Speculation: Lucic interested in Vancouver

[y2kcanucks]

That lineup looks relatively deep.

Sedin, Sedin, Lucic and Eriksson are 100% top 6 forwards. Hansen is top 6 complementary, Horvat put up 40 last year with **** deployment ,and Baertschi definitely was one of our better forwards last season. If that is the lineup, it comes down to Willie's deployment and line matching for success.

I'd prefer Ladd + Eriksson over Lucic + Eriksson but I doubt Ladd will sign here.

On a side note, I really hope Virtanen can be tried on the LW. I like his game there.

I don't want Ladd, Eriksson, or Lucic here. Or Brouwer for that matter. All 4 of those guys are likely to be overpaid for too much term. It disgusts me that a team that desperately needs to rebuild is looking at players that old who will be that overpaid.

You're overrating what the Sedins, Lucic, and Eriksson can do.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Define "bad". That defence is pretty respectable.

Edler - Tanev have proved to be very good shutdown defenceman, all thanks to Tanev.

Hutton - Gudbranson has yet to show anything together, but based on what they have accomplished so far, in theory and on paper, this looks like a good fit. A mobile, offensive defenceman paired with a stay-at-home physical defenceman?

And we finally have a bottom pairing, likely 15 minutes a night, from Hammer - Tryamkin. From what I've seen in Tryamkin, he's definitely a solid option at 6th. He can read plays well and having a veteran next to him should ease the transition even better. Wouldn't be surprised if he jumps into the top 4 at seasons end.

I think you need to temper your expectations. Who do you exactly expect to have play D on the 5th and 6th spots? Yandle?

Top pairing is OK. You're right, it's more of a shutdown pairing.

Hutton-Gudbranson pairing doesn't appeal to me at all. Again, neither defensemen have shown to be any good at maintaining possession of the puck. I expect, unless they're on the ice with solid puck possessing forwards like the Sedins, that this pairing will spend most of its time in the defensive zone. You're falling into the Benning trap where you think an OFD-DFD is a good pairing no matter what.

I like Tryamkin, and being paired with Hamhuis isn't bad. But overall looking at that defense there's no offense coming from it. Overall it's not a good defense.

I don't have to temper my expectations at all. I expect this to be a bad defense, because it is. This was the third worst team in the NHL last season, and was one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Worst at providing offense, and bottom 5 in terms of GA. Adding Gudbranson and a full season of Tryamkin isn't going to suddenly improve this defense. In fact, on paper it's even worse when you consider it's more likely to be Sbisa on the bottom pair with Tryamkin instead of Hamhuis.

 

[Soups On]

I don't want Ladd, Eriksson, or Lucic here. Or Brouwer for that matter. All 4 of those guys are likely to be overpaid for too much term. It disgusts me that a team that desperately needs to rebuild is looking at players that old who will be that overpaid.

You're overrating what the Sedins, Lucic, and Eriksson can do.

Hey, I don't want that either but Benning is gonna Benning, just gotta live with it.

How am I overrating what those guys can do? Are you suggesting those four are not bonafide top 6 forwards? The addition of two top 6 forwards has a trickle down effect and allows for better matchups.

Sedin Sedin Hansen
Lucic Horvat Eriksson

That's a legit top 6. You're underrating what those guys can do.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Hey, I don't want that either but Benning is gonna Benning, just gotta live with it.

How am I overrating what those guys can do? Are you suggesting those four are not bonafide top 6 forwards? The addition of two top 6 forwards has a trickle down effect and allows for better matchups.

Sedin Sedin Hansen
Lucic Horvat Eriksson

That's a legit top 6. You're underrating what those guys can do.

I'm suggesting this won't be enough to improve the league's worst offense and turn the 3rd worst team in the NHL into a playoff team. Lucic has averaged 18g/82gp over the past few years while playing with top line talent and being given 1st line minutes. Eriksson's career was trending downward until last year when his offense spiked again. What happens if he reverts back to a simple 20 goal 40-50 point player?

 

[LeftCoast]

I'd prefer Okposo. Neither Daniel or Looch is likely to play RW, and I doubt Lucic signs here to play on the 2nd line for a couple of years. Okposo is a better fit overall and is younger, but he is probably looking to remain in the US East / Central.

 

[604]

Just offer Stamkos 7 × $10m rather than getting anybody else.

Build a helicopter line around Stamkos.

 

[vancityluongo]

I highly doubt Lucic is the only piece. Eriksson signing is more likely:

Sedin - Sedin - Eriksson
Lucic - Horvat - Virtanen
Baertschi - Sutter - Hansen
Etem - Granlund - Dorsett

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Gudbranson
Hamhuis - Tryamkin

Miller
Markstrom

It's not cup contender, but a playoff appearance is very likely with this. On paper, we're deeper than 2014, which is a huge plus. We're also not factoring camp surprises like Tkachuk or Dubois, who are very close to the NHL.

Certainly entertaining to watch.

Minus Hamhuis and adding Sbisa, this is probably what Jim Benning's whiteboard looks like. Minor difference in that he probably has Lucic-Sutter-Hansen and Baertschi-Horvat-Dorsett as the middle-6 lines.

That team would make the playoffs next season, fighting with Minnesota for the top wildcard seed or squeezing in as the 3rd Pacific seed. How about the season after that? Can you reasonably expect Bo Horvat and Sven Baertschi to take enough of a leap forward offensively to cover for the likely combined 50 points taken off the Sedins totals?

That would also not be a fun team to cheer for. I want to cheer for exciting young players like Panarin, Gaudreau or Kuznetsov. Not a team with has-been thugs like Lucic and never-was thugs like Dorsett.

 

[Huggy]

Top pairing is OK. You're right, it's more of a shutdown pairing.

Hutton-Gudbranson pairing doesn't appeal to me at all. Again, neither defensemen have shown to be any good at maintaining possession of the puck. I expect, unless they're on the ice with solid puck possessing forwards like the Sedins, that this pairing will spend most of its time in the defensive zone. You're falling into the Benning trap where you think an OFD-DFD is a good pairing no matter what.

I like Tryamkin, and being paired with Hamhuis isn't bad. But overall looking at that defense there's no offense coming from it. Overall it's not a good defense.

I don't have to temper my expectations at all. I expect this to be a bad defense, because it is. This was the third worst team in the NHL last season, and was one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Worst at providing offense, and bottom 5 in terms of GA. Adding Gudbranson and a full season of Tryamkin isn't going to suddenly improve this defense. In fact, on paper it's even worse when you consider it's more likely to be Sbisa on the bottom pair with Tryamkin instead of Hamhuis.

Would take Hutton Guddy over hutton Demers 100/100

And hamhuis Tryamkin is steller 3rd pairing if we look at Sbisa and Bartkowski/Weber last year

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm suggesting this won't be enough to improve the league's worst offense and turn the 3rd worst team in the NHL into a playoff team. Lucic has averaged 18g/82gp over the past few years while playing with top line talent and being given 1st line minutes. Eriksson's career was trending downward until last year when his offense spiked again. What happens if he reverts back to a simple 20 goal 40-50 point player?

That's still top6 forward production...?

Adding Lucic and Eriksson localizes issues to the defense. It's far from a contender, but a playoff team is possible. A bubble team... and that's all they want so...

 

[luongo321]

Come home, MILAN!

 

[y2kcanucks]

That's still top6 forward production...?

Adding Lucic and Eriksson localizes issues to the defense. It's far from a contender, but a playoff team is possible. A bubble team... and that's all they want so...

A bubble team that likely misses. Again, that's not enough to turn the league's worst offense into an offense that's good enough to make the playoffs, especially with how poor our defense has been. And now the team is the most expensive team in the league, how are they going to address that defense?

Not to mention, goaltending is shaky with Miller.

And that's completely ignoring next season when Demko is our only goalie under contract, and we have potentially big raises for Horvat and Hutton.

 

[fancouver]

Top pairing is OK. You're right, it's more of a shutdown pairing.

Hutton-Gudbranson pairing doesn't appeal to me at all. Again, neither defensemen have shown to be any good at maintaining possession of the puck. I expect, unless they're on the ice with solid puck possessing forwards like the Sedins, that this pairing will spend most of its time in the defensive zone. You're falling into the Benning trap where you think an OFD-DFD is a good pairing no matter what.

I like Tryamkin, and being paired with Hamhuis isn't bad. But overall looking at that defense there's no offense coming from it. Overall it's not a good defense.

I don't have to temper my expectations at all. I expect this to be a bad defense, because it is. This was the third worst team in the NHL last season, and was one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Worst at providing offense, and bottom 5 in terms of GA. Adding Gudbranson and a full season of Tryamkin isn't going to suddenly improve this defense. In fact, on paper it's even worse when you consider it's more likely to be Sbisa on the bottom pair with Tryamkin instead of Hamhuis.

And there's such a thing called "progression", which is what I expect Hutton and Tryamkin to do. They will take the next step in their development. Canucks won't be 3rd worst forever. Hutton hit 25 points in his rookie campaign. That is very impressive for a rookie D. He has plenty of potential.

Besides, offense coming from the D is being overrated here. The problem is the forwards aren't scoring. D always have higher assists totals than goal totals. And that's because the forwards finish. On the Canucks, there is no finish, that's why a guy like Eriksson will be very helpful.

Minus Hamhuis and adding Sbisa, this is probably what Jim Benning's whiteboard looks like. Minor difference in that he probably has Lucic-Sutter-Hansen and Baertschi-Horvat-Dorsett as the middle-6 lines.

That team would make the playoffs next season, fighting with Minnesota for the top wildcard seed or squeezing in as the 3rd Pacific seed. How about the season after that? Can you reasonably expect Bo Horvat and Sven Baertschi to take enough of a leap forward offensively to cover for the likely combined 50 points taken off the Sedins totals?

That would also not be a fun team to cheer for. I want to cheer for exciting young players like Panarin, Gaudreau or Kuznetsov. Not a team with has-been thugs like Lucic and never-was thugs like Dorsett.

I disagree, my mock line-up would be very fun to cheer for. You don't have to cheer for Dorsett if you don't want to. Our Panarin, Guadreau or Kuznetsov will be Horvat, Virtanen, Baertschi, Boeser, Demko, and either Tkachuk or Dubois.

 

[y2kcanucks]

And there's such a thing called "progression", which is what I expect Hutton and Tryamkin to do. They will take the next step in their development. Canucks won't be 3rd worst forever. Hutton hit 25 points in his rookie campaign. That is very impressive for a rookie D. He has plenty of potential.

Besides, offense coming from the D is being overrated here. The problem is the forwards aren't scoring. D always have higher assists totals than goal totals. And that's because the forwards finish. On the Canucks, there is no finish, that's why a guy like Eriksson will be very helpful.

Sure players can progress. But pairing Tryamkin with Sbisa (most likely) isn't going to help him progress, and pairing Hutton with an equally poor puck possession player isn't going to help him either. You can't just throw players on the ice and say "do stuff, progress." It doesn't work that way.

No, the Canucks won't be 3rd worst forever. In fact, they could be even worse next season.

Offense from the back end is not underrated at all. A team with a good offensive back end can help make plays for the forwards and generate scoring chances. This shows a lack of understanding of how top offenses operate.

And I don't see Eriksson being all that helpful. He's a bandaid on a team that's had its jugular sliced over and over. A stupid signing.

I disagree, my mock line-up would be very fun to cheer for. You don't have to cheer for Dorsett if you don't want to. Our Panarin, Guadreau or Kuznetsov will be Horvat, Virtanen, Baertschi, Boeser, Demko, and either Tkachuk or Dubois.

You might enjoy cheering for a bad hockey team, but I don't. And those players you list for us are nowhere near as good as Panarin, Gaudrea or Kuznetsov.

 

[Pip]

Besides, offense coming from the D is being overrated here. The problem is the forwards aren't scoring. D always have higher assists totals than goal totals. And that's because the forwards finish. On the Canucks, there is no finish, that's why a guy like Eriksson will be very helpful.

I strongly disagree with this. Having defensemen who can move the puck effectively really drives offense. All 5 players on the ice should be contributing to moving the puck forward and creating scoring chances imo.

 

[fancouver]

Sure players can progress. But pairing Tryamkin with Sbisa (most likely) isn't going to help him progress, and pairing Hutton with an equally poor puck possession player isn't going to help him either. You can't just throw players on the ice and say "do stuff, progress." It doesn't work that way.

No, the Canucks won't be 3rd worst forever. In fact, they could be even worse next season.

Offense from the back end is not underrated at all. A team with a good offensive back end can help make plays for the forwards and generate scoring chances. This shows a lack of understanding of how top offenses operate.

And I don't see Eriksson being all that helpful. He's a bandaid on a team that's had its jugular sliced over and over. A stupid signing.

Well you're changing my mock lineup to Sbisa, so that's irrelevant. I don't have Sbisa anywhere in my lineup.

If Tryamkin is paired with Hamhuis (who is just as likely to sign in Vancouver), then yes I fully expect a strong transition to the NHL for the big Russian. They were a great pair in the limited time spent together near the end of the season and a full season with Hammer will do wonders for the kid.

As I mentioned before, the offense from the D mainly comes from assists. By definition, that means the forwards need to put up the goals. The Canucks lack a trigger man and if you have Eriksson on the RH of the PP, the D will stack up a lot more points than this year. Heck, even adding a guy like Lucic, who is one of the best screens in the league will get the D more points and they can get their shots to the net.

The production from the D is not exclusive from the rest of the team. If you have the right elements (trigger man like Eriksson) then the D will show more offense. It's really not that difficult.

You might enjoy cheering for a bad hockey team, but I don't. And those players you list for us are nowhere near as good as Panarin, Gaudrea or Kuznetsov.

Again, define "bad". The mock lineup I wrote out is likely playoff bound.

One thing I do agree is that Horvat, Baertschi and Virtanen are no where near Panarin, Gaudreau and Kuznetsov, but that doesn't mean we don't have young talent to look forward to. It's still exciting to see our young guys progress even if we don't have the next Pavel Bure in the making. This is what I mean when I say, you should temper your expectations.

 

[Bleach Clean]

A bubble team that likely misses. Again, that's not enough to turn the league's worst offense into an offense that's good enough to make the playoffs, especially with how poor our defense has been. And now the team is the most expensive team in the league, how are they going to address that defense?

Not to mention, goaltending is shaky with Miller.

And that's completely ignoring next season when Demko is our only goalie under contract, and we have potentially big raises for Horvat and Hutton.

They will have added Lucic, Eriksson, Gudbranson, Sutter and Larsen to last year's squad. Tryamkin, Baertschi, Virtanen and Granlund will also play full years. That's enough of a shift to consider it a bubble team. Could make it if things break right. That's all this management team is trying to do.

This season will be determined on the Power Play, IMO. If Virtanen can be the finisher on the Sedins' off side plays, or Sutter, or if the 2nd unit can find something, then it could be enough.

Edit: If they sign Lucic and Eriksson, then the model they are trying to implement reminds me of the 2011 Boston team. Where not a lot of offense was coming from the defense, aside from Chara and perhaps Siedenberg. Edit: They at the 20th ranked PP% that year too.

 

[fancouver]

I strongly disagree with this. Having defensemen who can move the puck effectively really drives offense. All 5 players on the ice should be contributing to moving the puck forward and creating scoring chances imo.

I don't see the issue here. Tanev, Hutton and Hamhuis are mobile and capable of moving the puck effectively up and down the ice. In fact, one of the things Florida fans were saying is that Gudbranson has a really good first pass. So the elements for moving the puck efficiently are there.

The issue is that, outside the Sedins, we don't have any forwards who are capable of sustained pressure leading to goals. Plays only last for 5 seconds in the offensive zone. Adding a guy like Lucic who is a monster in front of the net and has marks will do wonders to the offense. Adding a right-handed option in Eriksson as a trigger man will also add to the offense.

There's a reason why defenceman always have low goal totals. The best offensive D in the league have crazy assist totals. And that's because their forwards are putting the puck in the net.

Karlsson - 82 gp, 16 goals, 66 assists
Barrie - 78 gp, 13 goals, 36 assists
Keith - 67 gp, 9 goals, 34 assists
Subban - 68 gp, 6 goals, 45 assists

Now look at our Canucks:
Edler - 52 gp, 6 goals, 14 assists
Hutton - 75 gp, 1 goal, 24 assists
Tanev - 69 gp, 4 goals, 14 assists

 

[Cupless44]

Top pairing is OK. You're right, it's more of a shutdown pairing.

Hutton-Gudbranson pairing doesn't appeal to me at all. Again, neither defensemen have shown to be any good at maintaining possession of the puck. I expect, unless they're on the ice with solid puck possessing forwards like the Sedins, that this pairing will spend most of its time in the defensive zone. You're falling into the Benning trap where you think an OFD-DFD is a good pairing no matter what.

I like Tryamkin, and being paired with Hamhuis isn't bad. But overall looking at that defense there's no offense coming from it. Overall it's not a good defense.

I don't have to temper my expectations at all. I expect this to be a bad defense, because it is. This was the third worst team in the NHL last season, and was one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Worst at providing offense, and bottom 5 in terms of GA. Adding Gudbranson and a full season of Tryamkin isn't going to suddenly improve this defense. In fact, on paper it's even worse when you consider it's more likely to be Sbisa on the bottom pair with Tryamkin instead of Hamhuis.

I think it is going to be an improved defence next year actually.

The addition of a healthy Edler and the subtraction of Bartkowski and Weber alone will make it better.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Seems like a lot of people are going to be surprised when this team falls flat on its face once again next year. Oh well.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Seems like a lot of people are going to be surprised when this team falls flat on its face once again next year. Oh well.

I don't understand. You've already stated that they are a "bubble team that likely misses". How is that "falling flat on its face"?

 

[Cupless44]

Seems like a lot of people are going to be surprised when this team falls flat on its face once again next year. Oh well.

Not me. Lack of high end talent, no high level players in their prime, no scoring. I merely said the defence will be improved from last year. We won't be 28th again though.

 

[Pip]

I don't see the issue here. Tanev, Hutton and Hamhuis are mobile and capable of moving the puck effectively up and down the ice. In fact, one of the things Florida fans were saying is that Gudbranson has a really good first pass. So the elements for moving the puck efficiently are there.

The issue is that, outside the Sedins, we don't have any forwards who are capable of sustained pressure leading to goals. Plays only last for 5 seconds in the offensive zone. Adding a guy like Lucic who is a monster in front of the net and has marks will do wonders to the offense. Adding a right-handed option in Eriksson as a trigger man will also add to the offense.

There's a reason why defenceman always have low goal totals. The best offensive D in the league have crazy assist totals. And that's because their forwards are putting the puck in the net.

Karlsson - 82 gp, 16 goals, 66 assists
Barrie - 78 gp, 13 goals, 36 assists
Keith - 67 gp, 9 goals, 34 assists
Subban - 68 gp, 6 goals, 45 assists

Now look at our Canucks:
Edler - 52 gp, 6 goals, 14 assists
Hutton - 75 gp, 1 goal, 24 assists
Tanev - 69 gp, 4 goals, 14 assists

I'm going to take issue with the bolded. The best offensive defensemen have good assist totals because they help their forwards create offense.

 

[Canucker]

I don't understand. You've already stated that they are a "bubble team that likely misses". How is that "falling flat on its face"?

To me, that is falling flat on their face...being on the bubble of a playoff team (especially on the outside of the playoffs) is purgatory IMO. Never good enough to compete for a cup and never bad enough to get the best draft picks.

 

[y2kcanucks]

To me, that is falling flat on their face...being on the bubble of a playoff team (especially on the outside of the playoffs) is purgatory IMO. Never good enough to compete for a cup and never bad enough to get the best draft picks.

This.

I know the stooges certainly expect to make the playoffs, and Aquilini after spending all that money bringing in 2-3 big name free agents would expect to make the playoffs. Still missing and ending up with a mid-round draft pick is failing to achieve the unrealistic goal they set forth, and it also accomplishes nothing toward a rebuild. Just another Calgary/Toronto-like year in purgatory. Only now we have a few more bad contracts to add to the list that we already have.

Hopefully this is the Stooges's last year. I hope Benning is fired, Linden resigns in protest, and the new GM turfs Weisbrod and Desjardins.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Sure players can progress. But pairing Tryamkin with Sbisa (most likely) isn't going to help him progress, and pairing Hutton with an equally poor puck possession player isn't going to help him either. You can't just throw players on the ice and say "do stuff, progress." It doesn't work that way.

No, the Canucks won't be 3rd worst forever. In fact, they could be even worse next season.

Offense from the back end is not underrated at all. A team with a good offensive back end can help make plays for the forwards and generate scoring chances. This shows a lack of understanding of how top offenses operate.

And I don't see Eriksson being all that helpful. He's a bandaid on a team that's had its jugular sliced over and over. A stupid signing.




You might enjoy cheering for a bad hockey team, but I don't. And those players you list for us are nowhere near as good as Panarin, Gaudrea or Kuznetsov.

You first say you do not want to add players because 1) you do not want team to improve 2) because these players are not good. Which is it? If they are not good the team will not improve.

Next you say you do not want to cheer for a bad team, but you just said you do not want the team to improve. So which is it.

Next you say the team might be worse next year, like that is a bad thing from your perspective.? When earlier you said you want the team to be bad in order to rebuild? SO basically you are not going to be happy no matter what happens. Team improves bad because they ruin draft position. Team stays bad, bad because you do not want to cheer for a "bad team".

Possible scenarios for your happiness. Ownership sells to a new owner who does not care it the team loses value. This new owner with a 5 year plan where the team becomes less valuable each year and may in fact lose money every year then changes management in order to implement money losing plan. Voila after 5 years of good drafting the team becomes a 2014-15 Florida Panther level team, and there is hope.
Team starts to draw fans again, perhaps getting back to 2015-16 levels.

So that is the dream scenario from your prospective. Unless there is an ownership change to people who do not mind losing money for multiple years for the promise of future gains your dream will not happen. This ownership might if the team struggles for a few more years and the fans stop going at that point there is nothing to lose. Right now there is still a lot to lose. No team that makes money is going to implement a plan to lose money. Like Kevin Leary say's "show me the money".

People should look at things from the owner's perspective. Having a plan that lowers team value and loses them money is not how they got rich in the first place. However if the team value drops and they start losing money then there is less risk and more value to your above plan. Right now and for the last 3 years the sell and rebuild fans have ignored the financial implications of this strategy and as a consequence have set themselves up for years of disappointment no matter what happens with their favorite team. I do not blame the owners, Linden, Benning for their moves they are doing exactly what they should be doing based on the money.