London Knights 2016 Off-Season Thread

[RayzorIsDull]

The pictures shown in the latest link Otto posted about the issue solidify the jersey is a fake, a recreated replica. Anyone with even an inkling of knowledge in the collector game could spot the red flags from a mile away. Send that jersey to a seasoned knowledgeable collector with years of experience...you got yourself a lawsuit. And that's where we are now, on top of the other information that hasn't gone public.

Is FP intentionally doing this??? I am not even that knowledgeable with collector items but these pictures look like a fake to me.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

Is FP intentionally doing this??? I am not even that knowledgeable with collector items but these pictures look like a fake to me.

How poorly the jersey was "faked" is beyond laughable really.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

That feeling when you try to fake a game worn jersey and forget to take off the born on tag.......lol

Surprised they remembered to remove the hang tags.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If(when) he wins it will be a victory for every collector. Not just himself. There have been allegations that this has been happening for years, this is the 1st time it's ever had any real legs. This is to protect a hobby he (and many others) truly love.

Exactly.

A lot of the misinformed comments about this story seem to come from people having no idea about game worn jerseys as a hobby. Not that your average person should know, but people outright saying he is wrong, or just going for a payday, or doesn't have a case, while they have no knowledge about how the hobby works is off base.

Granted, the Knights did a good job muddying the waters and painting the guy out to be unreasonable to your average person who has no understanding of gamers. The confidentiality clause is the only thing that could have made them look guilty to a non-collector.

 

[DopeyFish]

I was under the impression that the purchaser made a mistake because there is always the possibility of a 2nd set.

HOWEVER

Having the MemCup patch PLUS the manufacturing label basically just swung it way in favor of the buyer.

Reasoning is... if it has that patch that means it was game worn before that point. Which means it had to have been laundered. Which means that tag shouldn't be in the shape it is.

I also tried combing every picture I could find just to see if any of them had the alignment of the assistant captains patch and I could not.

There is way too much evidence... but the memorial cup patch just nuked the knights potential defense from orbit imo

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

That feeling when you try to fake a game worn jersey and forget to take off the born on tag.......lol

Surprised they remembered to remove the hang tags.

This is the kicker. I actually was in tears when I initially saw that photo(seems like ages ago now). I guess you could chalk it up as the Knights made a "rookie mistake"

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

I was under the impression that the purchaser made a mistake because there is always the possibility of a 2nd set.

HOWEVER

Having the MemCup patch PLUS the manufacturing label basically just swung it way in favor of the buyer.

Reasoning is... if it has that patch that means it was game worn before that point. Which means it had to have been laundered. Which means that tag shouldn't be in the shape it is.

I also tried combing every picture I could find just to see if any of them had the alignment of the assistant captains patch and I could not.

There is way too much evidence... but the memorial cup patch just nuked the knights potential defense from orbit imo

I've actually seen off the rack items in the Armoury with more "battle wounds" than this jersey. It's in pristine shape. It should be...it's brand new

 

[aresknights]

Swing and a Wiffen.

 

[Fastpace]

The pictures shown in the latest link Otto posted about the issue solidify the jersey is a fake, a recreated replica. Anyone with even an inkling of knowledge in the collector game could spot the red flags from a mile away. Send that jersey to a seasoned knowledgeable collector with years of experience...you got yourself a lawsuit. And that's where we are now, on top of the other information that hasn't gone public.

Fair enough ! I understand how at heart collectors take their hobby. I know it appears that I am arguing with empty pockets, I don't mean to be a jerk, it's very true I am not very knowledgeable in the collecting world, I do know a bit about business law through life experience. I just wanted to bring people back to earth when it comes to dealing with lawsuit, it always start when both sides of lawsuit feel they have legal reason. Like all the crazy stuff I wrote in many of my previous posts, much more will be brought up in court procedure, it's absolutely crazy in there, they try anything to gain the upper hand. I just want to move on and talk about hockey, I also wanted to say there are always two equal sides to any stories. I have said the Knights will prevail and you have along with others placed some reasonable doubts in my original comment. Now Let's talk hockey

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

Full support for someone standing up to the local heroes.

The actions of the organization make no sense if what they're saying is true. Why on earth would you offer to get the jersey from the Hall of Fame for him if he in fact wasn't promised that one?

Sounds like the old case of trying to play people, and when you get caught, you try to appease them. The times you get away it with convince you it's worthwhile. Wonder how many have been successfully duped?

And it also sounds like some serious arrogance radiating from a certain organization.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

This is the kicker. I actually was in tears when I initially saw that photo(seems like ages ago now). I guess you could chalk it up as the Knights made a "rookie mistake"

Two things:

The "puck" marks on the 93 on the left arm are LOL

The fact that the sticker is pristine indicates the jersey has absolutely not been washed, and most likely not even worn. The thought that a team would have not laundered the jersey after use and before being given to the winning bidder is also LOL

All the signs point to the Knights trying to pull a fast one here. It's the problem when you start lying....you are often forced to continue to build lie upon lie until eventually, the whole thing crumbles.

Only thing I don't get is the 100,000 ask. I guess its a principle sort of thing, but it seems a little outlandish to me.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

The Knights have gotten back the Memorial Cup jersey from the HHoF which is no doubt legit game worn - Marner had the record number of points so he'd be getting an even more valuable jersey than he bid on, which was just any game worn jersey from the 2015-16 season.

So.....why is he refusing to take the jersey from the Hall of Fame? He seems to want either a judge to award punitive damages or the Knights to admit wrong doing and pay him damages. Maybe he's just high principled about the situation, that does seem to be the most likely case. I assume the non-disclosure agreement the Knights made a condition is to stop him from bad mouthing the Knights within the collectibles community. Some would say that points to the Knights being guilty, a judge may not agree with that view.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

The Knights have gotten back the Memorial Cup jersey from the HHoF which is no doubt legit game worn - Marner had the record number of points so he'd be getting an even more valuable jersey than he bid on, which was just any game worn jersey from the 2015-16 season.

So.....why is he refusing to take the jersey from the Hall of Fame? He seems to want either a judge to award punitive damages or the Knights to admit wrong doing and pay him damages. Maybe he's just high principled about the situation, that does seem to be the most likely case. I assume the non-disclosure agreement the Knights made a condition is to stop him from bad mouthing the Knights within the collectibles community. Some would say that points to the Knights being guilty, a judge may not agree with that view.

A judge wouldn't care about their settlement attempts prior to litigation.

Essentially, the Knights tried to extract additional consideration for the jersey, over and above what the auction price was, and the guy refused. I don't blame him.

If it settles now, he'll probably give them a release. And by filing the lawsuit, any non-disclosure agreement will have more limited impact.

 

[Millpond]

It sounds like the guy was fleeced. The question is whether someone in the Knights upper echelon was aware of the gaff, knew the original was 'loaned' to the hockey hall of fame and came up with a creative solution.

Of maybe just the work of a creative merch guy ?

The buyer may well have a legitimate beef, but I think once the team offered to fetch him an authentic game worn ( and Memorial Cup worn ) Marner jersey, the guy should have taken it, as that is what he was after all along. He could then ***** to his wife, kids , drinking buddies, work mates neighbours, but he would have the jersey and life could go on for him .
By brining this thing public, he's likely become persona non grata at the Bud, meaning he'll never get to watch another home game 'live' of his so called favorite team.

He will likely not win the lawsuit and it will cost him plenty to try. Turning into a lose- lose for him , I'd think. And now that he has filed his suit, there's not a snowballs chance in hell the Knights are handing over said jersey, unless and until a court orders the to do so.

I've got to side with the Knights on this one.

Oh and Marner ? He's likely already been advised to have no contact with this guy. Ever .

And my two cents worth. I do not think any Mitch Marner jersey is, or will be worth $3,500 dollars , any time soon.

I've got a few 'poor man's " somewhat authentic, though not verifiable" jerseys of my favorite Attack players. They may not be game worn ,but I know the player has at least touched them !


I go pick out a jersey at the Attack Shack, get it lettered and ask the nice girls to kindly get the player to sign it for me. They've always obliged , and at no additional cost to me. The outlay was always under $200 dollars.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

And my two cents worth. I do not think any Mitch Marner jersey is, or will be worth $3,500 dollars , any time soon.



I go pick out a jersey at the Attack Shack, get it lettered and ask the nice girls to kindly get the player to sign it for me. They've always obliged , and at no additional cost to me. The outlay was always under $200 dollars.

On the first part, you're wrong - although, I would tend to agree with you The jersey sold in an open online auction for $3500. That in itself, makes the jersey worth $3500. It's a lot like art in that way...it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it at the time. Though like you said, for me, no jersey would be worth that much!

As for the second part, to each their own. I have replicas purchased from the team store, and also a few game worns purchased from the team store and other places. I like the replica's because its much more cost effective, but I also like the game worn because it makes me feel like I'm holding history in my hands.....perhaps silly, but it's true!

 

[superdee]

Can we put this topic to bed. Who other the Mr Gabrielson and the Knights give a rat's ass because I know I don't. They tried to make it right and that wasn't good enough. Let's talk about hockey not jersey collectors and let the courts decide.

 

[GoKnightsGo44]

Can we put this topic to bed. Who other the Mr Gabrielson and the Knights give a rat's ass because I know I don't. They tried to make it right and that wasn't good enough. Let's talk about hockey not jersey collectors and let the courts decide.

Amen... ok so when does training camp start and who of the new signee's will be traded to make playing time available?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The Knights have gotten back the Memorial Cup jersey from the HHoF which is no doubt legit game worn - Marner had the record number of points so he'd be getting an even more valuable jersey than he bid on, which was just any game worn jersey from the 2015-16 season.

So.....why is he refusing to take the jersey from the Hall of Fame? He seems to want either a judge to award punitive damages or the Knights to admit wrong doing and pay him damages. Maybe he's just high principled about the situation, that does seem to be the most likely case. I assume the non-disclosure agreement the Knights made a condition is to stop him from bad mouthing the Knights within the collectibles community. Some would say that points to the Knights being guilty, a judge may not agree with that view.

Because fraud is of great concern to game worn collectors. It is a tight knit hobby with its own culture. This guy has an opportunity to send a message to any other junior team or smaller outfit that will make them think twice about trying to screw over his fellow collectors. Taking the jersey and signing the confidentiality agreement lets the Knights off easy. The story will be swept under the rug, and they'll continue to craft the narrative as they attempted to initially do where they did nothing wrong, or it was a big misunderstanding because he won't be able to say anything relating to the story.

I collect jerseys (not gamers) so I am somewhat familiar with the "community". If you don't know anything about game worn collecting, you'll have a hard time making heads and tails of this, especially when that first article published seemed to be such a blatant spin job. I don't know the author of the article, but it reads almost as if the Knights wrote it and handed it to him to publish with under his name lol. (I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT HAPPENED....only that it reads that way.)

A lot of posts are people not understanding the story because they have no knowledge of the hobby and how it works.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Can we put this topic to bed. Who other the Mr Gabrielson and the Knights give a rat's ass because I know I don't. They tried to make it right and that wasn't good enough. Let's talk about hockey not jersey collectors and let the courts decide.

lol tried to make it right?

They completely miscalculated the collectors intentions and attempted to persuade him to sign a confidentiality clause so that they could have the opportunity to sweep the story under the rug and control the narrative after the story is settled.

People are going to keep talking about it because it is a compelling story, and the Knights organization were ********s in their handling of it. It is also an ongoing story, so it is unrealistic for you to expect people to not talk about it just because you don't want to hear about how your favorite team tried to screw over a long time fan and then tried to tool him around and sweep it under the rug.

 

[4kmm4]

Jersey .... buyer beware!
Is this a hockey board or a London Legal news board? Who cares!
All I care about is when I get my season tickets.
Sept.2 is coming fast.

 

[Maxxim1]

deleted

 

[youngblood10]

I'd love to hear more about these supposed damages are

Otto, you're business savvy enough to know you're being ridiculous right now. If you're not I have lots of painted rocks, I mean gold nuggets I'd like to sell you.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

The Knights have gotten back the Memorial Cup jersey from the HHoF which is no doubt legit game worn - Marner had the record number of points so he'd be getting an even more valuable jersey than he bid on, which was just any game worn jersey from the 2015-16 season.

So.....why is he refusing to take the jersey from the Hall of Fame? He seems to want either a judge to award punitive damages or the Knights to admit wrong doing and pay him damages. Maybe he's just high principled about the situation, that does seem to be the most likely case. I assume the non-disclosure agreement the Knights made a condition is to stop him from bad mouthing the Knights within the collectibles community. Some would say that points to the Knights being guilty, a judge may not agree with that view.

He was only offered the jersey AFTER he threatened court action. He was also pressured by Whiffen stating he would have to sign a full confidentiality release that if he were to talk about the incident he would be held liable for slander. The Knights (Whiffen) tried to bully him into keeping his mouth shut. This is beyond the jersey now. This is about protecting the hobby.

Some people here don't realize just how big of a story this is. This is HUGE...unprecedented in the collectible hobby. This story will not be kicked to the sidelines any time soon just because some posters here don't understand how defining it is.

http://gameworn.us/why-the-london-knights-case-is-a-landmark-case-for-the-hobby/

 

[the man22]

He was only offered the jersey AFTER he threatened court action. He was also pressured by Whiffen stating he would have to sign a full confidentiality release that if he were to talk about the incident he would be held liable for slander. The Knights (Whiffen) tried to bully him into keeping his mouth shut. This is beyond the jersey now. This is about protecting the hobby.

Some people here don't realize just how big of a story this is. This is HUGE...unprecedented in the collectible hobby. This story will not be kicked to the sidelines any time soon just because some posters here don't understand how defining it is.

http://gameworn.us/why-the-london-knights-case-is-a-landmark-case-for-the-hobby/

As soon as the team starts playing again this will be "old news". I understand what is going on here. Don't get me wrong. It's just the news cycle. The story will go away until he heads to court. It will ramp up for a couple of days and then die down again. This in the grand scheme is not a HUGE story.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

This in the grand scheme is not a HUGE story.

In the every day lives of a hockey team and it's fans...no...In a close knit community of collectors...unprecedented. Huge is actually an understatement.