Proposal: Lucic to Arizona

[DFF]

That's not really the choice though, if it was 1 for 1 most people would happily take Dvorak.
The trade would be Dvorak for Lucic + multiple top picks/prospects, that's where I'd rather keep Lucic.

true , I am just laughing at the comments that make it look like Lucic is the better player

Dvorak is not worth a lottery pick, but I wouldn’t mind a 2nd or less, especially if I can get rid of Lucic contract

 

[Double Dion]

When you draft late in the first, a Dvorak is who you hope to get as a player, but it's a gamble. He's a sure thing and worth more than a gamble.

You don't get the ELC years. Dvorak has never hit 20 goals or 40 points and makes 4.5M. A late first is more than sufficient for a guy like that.

 

[mouser]

Of the cap hit. My understanding is they have to pay the retained cap hit amount. At least that was what they were saying a couple of months or so ago. It was why they thought there was a slim chance Seattle would claim him as he'd help them get to that cap floor. Of course Giordano serves the same function while being a top pairing defenseman so they went that route.

When teams Retain Salary in a trade they take on an identical % of the remaining Cap Hits and Salary+Bonuses.

So Edmonton is retaining 12.5% of Lucic’s cap hit and 12.5% of the remaining Salary+Signing Bonuses on the contract.

 

[Kai Yo T]

You don't get the ELC years. Dvorak has never hit 20 goals or 40 points and makes 4.5M. A late first is more than sufficient for a guy like that.

You don't get a developed & established NHL player under an ELC. Growing pains. If you overlook everything else Dvorak does well (51.5% career FO, solid two-way play, etc.) He'd be worth only a late first. But there's much more to the player than that.

Besides, this last season was shortened to 56 games and he had 17 goals and 31 points. That's 3 goals and 9 points shy of your specifications. Where do you think his totals would've been if he had 26 more games to play?

Not to mention he has improved every year, on the Coyotes, coached by Rick Tocchet. And his contract at a $4,450,000 cap hit until 2025 is a bargain.

I understand if the player/price isn't right for Calgary, but he's worth more than a late first.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Oops! Duplicate.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I propose Calgary trades Lucic, and a 2nd and a 3rd.
Arizona Trades Christian Dvorak.

thoughts? Does Calgary add more?

A 2nd and 3rd might get you Dvorak. He is a pretty good player.


Lucic, 1st and 4th for FCS. Lucic is still owed 9mill is salary over the next 2 seasons

 

[Jumptheshark]

I do not see any team giving anything good up to take Lucic

 

[Kahvi]

Lucic is a useful but overpaid bottom-6 player for the Flames and fills a certain role, but he's also a cap dump from every other teams perspective. Flames are not gonna give anything that has actual value to dump him and no team is gonna trade for him. Simple as that, there just is no trade to be agreed here.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

If Calgary is looking to cut a bit of Lucic's salary, I'd be open to something around Johnsson for Lucic. Flames add some offensive punch and speedy tenacity, and the Devils trade a relatively redundant skillset for a much-needed bodyguard.

 

[McJedi]

I propose Calgary trades Lucic, and a 2nd and a 3rd.
Arizona Trades Christian Dvorak.

thoughts? Does Calgary add more?

Hahahahaha.

 

[Double Dion]

You don't get a developed & established NHL player under an ELC. Growing pains. If you overlook everything else Dvorak does well (51.5% career FO, solid two-way play, etc.) He'd be worth only a late first. But there's much more to the player than that.

Besides, this last season was shortened to 56 games and he had 17 goals and 31 points. That's 3 goals and 9 points shy of your specifications. Where do you think his totals would've been if he had 26 more games to play?

Not to mention he has improved every year, on the Coyotes, coached by Rick Tocchet. And his contract at a $4,450,000 cap hit until 2025 is a bargain.

I understand if the player/price isn't right for Calgary, but he's worth more than a late first.

The comparable I'm using is Buchnevich who is a better player than Dvorak in all regards. He went for a 2nd and 4th line forward. 4.5 is pretty steep for a guy who hasn't hit 40 points before. I get he would have this season if it wasn't a covid one. I even like the player. Just saying the cap hit is a bit high for the production. A late 1st is really the most I see anyone paying for a player who will be 26 this year. Yes, you do get players who are more productive on ELCs. Even in Calgary without top picks we have had players more productive on ELCs.

 

[blankall]

Lol as a Flames fan, I’d take Dvorak over Lucic any day. It’s not even close.

I like Lucic but he is expendable.

Dvorak is clearly better than Lucic. However, Lucic plus a major future asset for Dvorak doesn't make any sense for the Flames. The Flames are not desperate to get rid of Lucic. He plays a valuable role on the team, just overpaid.

 

[DFF]

Dvorak is clearly better than Lucic. However, Lucic plus a major future asset for Dvorak doesn't make any sense for the Flames. The Flames are not desperate to get rid of Lucic. He plays a valuable role on the team, just overpaid.

yeah definitely no 1st, I’d think about it if it’s a 2nd but I doubt Arizona would do that

 

[Kai Yo T]

The comparable I'm using is Buchnevich who is a better player than Dvorak in all regards. He went for a 2nd and 4th line forward. 4.5 is pretty steep for a guy who hasn't hit 40 points before. I get he would have this season if it wasn't a covid one. I even like the player. Just saying the cap hit is a bit high for the production. A late 1st is really the most I see anyone paying for a player who will be 26 this year. Yes, you do get players who are more productive on ELCs. Even in Calgary without top picks we have had players more productive on ELCs.

Dvorak is a center, Buch is a winger. I'd expect Dvorak to score a lot more if he played with the Rangers last season too.

The common opinion is that Chris Drury got hosed on that trade. It's certainly not the standard for all future trades. I won't debate how much more he's worth, but a late 1st isn't quite enough, especially if you're not shopping him but teams are calling.

Rumor is that's the case and our GM has told teams the price is a 1st +. I forget the exact ask, but I thought it was way too high for Dvorak. My perceived value is considerably less than our GM. Again, that's the price of you call on him. We aren't approaching anyone with Dvorak from what I hear.

 

[Painful Quandary]

A 2nd and 3rd might get you Dvorak. He is a pretty good player.

The ask from the Coyotes is much higher than that, like a 1st and a prospect higher. Craig Morgan reported that is the asking price from the organization. The Coyotes are fine with hanging on to him if the price is too rich.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Oops! Again lol

 

[Kai Yo T]

Oops!

 

[Kai Yo T]

The ask from the Coyotes is much higher than that, like a 1st and a prospect higher. Craig Morgan reported that is the asking price from the organization. The Coyotes are fine with hanging on to him if the price is too rich.

I think the ask shows our GM isn't really interested in moving him unless it'd be stupid to say no. His ask is too much IMO, but he's being undervalued here too.

 

[Painful Quandary]

I think the ask shows our GM isn't really interested in moving him unless it'd be stupid to say no. His ask is too much IMO, but he's being undervalued here too.

Agreed. He is a good player on a good contract. His age also fits into the rebuild. I also think he is good for insulating youth considering the center depth and how there are always injuries.

 

[Ainsy01]

I propose Calgary trades Lucic, and a 2nd and a 3rd.
Arizona Trades Christian Dvorak.

thoughts? Does Calgary add more?

The second is hand cuffed to Lucic for anyone to take the contract.

Dvorak is worth alot more than a third. Would have to be a good prospect as well, or a first.

 

[Barnaby]

The comparable I'm using is Buchnevich who is a better player than Dvorak in all regards. He went for a 2nd and 4th line forward. 4.5 is pretty steep for a guy who hasn't hit 40 points before. I get he would have this season if it wasn't a covid one. I even like the player. Just saying the cap hit is a bit high for the production. A late 1st is really the most I see anyone paying for a player who will be 26 this year. Yes, you do get players who are more productive on ELCs. Even in Calgary without top picks we have had players more productive on ELCs.

I think AZ could potentially get a late 1st and a B prospect for Dvorak. That’s what I’d be looking for in their shoes. I like Buchnevich as a comparable but the situations were a little different (NYR wanted to shed cap). I also think they valued Blais more than we might think as they were trying to change the culture of the team. I think Buch was clearly worth a late 1st.

 

[Double Dion]

Dvorak is a center, Buch is a winger. I'd expect Dvorak to score a lot more if he played with the Rangers last season too.

The common opinion is that Chris Drury got hosed on that trade. It's certainly not the standard for all future trades. I won't debate how much more he's worth, but a late 1st isn't quite enough, especially if you're not shopping him but teams are calling.

Rumor is that's the case and our GM has told teams the price is a 1st +. I forget the exact ask, but I thought it was way too high for Dvorak. My perceived value is considerably less than our GM. Again, that's the price of you call on him. We aren't approaching anyone with Dvorak from what I hear.

I don't think the Rags got hosed. Reality is trading cap without taking any back lowers the return. As an example Toffoli signed for 4.3M and cost no assets to acquire. You forego signing a good middle 6 player to add Dvorak. Why wouldn't someone sign a player rather than trading for one if it's going to cost more than a late 1st?

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think AZ could potentially get a late 1st and a B prospect for Dvorak. That’s what I’d be looking for in their shoes. I like Buchnevich as a comparable but the situations were a little different (NYR wanted to shed cap). I also think they valued Blais more than we might think as they were trying to change the culture of the team. I think Buch was clearly worth a late 1st.

A late 1st + B prospect is about where I value him. Maybe a middle 1st straight up.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I don't think the Rags got hosed. Reality is trading cap without taking any back lowers the return. As an example Toffoli signed for 4.3M and cost no assets to acquire. You forego signing a good middle 6 player to add Dvorak. Why wouldn't someone sign a player rather than trading for one if it's going to cost more than a late 1st?

That's not what the OP is going for here though. He specifically made an offer for Dvorak.

Based on what you're saying, if I understand you correctly, you're admitting that not taking back cap lowers the return, but then using that same lowered return as a comparable to Dvorak's worth? Without the same influence applied? Were not taking a discount to clear cap here.

We disagree, thats cool. Always appreciate a friendly debate!

 

[Jumptheshark]

The ask from the Coyotes is much higher than that, like a 1st and a prospect higher. Craig Morgan reported that is the asking price from the organization. The Coyotes are fine with hanging on to him if the price is too rich.

That is why I said might and that Dvorak is a good player.

The offer of Lucic and picks for him is funny