Prospect Info: Logan Stanley: How has he progressed?

[Whileee]

I'll believe it when I see it.

You'll see it. He's good, and the Jets really like him. They wanted to turn pro a year earlier.

 

[Daximus]

Chevys already talked about Samberg as a potential answer to improving the Jets' D. Notably, he didn't mention Stanley as an answer.

You'll see it. He's good, and the Jets really like him. They wanted to turn pro a year earlier.

Assuming Samberg is going to fix our D problems in his rookie season is a big assumption. Hopefully the kid can handle that kind of pressure.

 

[surixon]

Assuming Samberg is going to fix our D problems in his rookie season is a big assumption. Hopefully the kid can handle that kind of pressure.

I just hope he can come in and play good hockey on the third pairing. If he works his way into the top 4 based on merit then that is a bonus for me. We need to bring in two established good dmen along with Samberg being able to play solid hockey to turn this defense around next season.

 

[Whileee]

Assuming Samberg is going to fix our D problems in his rookie season is a big assumption. Hopefully the kid can handle that kind of pressure.

He won't transform the D but I think he'll be an improvement on our LD position. The point in this discussion was that the Jets haven't shown the inclination to elevate Stanley in the depth chart just because of his draft status. I think it's clear that they already have Samberg and Heinola ahead of him.

 

[Daximus]

He won't transform the D but I think he'll be an improvement on our LD position. The point in this discussion was that the Jets haven't shown the inclination to elevate Stanley in the depth chart just because of his draft status. I think it's clear that they already have Samberg and Heinola ahead of him.

Like I said though I'll believe Stanley isn't going to get his 200 games when he doesn't get his 200 games.

 

[ps241]

Assuming Samberg is going to fix our D problems in his rookie season is a big assumption. Hopefully the kid can handle that kind of pressure.

The crazy part about D is for better or worse (as we saw last season) there is larger leveraging in smaller numbers on The D core.

Any team needs 4 legit D to fill out their top four. Last year we had 2 top 4 level D men in Pionk and Morrissey so we really had a top two and a bottom 4 but we decided to mix and match to water down two pair in our top 4. It was a mess.

One guy like Buff leaving completely screwed our situation because he was our #1 and the hole was impossible to fill short term without the cap space.

Conversely adding a solid top 4 asset like DeMelo really helped because he formed 25% of our top 4 and really helped lighten the load for Josh with a legit partner. Samberg doesn’t have to be a savior but if he grows into a #4 this season that would really help Pionk not have to carry the second pair. Samberg or any guy filling that top 4 spot by the math represents 25% of the real estate.

We will still miss Buff but it would be a huge step forward to at least have 4 D men that “belong” in the top 4. Now I am not saying Samberg will necessarily hit the ground running but I could see him growing into a role in our top four as this upcoming season progresses.

Now I know I am saying nice thing about Samberg but I have maintained all along to hedge our bets I would like to see us acquire a veteran #4 LHD man short term. The more guys we have that belong in the top 4 the better.

 

[Whileee]

The crazy part about D is for better or worse (as we saw last season) there is larger leveraging in smaller numbers on The D core.

Any team needs 4 legit D to fill out their top four. Last year we had 2 top 4 level D men in Pionk and Morrissey so we really had a top two and a bottom 4 but we decided to mix and match to water down two pair in our top 4. It was a mess.

One guy like Buff leaving completely screwed our situation because he was our #1 and the hole was impossible to fill short term without the cap space.

Conversely adding a solid top 4 asset like DeMelo really helped because he formed 25% of our top 4 and really helped lighten the load for Josh with a legit partner. Samberg doesn’t have to be a savior but if he grows into a #4 this season that would really help Pionk not have to carry the second pair. Samberg or any guy filling that top 4 spot by the math represents 25% of the real estate.

We will still miss Buff but it would be a huge step forward to at least have 4 D men that “belong” in the top 4. Now I am not saying Samberg will necessarily hit the ground running but I could see him growing into a role in our top four as this upcoming season progresses.

Now I know I am saying nice thing about Samberg but I have maintained all along to hedge our bets I would like to see us acquire a veteran #4 LHD man short term. The more guys we have that belong in the top 4 the better.

Great post.

I think that most good NHL Ds are really built around 2 or 3 foundation D, filling in with serviceable D that complement them. In that way, losing Buff and Trouba really created a massive hole in the top 4. Basically, it was losing two effective top pairings, because both players could carry a lesser partner. So I think the Jets need to focus on getting a minimum of 3 top-level D. I think only Morrissey fits that bill, in terms of being able to anchor a top-4 pair. But even Morrissey can get overwhelmed if he has to carry a partner that is incapable of defending effectively. Pionk might get there, but I see him as more of a complementary player on a strong pair. He needs a partner that can help carry the defensive load.

The other issue is something that creates a lot of controversy on this board - size. I'll take an effective small D over an ineffective large D any day, but I think the Jets need more size in the top 4.

I hope that Samberg is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps for the 2nd pair to complement a player like Pionk or Heinola. I like DeMelo, but I'm still not sure he's good enough to anchor a top pairing. Maybe he's enough to create a good pair with Morrissey, but he's not close to Buff in terms of his impact.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Assuming Samberg is going to fix our D problems in his rookie season is a big assumption. Hopefully the kid can handle that kind of pressure.

Assuming he will play 3rd pair is a long way from assuming he will fix our D. He will be a step towards fixing our D. Signing DeMelo will be a bigger one, at least in the short term.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Like I said though I'll believe Stanley isn't going to get his 200 games when he doesn't get his 200 games.

He may get them spread among 2-3 teams over several years.

Edit: Sam Morin was drafted 11 OA, 3 years earlier than Stanley. He has 9 games in the NHL so far.

 

[Whileee]

He may get them spread among 2-3 teams over several years.

Edit: Sam Morin was drafted 11 OA, 3 years earlier than Stanley. He has 9 games in the NHL so far.

He's had a string of serious injuries over the past 4 seasons. He hasn't played much anywhere since 2016/17.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The crazy part about D is for better or worse (as we saw last season) there is larger leveraging in smaller numbers on The D core.

Any team needs 4 legit D to fill out their top four. Last year we had 2 top 4 level D men in Pionk and Morrissey so we really had a top two and a bottom 4 but we decided to mix and match to water down two pair in our top 4. It was a mess.

One guy like Buff leaving completely screwed our situation because he was our #1 and the hole was impossible to fill short term without the cap space.

Conversely adding a solid top 4 asset like DeMelo really helped because he formed 25% of our top 4 and really helped lighten the load for Josh with a legit partner. Samberg doesn’t have to be a savior but if he grows into a #4 this season that would really help Pionk not have to carry the second pair. Samberg or any guy filling that top 4 spot by the math represents 25% of the real estate.

We will still miss Buff but it would be a huge step forward to at least have 4 D men that “belong” in the top 4. Now I am not saying Samberg will necessarily hit the ground running but I could see him growing into a role in our top four as this upcoming season progresses.

Now I know I am saying nice thing about Samberg but I have maintained all along to hedge our bets I would like to see us acquire a veteran #4 LHD man short term. The more guys we have that belong in the top 4 the better.

Yup.

I have maintained all along that Sbisa or Beaulieu can hold the fort at 2LD until Samberg is ready to step up there. We would be better with your short term, legit top 4 guy in there but we still won't be contenders. So it just hurts next year's draft. But the real problem would be getting a player who is a good fit for our needs to sign short term. DeMelo is going to want at least 4 years. Dillon will too. He might settle for 3, being older. Edmundson is going to want at least 5.

Jon Merrill is competent, at least defensively. He hasn't had a 3 year contract since his ELC. He will want 3 years too, might accept 2. He will come cheaper. Pionk won't have to carry him. When Samberg pushes him down, he will play 3rd pair. Heinola can play the right side with him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's had a string of serious injuries over the past 4 seasons. He hasn't played much anywhere since 2016/17.

Your right. Yikes! I vaguely knew he had some injury but a total of 28 games over 3 years is even worse than Green.

 

[ps241]

Great post.

I think that most good NHL Ds are really built around 2 or 3 foundation D, filling in with serviceable D that complement them. In that way, losing Buff and Trouba really created a massive hole in the top 4. Basically, it was losing two effective top pairings, because both players could carry a lesser partner. So I think the Jets need to focus on getting a minimum of 3 top-level D. I think only Morrissey fits that bill, in terms of being able to anchor a top-4 pair. But even Morrissey can get overwhelmed if he has to carry a partner that is incapable of defending effectively. Pionk might get there, but I see him as more of a complementary player on a strong pair. He needs a partner that can help carry the defensive load.

The other issue is something that creates a lot of controversy on this board - size. I'll take an effective small D over an ineffective large D any day, but I think the Jets need more size in the top 4.

I hope that Samberg is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps for the 2nd pair to complement a player like Pionk or Heinola. I like DeMelo, but I'm still not sure he's good enough to anchor a top pairing. Maybe he's enough to create a good pair with Morrissey, but he's not close to Buff in terms of his impact.

Yea I don't disagree on the size issue. I am pretty comfortable with a mixed portfolio, we don't need all big D men but we need size in the mix. Its always tough to quantify but there are the small guys like like Jared Sprugeon (5'9" 170) or Sam Girard (5'9" 170) that are both highly effective in the mix but I don' think it makes sense to overload on the small side.

I am starting to think that with the exodus of Buff we may just need to build a serviceable and more cost effective top 4 with more more depth and more ELC leveraging. 2017-18 iteration of the Jets had an expensive D core with mild leveraging of Morriessy but got way more leveraging off goal scoring forwards Laine and Connor. 2021-22 D "support" of DeMelo, Samberg, Heinola and possibly one of (kovacevic, Gawanke, or Chisholm). Not as dynamic as 2017-18 but as a percentage of Cap it could be really really affordable. Alternatively, if there was a big trade bringing us a clear cut #1 D man that was right handed I would be comfortable with that approach too.

 

[ps241]

Yup.

I have maintained all along that Sbisa or Beaulieu can hold the fort at 2LD until Samberg is ready to step up there. We would be better with your short term, legit top 4 guy in there but we still won't be contenders. So it just hurts next year's draft. But the real problem would be getting a player who is a good fit for our needs to sign short term. DeMelo is going to want at least 4 years. Dillon will too. He might settle for 3, being older. Edmundson is going to want at least 5.

Jon Merrill is competent, at least defensively. He hasn't had a 3 year contract since his ELC. He will want 3 years too, might accept 2. He will come cheaper. Pionk won't have to carry him. When Samberg pushes him down, he will play 3rd pair. Heinola can play the right side with him.

you make some good points.

My hope is that the market is so screwed up this off season that there will be assets available that normally wouldn't be there. Now I realize that is self serving to fit our needs but with teams slashing to meet internal budgets, the flat cap, and Seattle next off season I think something has got to give there is going to be a pretty big squeeze somewhere.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Great post.

I think that most good NHL Ds are really built around 2 or 3 foundation D, filling in with serviceable D that complement them. In that way, losing Buff and Trouba really created a massive hole in the top 4. Basically, it was losing two effective top pairings, because both players could carry a lesser partner. So I think the Jets need to focus on getting a minimum of 3 top-level D. I think only Morrissey fits that bill, in terms of being able to anchor a top-4 pair. But even Morrissey can get overwhelmed if he has to carry a partner that is incapable of defending effectively. Pionk might get there, but I see him as more of a complementary player on a strong pair. He needs a partner that can help carry the defensive load.

The other issue is something that creates a lot of controversy on this board - size. I'll take an effective small D over an ineffective large D any day, but I think the Jets need more size in the top 4.

I hope that Samberg is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps for the 2nd pair to complement a player like Pionk or Heinola. I like DeMelo, but I'm still not sure he's good enough to anchor a top pairing. Maybe he's enough to create a good pair with Morrissey, but he's not close to Buff in terms of his impact.

The other issue is something that creates a lot of controversy on this board - size. I'll take an effective small D over an ineffective large D any day, but I think the Jets need more size in the top 4.

Yes to the quote, but I'll take an effective large D over an ineffective D of any size. And all other things being equal (rare as that is), I will take the bigger guy over the smaller one.

We are not going to get a Buff replacement. Buff was unique.

I agree that DeMelo is less than ideal. But I think he is good enough until something better comes along. 20 lbs heavier would be nice, as long as it didn't diminish his other attributes. I would like to be able to give Morrissey a more intimidating partner. But I don't see one on the horizon. So DeMelo it is, for me.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

you make some good points.

My hope is that the market is so screwed up this off season that there will be assets available that normally wouldn't be there. Now I realize that is self serving to fit our needs but with teams slashing to meet internal budgets, the flat cap, and Seattle next off season I think something has got to give there is going to be a pretty big squeeze somewhere.

I agree there will be some opportunity this year. I'm not sure TNSE is going to be able to take advantage of it. Cap situation is fine but cash flow, not so much.

@surixon did a nice analysis of the situation yesterday that pointed out some mitigating factors on the cash flow front. There might be room to raise that internal cap a little above the level he used and jump in on some.

I will be very happy if we sign DeMelo, Merrill and Beaulieu. With the addition of Samberg, we would have a respectable D corps. Beaulieu and Dahlstrom are in the press box when we are healthy, but both will get games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yea I don't disagree on the size issue. I am pretty comfortable with a mixed portfolio, we don't need all big D men but we need size in the mix. Its always tough to quantify but there are the small guys like like Jared Sprugeon (5'9" 170) or Sam Girard (5'9" 170) that are both highly effective in the mix but I don' think it makes sense to overload on the small side.

I am starting to think that with the exodus of Buff we may just need to build a serviceable and more cost effective top 4 with more more depth and more ELC leveraging. 2017-18 iteration of the Jets had an expensive D core with mild leveraging of Morriessy but got way more leveraging off goal scoring forwards Laine and Connor. 2021-22 D "support" of DeMelo, Samberg, Heinola and possibly one of (kovacevic, Gawanke, or Chisholm). Not as dynamic as 2017-18 but as a percentage of Cap it could be really really affordable. Alternatively, if there was a big trade bringing us a clear cut #1 D man that was right handed I would be comfortable with that approach too.

I don't think anyone is arguing against a mix. Until we get a Samberg into the top 4 all of our top 4 players will be on the small side. None in the 5'9-10 range though. I think Heinola is the shortest of our prospects at 5'11.

It would be ideal, I think to have pairs of 1 smaller and 1 bigger player. But it is about more than just size. If they don't have the skill they are just taking up space.

Stanley would be great on the 3rd pair when/if his defensive play develops. Until then I don't think he belongs in the NHL.

Edit: Misread your post as 'I don't agree on the size issue'. Couldn't quite make sense of the post with that there.

 

[Daximus]

Assuming he will play 3rd pair is a long way from assuming he will fix our D. He will be a step towards fixing our D. Signing DeMelo will be a bigger one, at least in the short term.

I'll be happy if he can step in and play past 9 games without being sent down next year.

 

[Daximus]

He may get them spread among 2-3 teams over several years.

Edit: Sam Morin was drafted 11 OA, 3 years earlier than Stanley. He has 9 games in the NHL so far.

I'm aware but what a prospect has done on another team in no way means that is what will happen with Stanley. I can definitely see him being in the lineup this year. Especially if we aren't expected to do much. I think Stanley will get a chance to prove he can play. I don't agree with it but I don't see the Jets just giving up on an asset that they drafted that high.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'll be happy if he can step in and play past 9 games without being sent down next year.

You're setting the bar low. If he isn't better than that after 3 years in the best NCAA conference (so I'm told), then he is never likely to be more than a #4, at best. Poolman managed 24 games and he was an overager with a weaker NCAA resume.

I agree with you that some people are expecting too much from the rookie. But making 3rd pair on the Jets is not expecting all that much. He needs to beat out Dahlstrom for the job.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm aware but what a prospect has done on another team in no way means that is what will happen with Stanley. I can definitely see him being in the lineup this year. Especially if we aren't expected to do much. I think Stanley will get a chance to prove he can play. I don't agree with it but I don't see the Jets just giving up on an asset that they drafted that high.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But, like I said, he may accumulate those 200 games on 2-3 different teams. I'm still hoping some GM is willing to give us a bit of credit for adding him to a trade package. The longer we wait, the less we get.

 

[surixon]

Maurice likes his big mean dmen so he will absolutely get an injury look or two this coming season. Maurice will probably also see what he wants to see as he did with Chariot and Stuart as well, leading to more games then warranted.

 

[Daximus]

You're setting the bar low. If he isn't better than that after 3 years in the best NCAA conference (so I'm told), then he is never likely to be more than a #4, at best. Poolman managed 24 games and he was an overager with a weaker NCAA resume.

I agree with you that some people are expecting too much from the rookie. But making 3rd pair on the Jets is not expecting all that much. He needs to beat out Dahlstrom for the job.

I'm expecting the Jets to grab some guy in FA. Not sure who yet but I think they will bring in someone so there is some competition.

 

[Whileee]

Maurice likes his big mean dmen so he will absolutely get an injury look or two this coming season. Maurice will probably also see what he wants to see as he did with Chariot and Stuart as well, leading to more games then warranted.

A reminder that Maurice started last season with Heinola, Morrissey and Pionk on his D. Stanley didn't really get a sniff.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm expecting the Jets to grab some guy in FA. Not sure who yet but I think they will bring in someone so there is some competition.

I hope they don't go overboard with that. But even so, 1 guy plays 2nd pair. Doesn't compete with Samberg for 3rd.

Jets are looking at cost cutting, like everybody else. Don't expect any big UFA signings. I think that goes league wide. Guys who played to UFA this year are going to be very disappointed in their offers.