Post-Game Talk: *Long fart noise*

xoczar99ox

Registered User
Oct 8, 2019
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Well why would you want to start a line with a better chance of scoring first anyway? :dunno:
Cause you need the high energy guys like Kassian to set the tone, and they always do. They end up getting hemmed in there own end for two minutes straight and the rest of the team follows suit for the next fifty eight. Mission accomplished.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,727
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Calgary
Hard disagree. You can't simultaneously complain that Holland hasn't brought in a top-4 D or goalie then turn around and dismiss the ones he has.
Going with the exact same goalie tandem as last year was always a bad idea. Holland needed an upgrade and failed to provide one.

As for Duncan Keith, he's marginally a top 4 D and is sure paid like one for this year and the next. For his salary you could've found a better player. Hell, Cody Ceci is better AND cheaper than Duncan Keith, so I'll give Holland that much, I guess.
 

xoczar99ox

Registered User
Oct 8, 2019
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We can dislike Jfresh and other advanced stats guys but the teams play WAS mostly predicted. Goaltending has actually been better than expected as wild as that is but overall, the stat guys appear to be right about Edmonton so far.


Cool but you don’t need advanced stats to tell you that the sky is blue on sunny days. We all knew this without the rocket scientist pointing it out.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

Tier 2 Fan
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I mean, even if Tippett shakes up the playbook a bit... It's something. They're looking like they've become predictable out there.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,652
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Edmonton, AB
Going with the exact same goalie tandem as last year was always a bad idea. Holland needed an upgrade and failed to provide one.

As for Duncan Keith, he's marginally a top 4 D and is sure paid like one for this year and the next. For his salary you could've found a better player. Hell, Cody Ceci is better AND cheaper than Duncan Keith, so I'll give Holland that much, I guess.

Partly agreed on the tandem this year, but the problem is Koskinen who is incredibly hard to move (and was signed by Chia). Smith (brought in by Holland) has exceeded all expectations and was one of the top starters in the league last year. Replacing him wouldn't have been a huge improvement this year, health aside.

Disagree on the bolded. Keith has been solid and gets more flak than he deserves imo. And with a. young group of Nurse/Bouchard/etc I don't blame Holland at all for paying more for experience. I'm completely comfortable with Nurse/Bouchard/Keith/Ceci as a top-4 group.

My main point regardless was that ignoring the Puljujarvi and Hyman additions is very sneaky. We had one top-6 winger when Holland took over, now we have three.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,476
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Hyman succeds everywhere. With buge as well.
Pulj also has this now. Other players havnt glued with McDavid, but Draisaitl has maked a lot for guys. Yammer is having a hard time on any line. McDavids as well. He needs to go to 3rd line, mix it a bit.
The stats disagree with everything you've said.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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Partly agreed on the tandem this year, but the problem is Koskinen who is incredibly hard to move (and was signed by Chia). Smith (brought in by Holland) has exceeded all expectations and was one of the top starters in the league last year. Replacing him wouldn't have been a huge improvement this year, health aside.

Smith had a great year last year but he wasn't likely to repeat his play and still had health concerns. NOBODY was going to sign Smith to the contract Holland gave out. Many teams have upgraded their goaltending within the past few years (including in this very province) while we're hoping the third time's the charm with the same duo that couldn't get it done the last two years. And Smith getting hurt is probably the least surprising development of this year.

Disagree on the bolded. Keith has been solid and gets more flak than he deserves imo. And with a. young group of Nurse/Bouchard/etc I don't blame Holland at all for paying more for experience. I'm completely comfortable with Nurse/Bouchard/Keith/Ceci as a top-4 group.

He's been fine but not worth what we're paying him for. Holland had Duncan Keith land in his lap and he couldn't get the Hawks to take on any salary whatsoever. And speaking of Darnell Nurse... Hoo boy is that extension looking rotten before it has even begun. Bouchard is also starting to show his inexperience which is not ideal.

My main point regardless was that ignoring the Puljujarvi and Hyman additions is very sneaky. We had one top-6 winger when Holland took over, now we have three.
Bringing JP back was good. I don't know how much credit he deserves since he wasn't going to any other team but alright. Hyman is fine but that contract is going to look very Lucic-like within a few years. And of course this is ignoring bloated extensions to Barrie, Kassian, keeping Russell in the lineup, and a bottom six that's somehow even worse than last year.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
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Edmonton, AB
Smith had a great year last year but he wasn't likely to repeat his play and still had health concerns. NOBODY was going to sign Smith to the contract Holland gave out. Many teams have upgraded their goaltending within the past few years (including in this very province) while we're hoping the third time's the charm with the same duo that couldn't get it done the last two years. And Smith getting hurt is probably the least surprising development of this year.



He's been fine but not worth what we're paying him for. Holland had Duncan Keith land in his lap and he couldn't get the Hawks to take on any salary whatsoever. And speaking of Darnell Nurse... Hoo boy is that extension looking rotten before it has even begun. Bouchard is also starting to show his inexperience which is not ideal.


Bringing JP back was good. I don't know how much credit he deserves since he wasn't going to any other team but alright. Hyman is fine but that contract is going to look very Lucic-like within a few years. And of course this is ignoring bloated extensions to Barrie, Kassian, keeping Russell in the lineup, and a bottom six that's somehow even worse than last year.

Good points all around. But as I've said I am fine with Keith being an overpay - the experience he brings I think is worth it, and I'm sure that was Holland's reasoning too. Agreed completely on the Nurse extension, should have waited imo. Bouchard having growing pains isn't a huge surprise. Doesn't change the outlook for him in the top-4 imo.

I can almost guarantee that Chiarelli would have traded JP for pennies on the dollar. Now Chiarelli is a super low bar, but my point is Holland managed the situation very well and I'm not sure too many GMs would have. Disagree on Hyman being the next Lucic. He has a lot less miles, and more importantly he is, based on this season, a much better skater and shooter than Lucic ever was.

Agreed on the Kassian contract. But Barrie is easily moveable and when we inevitable trade him we will receive some assets (might be small) in return. So re-signing him was imo the right call. I also don't mind Russell being here on a cheap deal competing with Koekkoek, Lagesson, Niemelainen, Broberg, etc for the #6 and #7 roles. That will likely be an area to upgrade at the TDL, but Russell's contract is hardly worth complaining about.

The bottom-6 has indeed not been great. I don't think Holland did enough on the 4th line once he found out Archibald was going to be out. That's a bigger hit than people realize imo and Holland should have dealt with it. Though again I expect he'll address it at the TDL. The 3rd line however I am less concerned than most about. I think Foegele-McLeod is the basis for a solid 3rd line. McLeod has shown constant improvement and is fine in that role right now imo. I'm willing to give Foegele a few months more to grow comfortable with this team.

Basically, what I think the problems are for this team:

2RW could be upgraded. Ideally, We get a guy who bumps Yamamoto down to 3RW, and Kassian gets fired into the sun.
4th line needs an identity. We need at least one new guy for that.
3LD needs an upgrade. Not the most pressing issue but it will matter for the playoffs imo.
We need a goalie to replace Koskinen. But the hard part will be getting rid of Koskinen.

What the team ideally would look like:

Hyman-McDavid-Puljujarvi
RNH-Draisaitl-X
Foegele-McLeod-Yamamoto
Benson/X-Sceviour-X
Shore

Nurse-Bouchard
Keith-Ceci
X-Barrie
Russell/Koekkoek

X
Smith
Skinner

Based on the Xs, compared to where we were before he took over, I don't think Holland has done badly at all overall.
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
41,698
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Ontario
Partly agreed on the tandem this year, but the problem is Koskinen who is incredibly hard to move (and was signed by Chia). Smith (brought in by Holland) has exceeded all expectations and was one of the top starters in the league last year. Replacing him wouldn't have been a huge improvement this year, health aside.

Disagree on the bolded. Keith has been solid and gets more flak than he deserves imo. And with a. young group of Nurse/Bouchard/etc I don't blame Holland at all for paying more for experience. I'm completely comfortable with Nurse/Bouchard/Keith/Ceci as a top-4 group.

My main point regardless was that ignoring the Puljujarvi and Hyman additions is very sneaky. We had one top-6 winger when Holland took over, now we have three.

Koskinen was extremely easy to move. A $1.5M buyout cap hit is nothing.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
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Yup. Plus Keith and Smith (top-4 D and a goalie) being injured.

Indeed. It’s odd to see fans dismiss the top 6 needs that Holland had to address as if it was never a concern. It was the primary concern of most fans for years now
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

Life is better with no expectations.
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Holland is just waiting for you to officially jump on FireTippett, then he’ll know it’s ok to do it.

So please do it ASAP, for the sake of the Oilers. ;)

Holland knows I am on the "meh" train. Fire him now, I wont lose any sleep over it. Don't renew him later, I am fine with that too.

I just don't want Babcock....
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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We already have a good 3C in RNH and the winger depth to run 3 decent lines. I don’t know why they never attempt this.

I agree that should be tried. I think we can run 3 centers but Tippett wants to get RNH on the ice with top 6 5v5 minutes. Personally Id rather him at 3C and give him the PP and PK he can handle.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,484
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Holland likes familiarity. I think Babcock has to be the odds on favourite.
He’s not gonna risk the PR distraction. Julien is basically the same coach with less PR risk and players don’t hate playing for him as much.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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He’s not gonna risk the PR distraction. Julien is basically the same coach with less PR risk and players don’t hate playing for him as much.

They still hate playing for him (CJ). We blew it by not hiring BB in VanCan.
 

Oilslick941611

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
14,463
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Ottawa
Smith had a great year last year but he wasn't likely to repeat his play and still had health concerns. NOBODY was going to sign Smith to the contract Holland gave out. Many teams have upgraded their goaltending within the past few years (including in this very province) while we're hoping the third time's the charm with the same duo that couldn't get it done the last two years. And Smith getting hurt is probably the least surprising development of this year.



He's been fine but not worth what we're paying him for. Holland had Duncan Keith land in his lap and he couldn't get the Hawks to take on any salary whatsoever. And speaking of Darnell Nurse... Hoo boy is that extension looking rotten before it has even begun. Bouchard is also starting to show his inexperience which is not ideal.


Bringing JP back was good. I don't know how much credit he deserves since he wasn't going to any other team but alright. Hyman is fine but that contract is going to look very Lucic-like within a few years. And of course this is ignoring bloated extensions to Barrie, Kassian, keeping Russell in the lineup, and a bottom six that's somehow even worse than last year.
I just want to point out your comment about the flames upgrading goaltending. You are cherry picking here, marks from sucked last year. Last year it certainly wasn’t an upgrade, but this year they have everything going from them and well, they have lost three in a row, when the oilers lost 2 in a row there was a huge shitstorm here about firing the coach, so if you are gonna use that logic on the oilers use it on the flames too. If they lose tonight that’s 4 in a row, do they fire sutter? And get a new goalie?


No, because that’s stupid.
 
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McShogun99

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Aug 30, 2009
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I agree that should be tried. I think we can run 3 centers but Tippett wants to get RNH on the ice with top 6 5v5 minutes. Personally Id rather him at 3C and give him the PP and PK he can handle.

Splitting the 3 centers will lower their 5x5 minutes but create a more balanced team and we’ll still have a deadly PP. McDrai will still produce 5x5 with pretty much any winger combination. RNH will just need some size on his wings, that’s why I’d like to try this top 9.

Hyman-Mcdavid-Kassian
Benson-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Foegele-RNH-JP

It’s not ideal but it gives RNH and Mcdavid wingers with size/grit. Draisaitl gets a puck hound in Yamamoto and a potential decent playmaker/pest in Benson.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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I just want to point out your comment about the flames upgrading goaltending. You are cherry picking here, marks from sucked last year. Last year it certainly wasn’t an upgrade, but this year they have everything going from them and well, they have lost three in a row, when the oilers lost 2 in a row there was a huge shitstorm here about firing the coach, so if you are gonna use that logic on the oilers use it on the flames too. If they lose tonight that’s 4 in a row, do they fire sutter? And get a new goalie?


No, because that’s stupid.
Markstrom sucked after he got hurt because Geoff Ward played him too much. Now they have two competent goalies and a coach who knows how to utilize them properly.

The difference between the Flames and Oilers is that the Flames were NOT expected to be this good. The Oilers should've been Cup contenders after the 2016-17 season and here we are staring at the possibility of another wasted season of McDrai. The Flames can be proud of their current position in the standings even if they are slipping a bit.

The Oilers on the other hand are being exposed as a depthless team for the third straight year in addition to having goaltending that simply isn't getting it done. If you want another example of a team with two good goalies you'll see them the next game the Oilers play.
 

Oilslick941611

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
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Markstrom sucked after he got hurt because Geoff Ward played him too much. Now they have two competent goalies and a coach who knows how to utilize them properly.

The difference between the Flames and Oilers is that the Flames were NOT expected to be this good. The Oilers should've been Cup contenders after the 2016-17 season and here we are staring at the possibility of another wasted season of McDrai. The Flames can be proud of their current position in the standings even if they are slipping a bit.

The Oilers on the other hand are being exposed as a depthless team for the third straight year in addition to having goaltending that simply isn't getting it done. If you want another example of a team with two good goalies you'll see them the next game the Oilers play.
you mean the team that was written off 10 games into the season?

The only thing matters (to people who care) is what the standings are after al 82 games are played. To make stupid judgements and criticisms and doom and gloom predictions is too easy and predictable. Tippet won't be fired over a 5 game losing streak and there's nothing that says the Oilers can't contend for the cup this season, still plenty of time of left and lets not forget we have injuries in key positions still, but based off your user name I doubt you feel that way.

Im seriously tired of reading the same posts from the same people complaining about the same stuff albeit a little crazier each day, you guys are losing your freaking minds and im worried about the mental health of some posters here. The upside of this though is less posts from me calling you guys out (even you deserve it) and quite frankly if the team turns it around and makes the playoffs and wins some series, I hope I don't see you cheering too hard.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,727
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Calgary
you mean the team that was written off 10 games into the season?

The only thing matters (to people who care) is what the standings are after al 82 games are played. To make stupid judgements and criticisms and doom and gloom predictions is too easy and predictable. Tippet won't be fired over a 5 game losing streak and there's nothing that says the Oilers can't contend for the cup this season, still plenty of time of left and lets not forget we have injuries in key positions still, but based off your user name I doubt you feel that way.

Im seriously tired of reading the same posts from the same people complaining about the same stuff albeit a little crazier each day, you guys are losing your freaking minds and im worried about the mental health of some posters here. The upside of this though is less posts from me calling you guys out (even you deserve it) and quite frankly if the team turns it around and makes the playoffs and wins some series, I hope I don't see you cheering too hard.
Tippett shouldn't be fired for a five game losing streak. He should be fired for 2+ years of being unable to take this team to the next level. He should be fired for being constantly outcoached, even by the absolute dregs of the league. He should be fired for having no adjustments other than "Put McDavid and Draisatl together". He should be fired for the consistent slow starts, the lack of energy in the team, the woeful even strength play, and so on.

Injuries happen to every team. A great man once said "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it." And we're sure seeing the character of this team in the face of adversity. If Ceci and Keith being out leads to the destruction of the team then I can tell you that it was never a good team to begin with.

You can worry about my mental health all you want. 15+ years of watching this dumpster fire of a team spin its tires when the real problem has been staring it in the face for all that time would take its toll on anyone. Can this team go on a deep run? Sure they can. Will they? I don't know why anyone would think so. We're banking on Mike Smith being God again. At some point he's going to turn back into a pumpkin (or find himself on IR yet again).
 

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