Luke Glendening "shut down player" BS

[Winger98]

Glendening is tenth on the team in ESTOI/g. By any stretch I'm not a fan of overplaying Glendening, and he has been worse than last year, but by the numbers he's getting fourth line ice time.

 

[Frk It]

Glendening is tenth on the team in ESTOI/g. By any stretch I'm not a fan of overplaying Glendening, and he has been worse than last year, but by the numbers he's getting fourth line ice time.

But he's getting within 1 minute of Nyquist's ES IT and 30 seconds of Tatar.

Which he should not be.

 

[Actual Thought*]

The general direction of the team is going quite well besides these lame finishes the last few games.

Not really. The team is pretty bad and not truly improving. Sure Pav's individual play makes them look better but this team still has no more cohesion than it did in games 3 or 4.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

But he's getting within 1 minute of Nyquist's ES IT and 30 seconds of Tatar.

Which he should not be.

While not thrilled about how close, I think Blash is making an effort to spread minutes out a bit more something he did in GR quite a bit. Why? How many times have we said in the last several years the Wings look to have run out of gas. Blashill's teams generally have kicked from January in, he doesn't have the heavy dosage of minutes as often over the front half of seasons thus far as a professional coach, but he does seem to toy with that some over the back-half the season. I have hopes that is a smart long-term play even if some nights it is head scratching.

We will see what he does, he needs to get the pk and pp in order though and the Wings need to stop taking these infuriating penalties which has been a problem for several years now. It kills our ability to roll lines up front, which is something we should want to do with the depth we have.

 

[FissionFire]

Glendening is tenth on the team in ESTOI/g. By any stretch I'm not a fan of overplaying Glendening, and he has been worse than last year, but by the numbers he's getting fourth line ice time.

9th actually. Can't really count Franzen who is done likely forever. He real issue is that even at limited minutes it is too many. Just to show you how bad he is at possession and generating offense take a look at 5v5 shot attempt +/- for our forwards....

Pulkkinen +60 (team best)
Nyquist +48
Datsyuk +31
..... (Below is all the forwards in the negative)
Jurco -3
Abdelkader -3
Franzen -4
Sheahan -6
Andersson -10
Ferraro -49
Miller -83
Glendening -110!!

Full List

Remember this is 5v5 only. That's outright brutal. He's getting only 11:57 ES ice time but has allowed 282!!! shot attempts. That equates to almost 1 shot attempt against him every minute he's on the ice or basically 11-12 attempted shots against per game. Numbers like that should have him playing at most 6-8 ES minutes not the nearly 12 he is getting now. This list also tells me that no matter how bad Sheahan has looked giving him and his line 3-4 more ES minutes at the expense of Glendening and his line would be a huge positive for the team.

 

[Winger98]

But he's getting within 1 minute of Nyquist's ES IT and 30 seconds of Tatar.

Which he should not be.

Has Tatar played well enough to deserve a lot more IT? Nyquist has picked up his play, but Sheahan is in that same group IT wise, and he's been mediocre for the year. With injuries, and Sheahan not progressing, I'm not sure how far we can expect Glendening's IT to fall below the third line level.

9th actually. Can't really count Franzen who is done likely forever. He real issue is that even at limited minutes it is too many. Just to show you how bad he is at possession and generating offense take a look at 5v5 shot attempt +/- for our forwards....

Pulkkinen +60 (team best)
Nyquist +48
Datsyuk +31
..... (Below is all the forwards in the negative)
Jurco -3
Abdelkader -3
Franzen -4
Sheahan -6
Andersson -10
Ferraro -49
Miller -83
Glendening -110!!

Full List

Remember this is 5v5 only. That's outright brutal. He's getting only 11:57 ES ice time but has allowed 282!!! shot attempts. That equates to almost 1 shot attempt against him every minute he's on the ice or basically 11-12 attempted shots against per game. Numbers like that should have him playing at most 6-8 ES minutes not the nearly 12 he is getting now. This list also tells me that no matter how bad Sheahan has looked giving him and his line 3-4 more ES minutes at the expense of Glendening and his line would be a huge positive for the team.

I think it reflects how we haven't used the fourth line well this year. The IT in and of itself isn't necessarily the concern, but who we have tried matching them up against and being happy that they just didn't get scored on. Everyone could see the other team dominated most of their shifts against the Glendening line, holding the puck in the OS zone and applying pressure, but as long as that line broke even, we were willing to try to take/find the opposite matchup with our top line believing we could win that battle more often than not.

I think we've seen that shift lately, and now I'm looking forward to the personnel changing a bit with Miller hopefully sitting at some point. I think if you want Sheahan to play more minutes, he's got to play better, though. Or be moved to wing and someone else (Larkin, Richards) take that center spot.

 

[Frk It]

Has Tatar played well enough to deserve a lot more IT? Nyquist has picked up his play, but Sheahan is in that same group IT wise, and he's been mediocre for the year. With injuries, and Sheahan not progressing, I'm not sure how far we can expect Glendening's IT to fall below the third line level.

All due respect, those are some lame excuses to try and justify Nyquist and Tatar being underutilized.

I'll keep beating this drum, but Tatar's production is damn good for a guy who can't even get 15 minutes of ice a game.

Not sure how we can expect Glendening to fall below third line level minutes? Why the hell not? I mean, how about cause he's just not that good of a hockey player. It's not rocket science. He's a 10-12 minute a night energy player.

 

[Winger98]

All due respect, those are some lame excuses to try and justify Nyquist and Tatar being underutilized.

I'll keep beating this drum, but Tatar's production is damn good for a guy who can't even get 15 minutes of ice a game.

Not sure how we can expect Glendening to fall below third line level minutes? Why the hell not? I mean, how about cause he's just not that good of a hockey player. It's not rocket science. He's a 10-12 minute a night energy player.

If you want his total IT to fall that low, then we need better ES play from Sheahan, or the lines need to be juggled quite a bit more. But do you want to take Larkin off Z's wing? And Richards has easily looked his best on Datsyuk's wing. So...who plays 3c? Well, Sheahan, except he's been poor this year. So, again, I don't see how Glendening's IT can be expected to fall much considering the 3C spot is a bit of a blackhole.

I'm not against shuffling the lines (well, other than moving Larkin, I think Z needs that sort of skater next to him at this point), but I think our best bet is making a better fourth line. If that results in Nyquist/Tatar being pushed up the lineup, great. But that third line has to be fixed for our fourth line to get fewer minutes. Since I doubt that happens, unless Sheahan suddenly starts playing better, at least make the fourth line better to handle the minutes thrown at it.

 

[Martinez]

Don't hate on glendening, hate on the guy who uses him the way he has

 

[Frk It]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...gs_need_fourth.html#incart_river_mobile_index

^^^ this logic is so stupid. We should not be waiting for this line to return to being a "shutdown line", we should be acknowledging that they are not one and stop playing it as such.

C'mon Blashill, put people in a position to succeed.

 

[Frk It]

Don't hate on glendening, hate on the guy who uses him the way he has

Obviously Glendening can't change his own usage, so this is what everyone is implying.

 

[steafo]

9th actually. Can't really count Franzen who is done likely forever. He real issue is that even at limited minutes it is too many. Just to show you how bad he is at possession and generating offense take a look at 5v5 shot attempt +/- for our forwards....

Pulkkinen +60 (team best)
Nyquist +48
Datsyuk +31
..... (Below is all the forwards in the negative)
Jurco -3
Abdelkader -3
Franzen -4
Sheahan -6
Andersson -10
Ferraro -49
Miller -83
Glendening -110!!

Full List

Remember this is 5v5 only. That's outright brutal. He's getting only 11:57 ES ice time but has allowed 282!!! shot attempts. That equates to almost 1 shot attempt against him every minute he's on the ice or basically 11-12 attempted shots against per game. Numbers like that should have him playing at most 6-8 ES minutes not the nearly 12 he is getting now. This list also tells me that no matter how bad Sheahan has looked giving him and his line 3-4 more ES minutes at the expense of Glendening and his line would be a huge positive for the team.

Thank you for pointing that out that is a telling stat as far as I'm concerned. Especially on the defensemen side of things. It just shows what a dumpster fire our breakout passing has been all season.

Look at AA @ a +23 in 6 games played with limited ice time at that....why is he not up???? Marchenko's statline looks solid as well, I think because he doesn't panic and just makes a simple play. A lot of what we do wrong is complicate things within our own zone. The Glendening differential is god awful though.

Something to think about though is our team historically does not "Throw pucks on net" so the negatives can be skewed a little unfairly. It might also show that we should start throwing more pucks at the net instead of trying to be a possession team when I think it's pretty clear we are no longer that throughout most of our lineup anymore.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Not really. The team is pretty bad and not truly improving. Sure Pav's individual play makes them look better but this team still has no more cohesion than it did in games 3 or 4.

they are much better at defending in the neutral zone, breaking out of their own zone and than they were in games 3 and 4. same with dzone coverage. they are able to maintain ozone pressure better or at least retrieve the puck back if they can't.

they were lucky to be 0.500 or something like that after the first 15 games or so, when they looked worse than what the wings have looked since forever. since then, they have played pretty well.

 

[HIFE]

It is unlikely to happen and I am not sure he is there defensively though I have always thought he is underrated in that regard, but I would like to see Jurco when he is back take Miller's spot. Miller is where the offense goes to die and the cycle has been killed. Miller's ability to A-frame the wall and somehow keep the puck with just one hand on his stick has been non-existent this year. He is the weak link in my opinion and the reason they are almost always stuck in their zone.

While they were never a great zone time line, I have a lot more faith in Jurco and Helm keeping the puck down low and establishing the cycle and a crash the net mentality out of that line. I know I am harder on Miller than most, I just see him as utterly replaceable, what he brings to the PK is not enough for me as our PK has been mediocre by seasons end throughout his entire tenure. I want to see the lineup without him for a little bit and see what it does for us at even strength where quite frankly he is the worst player on the team in my opinion.

It pains me to say because I have this soft spot in my heart for Miller but absolutely agree TZE he has become completely irrelevant. He is the weak link on that 4th line. I wouldn't be surprised if he scores 0 goals this season. At 31 years of age the Wings must move past him and give the spot to any one of our many hopeful prospects.

I agree with the majority that feel Glendening and the 4th line is being used too much, with or without Miller. 10 minutes and under would be sufficient. Blashill originally said he wanted to spread out the ice time and then soon after said he had to reconsider the idea, but I don't think much has changed. Last 5 games the 4th line has been between 11.5 and 14.5 minutes- lower but still pretty consistent TOI and too much for my liking.

 

[FissionFire]

What makes taking Miller out of the lineup so hard is that he is a primary PKer for us, and our PK has been excellent the past month and really all season. How do you justify sitting a top PKer when your PK is bordering on NHL best?

Of course the smartass in me isn't surprised at the PKs success since Glendening, Miller, Ericsson, etc get plenty of practice at is since all their ES shifts are basically a PK already.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

What makes taking Miller out of the lineup so hard is that he is a primary PKer for us, and our PK has been excellent the past month and really all season. How do you justify sitting a top PKer when your PK is bordering on NHL best?

Of course the smartass in me isn't surprised at the PKs success since Glendening, Miller, Ericsson, etc get plenty of practice at is since all their ES shifts are basically a PK already.

Being a solid PKer is a great asset, but when you are a negative everywhere else on the ice its not nearly worth it. Miller has always been a pretty solid 4th liner, not great but okay. Now he's just bad.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Don't hate on glendening, hate on the guy who uses him the way he has

That guy can do no wrong. So many are so invested in "Blashill's fresh voice is better than Babcock" that to criticize Blashill is off limits despite his obvious short comings.

 

[Actual Thought*]

they are much better at defending in the neutral zone, breaking out of their own zone and than they were in games 3 and 4. same with dzone coverage. they are able to maintain ozone pressure better or at least retrieve the puck back if they can't.

they were lucky to be 0.500 or something like that after the first 15 games or so, when they looked worse than what the wings have looked since forever. since then, they have played pretty well.

I haven't seen the improvement you are describing.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

That guy can do no wrong. So many are so invested in "Blashill's fresh voice is better than Babcock" that to criticize Blashill is off limits despite his obvious short comings.

I don't know what fairytale you are living in but Blashill takes plenty of criticism around here all the time.

Can't wait to see this team make a run here soon. I'm sure it will be real quiet on your end

 

[Frk It]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/12/2/9830650/the-glendending-draws-near

 

[TheOtherOne]

That guy can do no wrong. So many are so invested in "Blashill's fresh voice is better than Babcock" that to criticize Blashill is off limits despite his obvious short comings.

Oh hi, you must be new here. Welcome!

 

[korrowan]

I think they should bring AA up and have him and Larkin on PK since Larkin isn't getting PP time now. Sheahan, Helm and then AA, Larkin. Glendenning is pretty much useless and has been besides agitating guys at times.

 

[Flowah]

Has Tatar played well enough to deserve a lot more IT? Nyquist has picked up his play, but Sheahan is in that same group IT wise, and he's been mediocre for the year. With injuries, and Sheahan not progressing, I'm not sure how far we can expect Glendening's IT to fall below the third line level.

Certainly has the past few games. Especially last game that Sheahan line was on fire and they were *all* contributing to that.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/12/2/9830650/the-glendending-draws-near

Just read it. Seems like every single number shows that the 4th line's luck these past couple years is about to end.

 

[Winger98]

Certainly has the past few games. Especially last game that Sheahan line was on fire and they were *all* contributing to that.

Bickell progressed at the right time and got $4m a year for it. I figured Tatar and Nyquist would get going and finish with 25-30 goals on the year, but I'm not sold on Sheahan ever being much more than he is, though what he is should at least be a decent third line center. Which we need right now.

 

[Frk It]

Just read it. Seems like every single number shows that the 4th line's luck these past couple years is about to end.

Yeah. Which is concerning when you hear that Blash is waiting for them to return to being a shutdown line. When he should be acknowledging that they aren't one and moving on.