Looking back were these Tim Leiweke comments what lead to Phil Kessel being traded?
- Thread starter LeafsNation75
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Pyrophorus
Registered User
Phil was loved by some developmental people in both WI and MN
Burke loved him for his team first attitude.
However; he seems to have as many detractors as well as people who lauded him.
Hard to say, it could be a culture thing.
Burke loved him for his team first attitude.
However; he seems to have as many detractors as well as people who lauded him.
Hard to say, it could be a culture thing.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
There is something else I forgot to add.
When the news finally broke that the Leafs traded Kessel I think we can agree the return Toronto got was not what they were expecting, considering his goal scoring ability and the total amount of goals Kessel had since the 2009-2010 season. Now maybe part of that was his contract and cap hit, although he never asked to be traded which diminishes a players value like before Rick Nash got traded to the Rangers. I also know Brendan Shanahan talked about a culture change and using his logic why didn't he make Dave Nonis trade Dion Phaneuf at the trade deadline? When everyone heard what the offer was from Detroit I would say the majority of Leafs fans on here said it was better they didn't trade him just for the sake of it. However it looks like they didn't have that same type of thinking when it came to trading Kessel.
When the news finally broke that the Leafs traded Kessel I think we can agree the return Toronto got was not what they were expecting, considering his goal scoring ability and the total amount of goals Kessel had since the 2009-2010 season. Now maybe part of that was his contract and cap hit, although he never asked to be traded which diminishes a players value like before Rick Nash got traded to the Rangers. I also know Brendan Shanahan talked about a culture change and using his logic why didn't he make Dave Nonis trade Dion Phaneuf at the trade deadline? When everyone heard what the offer was from Detroit I would say the majority of Leafs fans on here said it was better they didn't trade him just for the sake of it. However it looks like they didn't have that same type of thinking when it came to trading Kessel.
You can't preach accountability, work ethic, and a team first attitude and have your highest paid player not demonstrate any of the aforementioned qualities during his tenure here. Culture change could not start without getting rid of Phil Kessel, end of story.
While there isn't really any hard proof that Kessel was a poor teammate or a locker room distraction, there's plenty of circumstantial evidence or smoke if you will, even going back to his days in college with Jack Johnson, as well as his tenure with the Boston Bruins and of course, the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Anyway, this has really been beaten to death already. He has his detractors and supporters, and that isn't likely to change any time soon.
While there isn't really any hard proof that Kessel was a poor teammate or a locker room distraction, there's plenty of circumstantial evidence or smoke if you will, even going back to his days in college with Jack Johnson, as well as his tenure with the Boston Bruins and of course, the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Anyway, this has really been beaten to death already. He has his detractors and supporters, and that isn't likely to change any time soon.
The Magic Man
With God given hands
I think it is likely to change as he won't be in the spotlight so much anymore. This media here has a bad habit of making a mountain out of a molehill. The hot dog scandal is a great perfect example of the Hollywood like sensationalism that goes on around here.
Hotdogs are delicious.
Last edited:
HamiltonNHL
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Phil had to go during a rebuild and we had to retain salary to get rid of his contract. Phil will be happy to done with the media circus.
crump
~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Haven't heard any teammates say anything about him other than he was a great teammate, good friend etc. Now, I wouldn't expect them to throw him under a bus in public, but not even reading between the lines will you find a negative teammate comment.
Having said that, you can be a good buddy, and a bad influence at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive. Phil was a Star, he was forgiven certain shortcomings, it seeped into the rest if the team. It allowed them to get lazy. That was a coaches fault, but it may have been the only way to work with Phil.
I will be interested to see how a workaholic like Crosby puts up with Phil's dedication or lack thereof to back checking and the physical side of the game.
Having said that, you can be a good buddy, and a bad influence at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive. Phil was a Star, he was forgiven certain shortcomings, it seeped into the rest if the team. It allowed them to get lazy. That was a coaches fault, but it may have been the only way to work with Phil.
I will be interested to see how a workaholic like Crosby puts up with Phil's dedication or lack thereof to back checking and the physical side of the game.
Pookie
Wear a mask
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If individual players became lazy (and say missed meetings) because they thought Phil was lazy, thats on them not Phil.
These are teammates yes. But they are also professionals, many of whom are playing for their next contracts trying to extend a career beyond the 3-4 years that is the average career length for an NHL player.
If there is no pride in their own preparation and professionalism, that's beyond Phil. And we need different players.
These are teammates yes. But they are also professionals, many of whom are playing for their next contracts trying to extend a career beyond the 3-4 years that is the average career length for an NHL player.
If there is no pride in their own preparation and professionalism, that's beyond Phil. And we need different players.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Never really understood why we give Leiweke so much credit - the guy isn't from the hockey community, he's a business man.
Most of Phils ex teammates have spoken very highly of him. Of course that won't stop people in here claiming he's terrible in the dressing room even though they've never step foot in it themselves.
Most of Phils ex teammates have spoken very highly of him. Of course that won't stop people in here claiming he's terrible in the dressing room even though they've never step foot in it themselves.
ACC1224
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mallory67
Registered User
The "hard data" you have to go on is his interactions and slips to the media. To me those slips show his true character as a guy who is not a leader. He seemed like a moody guy who would snap at you, give you the cold shoulder or keep to himself.
Didn't he also have a fight with Booth? That is some more hard data. Can't imagine Crosby or Tavares or Getzlaf fighting a guy on a 1 year contract in practice ...
Leaders lead. Kessel did a lot of stupid stuff that took away from his goals.
they all said the same thing
character issues, no compete
the only thing they didn't say was Phil Kessel
im assuming but based on whether he liked it or not Kessel was a leader on those teams and they needed a lot more out of him. specifically character and compete.
ACC1224
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It's not uncommon for players to come together in practice especially when things are going bad. As I recalled they pushed a bit, never really fought.
I agree with that, he was put in an uncomfortable position. Kessel is a great talent but no leader.
Northern Dancer
The future ain't what it used to be.
I think 'salutegate' which was supposedly Kessel's idea did him in. If I re-collect Shanahan went postal over this. I think that started the clock ticking.
For the record I had no issue with salutegate, the fans were acting like idiots, it was deserved.
For the record I had no issue with salutegate, the fans were acting like idiots, it was deserved.
Yes, because giving the fans that pay their salaries a collective **** you was obviously deserved. It wasn't just that they sucked, it was how they went about it. Lazy, uninspired performances nightly and fans shouldn't be upset with the team? The ACC should of rained jerseys with how big of a joke the team was on the ice. Or better yet, they should of showed exactly what was being shown on the ice, indifference.
The return would have been a lot better if he would have been willing to have been traded to any team.
Based on his contract and only 8 possible teams, we didn't get as good of a return as we otherwise might have got.
Either way, I'm still happy with the return. Kessel was lazy and out of shape and he's going to decline very quickly unless he really turns things around.
slozo
Registered User
Don't think Kessel leaving had anything to do with Leiweke. It was Shanahan.
I still can't believe the lengths some people go to to defend Kessel . . . I really don't get it. And I actually think that his behaviour was covered up way more than exaggerated, as his defenders will have you believe . . . I mean for instance, I don't hear the guys who defended him about his playing shape/weight apologizing now, now that we know he did have 13 lbs to lose. His effort level wasn't debatable last season, it was horrible last half - and yet people still defend it. And quite frankly, I do put some stock in comments from guys like Wilson and Carlyle - these guys WANT to get hired again! They (Wilson much more so) were only being honest when answering questions . . . and remember, Kessel had great years under Wilson, and they by all accounts had a fantastic relationship AT THE TIME (now we know how Wilson felt though).
I agree with another poster here - the "no-salute" F-you to the fans was the tipping point for Shanahan, as it correctly should have been. And if that management team has kept Dion up until now . . . you now know who was probably behind it - the guy who's gone.
Oh everyone needs to get over the no salute. They never saluted after every game prior to about 3 years ago and everyone got on fine.
His character is under fire because the media didn't like him and he didn't like the media. Same as when Burke went to war with them.
Do I think there's something behind the scenes, maybe. But the players have said otherwise. Unless any of us were actually in the dressing room, or know someone inside the dressing room. We won't know. And no reading between any lines is going to tell us anything. Unless anyone who does will just find what they want to find regardless of what's true. Jumping to conclusions and what not with lack of evidence. Love this fanbase.
His character is under fire because the media didn't like him and he didn't like the media. Same as when Burke went to war with them.
Do I think there's something behind the scenes, maybe. But the players have said otherwise. Unless any of us were actually in the dressing room, or know someone inside the dressing room. We won't know. And no reading between any lines is going to tell us anything. Unless anyone who does will just find what they want to find regardless of what's true. Jumping to conclusions and what not with lack of evidence. Love this fanbase.
Stephen
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I think they'll eat him up just the same in Pittsburgh. It's not like they go easy on Marc Andre Fleury.
ACC1224
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