OT: Luke Schenn - What happened?

[New Liskeard]

I remember when Schenn was first drafted. A user here (I forget who) evaluated his talent for what it actually was at the time, rather than overwhelmingly considering his future potential. The users conclusion was that Schenn's realistic upside was that of Mike Komisarek. Looks like the fellow was right.

Yeah, there was also this yahoo who incessantly posted that MPS/MSP would be a star and the biggest mistake if the Leafs didn't take him. Also take a look at the reactions of Leaf posters when Kadri was drafted; its excellent entertainment. The draft experts here aren't as smart as you are giving them credit for.

 

[Anth93]

Yeah, there was also this yahoo who incessantly posted that MPS/MSP would be a star and the biggest mistake if the Leafs didn't take him. Also take a look at the reactions of Leaf posters when Kadri was drafted; its excellent entertainment. The draft experts here aren't as smart as you are giving them credit for.

Stuart Percy is another example.

Biggs was the star and Percy was the guy we took a huge and mostly unnecessary gamble on.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Thought he and Kaberle were exceptional for a period that extended to about half a season in 2010-11, maybe 2009-10.

He seemed to get worse with experience, doesn't help that he's become such a big guy.

Another way to put it is that Kaberle was a really good defender in 2009-10 and his game started to deteriorate sometime during 2010-11.

As in, Kaberle basically covered a lot of Schenn's faults until his game started to fall off.

But I do agree that Schenn's skating and mobility has somehow gotten even worse than it was (which was pretty bad).

 

[zeke]

Alzner is an excellent dman that the Leafs would be very lucky to have, heck he is what this team needs. You haven't watched him when making that comment. Cowen looked very good for a while before a recent set back; he could still be very good. Your comment on Alzner is a joke.

he's a solid second pair dman on a team not known for defense. nothing more. not something you want to spend a top five pick on.

 

[zeke]

actually, looking at alzner's possession stats more closely, even describing him as "solid" might be an exaggeration.

 

[Banic]

Stuart Percy is another example.

Biggs was the star and Percy was the guy we took a huge and mostly unnecessary gamble on.

Biggs was the star? I remember a lot of anger when we drafted Biggs tbh.

 

[New Liskeard]

he's a solid second pair dman on a team not known for defense. nothing more. not something you want to spend a top five pick on.

Alzner plays on the top line with Carlson. He is a top pairing D, even if he isn't a flashy skater and offensive minded.

 

[zeke]

Alzner plays on the top line with Carlson. He is a top pairing D, even if he isn't a flashy skater and offensive minded.

playing on the top pair doesn't make you a top pair dman.

alzner is comparable to a guy like gunnarsson, who also played on a top pair, and who also received second pair minutes.

 

[New Liskeard]

playing on the top pair doesn't make you a top pair dman.

alzner is comparable to a guy like gunnarsson, who also played on a top pair, and who also received second pair minutes.

You could have done yourself a favor and just said you don't know much about the player; your Gunnar comparison really gave it away. If you know anything about Alzner you would know he is much more physical player than Gunnar, and a leader. He has been captain for team Canada juniors, WHL player of the year, top defenceman of the year, and won big games. The Leafs would be lucky to have a player and leader like Alzner, to suggest he is Gunnar is a joke.

 

[zeke]

You could have done yourself a favor and just said you don't know much about the player; your Gunnar comparison really gave it away. If you know anything about Alzner you would know he is much more physical player than Gunnar, and a leader. He has been captain for team Canada juniors, WHL player of the year, top defenceman of the year, and won big games. The Leafs would be lucky to have a player and leader like Alzner, to suggest he is Gunnar is a joke.

you might want to take your own advice there, kiddo.

alzner is anything but physical. he is a big body who doesn't hit. he'd get crucified in toronto for being soft, in fact.

and being a captain in junior is less than meaningless.

 

[New Liskeard]

you might want to take your own advice there, kiddo.

alzner is anything but physical. he is a big body who doesn't hit. he'd get crucified in toronto for being soft, in fact.

and being a captain in junior is less than meaningless.

Ive followed this player for a while and he is physical. just like how Franson isn't physical, or is it that just hard hits count?

 

[zeke]

franson is far more physical than alzner.

 

[Menzinger]

The biggest lesson here is that we never overvalue physicality, particularly with Dmen. If you can't skate and\or move the puck, you likely aren't going to be a very effective player, even if you are a 'human eraser'.

Also Schenn should be a clear lesson to NEVER EVER draft a 'defensive Dman' with a top 15 pick.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Luke "I'm not JVR" Schenn

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

My favourite Pierre McGuire video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLKBo9M2Jz0

 

[Al14]

I think Schenn is a huge example of the failure of our Amatuer Scouting department.

I was at the draft when he was selected in 2008. I made fun of Ottawa fans that were so happy with getting Erik Karlsson at 15th overall! How'd that turn out? Where were our amatuer scouts? I know, a lot of people will say, but, 10 other teams pass over Karlsson too. I know he's not great defensively, but, he's really good offensively!

The only thing that redeemed the situation with Schenn, was getting JvR for him in that trade! We won the trade big time so far.

 

[zeke]

I think Schenn is a huge example of the failure of our Amatuer Scouting department.

I was at the draft when he was selected in 2008. I made fun of Ottawa fans that were so happy with getting Erik Karlsson at 15th overall! How'd that turn out? Where were our amatuer scouts? I know, a lot of people will say, but, 10 other teams pass over Karlsson too. I know he's not great defensively, but, he's really good offensively!

The only thing that redeemed the situation with Schenn, was getting JvR for him in that trade! We won the trade big time so far.

if you look at the history of the draft, you'll find that its almost universally true that:

a) physical dmen are overrated and picked too high
b) undersized skill dmen are underrated and picked too low

It's a bias that veteran hockey people have a very, very hard time getting past.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Many people think that the biggest reason why he failed is because he was rushed to the NHL at an early age...That may be true but his lack of foot speed is the biggest reason why he has failed to become a star.

 

[Razz]

Schenn just peaked early in his career. I don't think the Leafs ruined him. In fact I think he was ready as an 18 year old. The problem is, he never improved. That's on him, not on the Leafs.

He was a great pick at the time. The Leafs were smart and unloaded him when they knew he was not going to improve into a top pairing role.

The Leafs did good with this pick.

 

[mcleex]

Schenn who??? Sorry I was too busy watching JVR's soft hands in front of the net.
We dodged a ****ing bullet with that trade

 

[leafsrock67]

Who cares? We got JVR from him! That is a lot better than most players we could've gotten. the only better players are Eberle, Karlsson, Carlson, Allen imo

 

[ShaneFalco]

I just don't think he developed into what many thought he would be. It happens

 

[The Missing Piece]

This is Ben Smith. A 4th liner.

Was that at the end of a very long shift?

Just asking because when I played I was one of the fastest guys on the ice but after a minute your skating is like you have two amputated legs and an anvil attached to you.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I think Schenn is a huge example of the failure of our Amatuer Scouting department.

I was at the draft when he was selected in 2008. I made fun of Ottawa fans that were so happy with getting Erik Karlsson at 15th overall! How'd that turn out? Where were our amatuer scouts? I know, a lot of people will say, but, 10 other teams pass over Karlsson too. I know he's not great defensively, but, he's really good offensively!

The only thing that redeemed the situation with Schenn, was getting JvR for him in that trade! We won the trade big time so far.

I don't fully agree. Despite the list in a previous post, after the Fab Four, there was a gulf in talent.
No one from 5-10 in the range would be great player. Beach still hasn't played an NHL game, I don't consider Bailey or Wilson to be great. Instead of trading up, Cliff should've traded down, significantly down. Would've got another asset too. You can say all this in hindsight though.

 

[613Leafer]

Twice in the past ten years we've drafted a player in the 1st round, PRIMARILY due to their size. That's Schenn and Biggs. They're also the two biggest busts out of all of our 1st rounders over the past ten years (granted, Biggs is still fairly young, but isn't trending well).

Neither of them had elite skating, elite puck skills, or elite hockey IQ. If you're drafting in the 1st round... TARGET THOSE SKILLS!