don't want him.

I don't think Hank makes sense for the Avs, but what I find funny is you getting on here and making a proclamation about what the Avs want and don't want. Are you Sakic's HF burner account? Instead, try "I don't want him". That would be more accurate.
 

Lonewolfe2015

Rom Com Male Lead
Sponsor
Dec 2, 2007
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The fact that youguys literally think Grubauer/Francouz/Mrazek/Reimer > Hank fascinates me.

Why are you trying to force this? Last year Gru was lights out in the playoffs. Sakic promised Franky a backup spot this year. To go out and trade either for Lundqivst and pay to do so is pointless for the Avs. They're both doing fine and expecting Henrik to do better and win the starting position just puts a lot of pressure on the chemistry of the team.
 

Patagonia

Keep Whining
Jan 6, 2017
7,624
3,246
I don't think Hank makes sense for the Avs, but what I find funny is you getting on here and making a proclamation about what the Avs want and don't want. Are you Sakic's HF burner account? Instead, try "I don't want him". That would be more accurate.

I think it’s fairly obvious HL with his age, contract and poor play is close or at negative value. Don’t know what’s so difficult to understand?

AVs goalie tandem are outperforming HL and their combined salaries is still less even with the 50% retention. Just don’t believe there is many teams interested. NYR fans should open the HL proposal across the league, it could be very disappointing.
 

charliemurphy

Registered User
Feb 16, 2004
2,432
718
Brooklyn, NY
I agree with this, but I do wonder why Avs fans don't value goaltending more. Not to knock who they have or the slightly better numbers than HL, and I'n no idiot as I know his career is at an end. However HL has played almost as many playoff games as Grubauer has played regular season games. There was a time when "Playoff performance" was a thing. Again, NOT saying he is still a hockey god or that anyone else needs him desperately but I am surprised at how snubbed he is. ****ty way to end an incredible career really, guess he was hoping for the Richter treatment..

I wouldn't consider Lundqvist being snubbed by whats happening right now. He's a bright guy. He understand whats happening in goal. Don't think for a second that Gorton wouldn't trade him to a contender if he says so. He's playing out his contract which is well within his rights. If you meant snubbed by fans on HFB... does that really mean anything? lol
Not sure the Richter treatment or whatever that means applies to Lundqvist. By the time he was forced to retire Richter had gone through multiple knee injuries, concussions and a fractured skull.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,900
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For HL it's a simple conversation... What do you want to do? chase a cup(if so waive the NTC).. Retire with class? or go the buyout route? Simple A/B/C option and call it a day.. Shesty/Georgiev will play next year regardless of the trade deadline results
Try out the buy out calculator for HL on CapFriendly. It is very unlikely he would be bought out this summer.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
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This is true.

Accept the last month or so, we've been almost 80's Oilers Firewagon hockey. Staal, ADA, and Hajek are liabilities this year, with Trouba and Skjei having occasional brain farts.

We are a transition/o-zone pressure team and below our hash marks has been fair game 3/4 of this season to this point. Only recently have the NYR D been falling back into a respectable formation.

Shestertik and Georgiev have the youth quickness to cover the post to post acrobat saves. Hank has developed a more conservative style since 2018/19 season which isn't productive with our current Defence core.
It never sounded like this, when ADA was discussed as a trade chip.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,799
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L has full NMC and is in total control, goes nowhere unless he wants to.
Part of this is not just club, but geographical.
Said he has a foundation, based NYC, likes it HERE.

So even IF IF IF we put every other aspect on a shelf and suspend disbelief, I don't think he even goes tri State. Philly prob too far. Beantown way too far. You are looking at maybe Debbies, and the Isles. That is more plausible if it is next season and an expiring contract. But not bal of this yr and all of next.

------
I'd like to earn some of the Canes picks, but they are not inclined to indulge with a rental, they are likely to invest or keep the pick and draft.

There is a consensus waiting to be defined w/finality at the last Canes-Rangers thread on what incarnation of
Skjei/+
and
Gauthier/1st/NY 2nd

is mutually desired.
That's where our energies best serve NYR, we need to repurpose Brady's salary cap
 

Kocur Dill

picklicious
Feb 7, 2010
3,093
1,595
It never sounded like this, when ADA was discussed as a trade chip.

His starts are heavy in the O-zone. It minimizes his defence minutes, and enhances his offence numbers.

That is why, in my opinion, I am hesitant to give him a top dollar contract if I'm NYR. He fills a role very well, but has a clear weakness in his overall game.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
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His starts are heavy in the O-zone. It minimizes his defence minutes, and enhances his offence numbers.

That is why, in my opinion, I am hesitant to give him a top dollar contract if I'm NYR. He fills a role very well, but has a clear weakness in his overall game.
I am not opposed to your opinion, at all. I just read through the NYR-Vegas thread and there ADA is worth more than Glass and Tuch combined (by some posters).
 
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GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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L has full NMC and is in total control, goes nowhere unless he wants to.
Part of this is not just club, but geographical.
Said he has a foundation, based NYC, likes it HERE.

So even IF IF IF we put every other aspect on a shelf and suspend disbelief, I don't think he even goes tri State. Philly prob too far. Beantown way too far. You are looking at maybe Debbies, and the Isles. That is more plausible if it is next season and an expiring contract. But not bal of this yr and all of next.

------
I'd like to earn some of the Canes picks, but they are not inclined to indulge with a rental, they are likely to invest or keep the pick and draft.

There is a consensus waiting to be defined w/finality at the last Canes-Rangers thread on what incarnation of
Skjei/+
and
Gauthier/1st/NY 2nd

is mutually desired.
That's where our energies best serve NYR, we need to repurpose Brady's salary cap

Canes would get a better D than Skjei if they were offering Gauthier + 1st + early 2nd. Pick one of Gauthier or a 1st and add a B prospect (Kuokkanen, Honka, Drury, Sellgren). With Jake Gardiner playing much better lately there isn't any need to pay multiple 1sts for a 2nd pairing LHD. Especially with Jake Bean needing his own opportunity next year.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,799
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Da Big Apple
Canes would get a better D than Skjei if they were offering Gauthier + 1st + early 2nd. Pick one of Gauthier or a 1st and add a B prospect (Kuokkanen, Honka, Drury, Sellgren). With Jake Gardiner playing much better lately there isn't any need to pay multiple 1sts for a 2nd pairing LHD. Especially with Jake Bean needing his own opportunity next year.

There was a consensus on something around Skjei/+.

I did not say he gets all 3 in the bold.
I said he gets some combo of that.
He gets less if it is just Skjei
and he gets more if a + is added to Skjei.

Either one of Gauthier or a 1st would be acceptable, I prefer the 1st.
 

Shootertooter

Registered User
Feb 20, 2016
3,676
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Buddy I'm sorry but you won't convince anyone here that Lundqvist will help them in the playoffs.. he gets lit up regularly at this point I highly doubt he'd find a way to string together that kind of performance to help us win. I feel safer with grubauer and if he didn't work out I'd feel safer with francouz too

Listen, let's be serious for a second. Hank is certainly getting older but getting "lit up" is more a product of having a porous defensive team that is among the leaders at giving up high danger chances. With solid defense, I think he could be very useful. On a bad team Hank is .907. With playoff defense....I'd expect that to rise significantly.
 
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Shootertooter

Registered User
Feb 20, 2016
3,676
1,487
There was a consensus on something around Skjei/+.

I did not say he gets all 3 in the bold.
I said he gets some combo of that.
He gets less if it is just Skjei
and he gets more if a + is added to Skjei.

Either one of Gauthier or a 1st would be acceptable, I prefer the 1st.

There is a consensus waiting to be defined w/finality at the last Canes-Rangers thread on what incarnation of
Skjei/+
and
Gauthier/1st/NY 2nd

Errr, ummmm.......you pretty much did say exactly that.........
BTW...a consensus is not 1 or 2 people saying maybe and 20 people saying no.
 

Avaholic29

Registered User
Feb 5, 2014
3,894
3,834
Listen, let's be serious for a second. Hank is certainly getting older but getting "lit up" is more a product of having a porous defensive team that is among the leaders at giving up high danger chances. With solid defense, I think he could be very useful. On a bad team Hank is .907. With playoff defense....I'd expect that to rise significantly.

He's just past that level of play. Ive watched numerous games where he's letting in very soft goals. Goals I wouldn't blame on a poor defense. In playoff tempo I don't see him holding up well, either way I'd rather the avs current tandem.
 

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