Prospect Info: Logan Brown (C) Part 2

[Cosmix]

I would argue that the least fragile part of our lineup is our young players - Tkachuk, Stützle, Batherson and Norris. I have zero concerns that they'd be affected negatively by having Brown in the lineup. If anything, he'd benefit from being around them.

I also think we're past the point of Dorion and Smith needing to show how much they value hard work. That's all they've talked about for the last 6 months. Message delivered - we know, the players know.

Logan Brown was drafted 5 years ago. We're almost halfway through this season - we have 30 games left - and in those 30 games, one way or another, we have to make a decision on him.

My personal opinion? Based on what he's shown, he won't be an NHL player here. But I wouldn't be confident making that decision without seeing him play at least 20-30 games, in a row, at the NHL level. Maybe he'll surprise everyone and stick. Maybe not. But we need to know.

So I'm not suggesting that Brown should play because he deserves it. I'm suggesting that Brown should play because it's prudent for the organization to evaluate him at the NHL level, one last time, before cutting ties. Even if it's just to confirm what DJ and Dorion suspect - that he can't cut it - he should be playing.

I would rather give Logan Brown an opportunity to play in the NHL with Ottawa this season to see what he can or cannot do, than continue to watch old slow vets who have no future with this team beyond this season (Stepan, Anisimov).

 

[DaveMatthew]

I would rather give Logan Brown an opportunity to play in the NHL with Ottawa this season to see what he can or cannot do, than continue to watch old slow vets who have no future with this team beyond this season (Stepan, Anisimov).

It's interesting how so many people's opinion with the Logan Brown situation, who we've drafted and tried to develop, is that he has to "earn it".

But that doesn't seem to hold true when we acquire young reclamation projects from other teams.

Think of Anthony Duclair. When we traded it for him, he was at rock bottom in his career. Look at these gems:







We traded for him one week after those tweets. And when he got here, did we send him down and make him earn it? No, we put him in the top 6 and on the top PP. He walked right into a top spot, without putting in any work or proving himself, and he rewarded us with 1.5 years of good hockey and has revived his career.

Sometimes you just need an opportunity that you might not "deserve".

 

[PlayersLtd]

I would rather give Logan Brown an opportunity to play in the NHL with Ottawa this season to see what he can or cannot do, than continue to watch old slow vets who have no future with this team beyond this season (Stepan, Anisimov).

Stepan is out for the season so you won't be continuing to watch him. Anisimov, Tierney, Watson et al are there to provide an important stabilizing presence for the team, to insulate the youth. After our losses to Vancouver, the low point of the season, do you honestly think that's a situation where Brown could help? Not a chance. I bring that up because although we're playing better we're still teetering on one or two bad games away from being the laughing stock again.

Simply put, at the NHL level you do not throw out a young, inexperienced lineup to get beaten up night in night out and embarrass themselves. That's how you crush the prospects that are developing well.

So although I agree that Brown should get a shot before being shipped out, we are fragile and it's not a situation to bring him into until he shows he could be part of the solution, not the problem. To suggest he could be a solution guy right now, of course, is foolish. Think of the team, not Logan Brown, and it's easier to grasp.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Simply put, at the NHL level you do not throw out a young, inexperienced lineup to get beaten up night in night out and embarrass themselves. That's how you crush the prospects that are developing well.

This would normally be true. The unfortunate part, though, is that we're getting beaten up night in night out and embarrassing ourselves not because of young, inexperienced players, but because of established players like Gudbranson, Murray, Zaitsev and Tierney.

If Gudbranson icing the puck because he can't take an extra stride and then taking a double minor for high-sticking during the other team's goal celebration doesn't crush our prospects, Logan Brown giving the puck away at the blue line won't either.

 

[PlayersLtd]

It's interesting how so many people's opinion with the Logan Brown situation, who we've drafted and tried to develop, is that he has to "earn it".

But that doesn't seem to hold true when we acquire young reclamation projects from other teams.

Think of Anthony Duclair. When we traded it for him, he was at rock bottom in his career. Look at these gems:







But when he got here, did we send him down and make him earn it? No, we put him in the top 6 and on the top PP. He walked right into a top spot, without putting in any work, and he rewarded us with 1.5 years of good hockey and has revived his career.

Sometimes you just need an opportunity that you might not "deserve".

But he had a career up to that point full of flashes at the NHL level so there was something to go off. I hope the best for him but he caught lightning in a bottle for longer stretches than his career norm, that's about it. Duclair is still in reclamation mode, not proven. He's also playing on one of the best teams in the league who's forward corps is very well built in a low pressure situation.

 

[Cosmix]

Stepan is out for the season so you won't be continuing to watch him. Anisimov, Tierney, Watson et al are there to provide an important stabilizing presence for the team, to insulate the youth. After our losses to Vancouver, the low point of the season, do you honestly think that's a situation where Brown could help? Not a chance. I bring that up because although we're playing better we're still teetering on one or two bad games away from being the laughing stock again.

Simply put, at the NHL level you do not throw out a young, inexperienced lineup to get beaten up night in night out and embarrass themselves. That's how you crush the prospects that are developing well.

So although I agree that Brown should get a shot before being shipped out, we are fragile and it's not a situation to bring him into until he shows he could be part of the solution, not the problem. To suggest he could be a solution guy right now, of course, is foolish. Think of the team, not Logan Brown, and it's easier to grasp.

The team is throwing out old slow vets who are not insulating the young players from anything.

 

[DaveMatthew]

But he had a career up to that point full of flashes at the NHL level so there was something to go off. I hope the best for him but he caught lightning in a bottle for longer stretches than his career norm, that's about it. Duclair is still in reclamation mode, not proven. He's also playing on one of the best teams in the league who's forward corps is very well built in a low pressure situation.

My point is not that Duclair is a great player.

My point is that the narrative which says "a young player needs to earn ice-time and beat someone out of a job" is bogus if it doesn't apply to everyone, and it doesn't. Duclair didn't earn anything and was given a shot, and that was the right call.

Duclair got an opportunity, despite tons of red flags, because he had raw talent. Brown is the same.

You can't hold one guy to a different standard than another.

 

[PlayersLtd]

My point is not that Duclair is a great player.

My point is that the narrative which says "a young player needs to earn ice-time and beat someone out of a job" is bogus if it doesn't apply to everyone, and it doesn't. Duclair didn't earn anything and was given a shot, and that was the right call.

Duclair got an opportunity, despite tons of red flags, because he had raw talent. Brown is the same.

You can't hold one guy to a different standard than another.

I mean I get it and don't want to split hairs but Duclair came in and impressed at training camp from day 1. Sure we gave him that 2nd (or 7th???) chance by signing him but from there he played his way on to the team and up the lineup.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I mean I get it and don't want to split hairs but Duclair came in and impressed at training camp from day 1. Sure we gave him that 2nd (or 7th???) chance by signing him but from there he played his way on to the team and up the lineup.

We traded for Duclair a week after John Tortorella said he “didn’t know how to play hockey” and put him right onto a scoring line and the PP. This was in the middle of the season, before he impressed anyone anywhere.

There was no playing himself onto the team in camp.

He was able to impress because we gave him a chance that, quite frankly, he didn’t deserve at the time.

 

[JD1]

might be something to this

You really should stop quoting Graeme

 

[JD1]

Keeping him in the AHL, at this point, serves no purpose.

Well, I'd think the purpose it's serving is keeping him out of the NHL

 

[PlayersLtd]

We traded for Duclair a week after John Tortorella said he “didn’t know how to play hockey” and put him right onto a scoring line and the PP. This was in the middle of the season, before he impressed anyone anywhere.

There was no playing himself onto the team in camp.

He was able to impress because we gave him a chance that, quite frankly, he didn’t deserve at the time.

My bad. However we drop players into situations based on what the GM and Coach are able to assess. It's fair to say they saw something in Duke and don't see the same in Brown, (all things being equal, which they aren't). I don't believe Dorion is holding a grudge or being irresponsible with him, I believe he is trying to get Brown to make the decision easy and is also factoring the environment and system he would be coming into.

This all also might be best for Logan Brown. Who knows until it unfolds but if Brown comes in and excels does the team get any credit for how it was managed or will we all automatically say I told you so?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Well, I'd think the purpose it's serving is keeping him out of the NHL

Keeping him in the AHL for the rest of this season won't help him develop, and it won't help Dorion properly evaluate whether we should keep him or cut bait in the summer. Calling him up won't impact what's already, without a doubt, the worst defensive team in the NHL.

It serves no purpose.

 

[DaveMatthew]

My bad. However we drop players into situations based on what the GM and Coach are able to assess. It's fair to say they saw something in Duke and don't see the same in Brown, (all things being equal, which they aren't).

And it's fair to say that many people see something in Brown that Dorion and Smith don't. At the end of the day, we'll see who's right. Fans have been wrong a lot. But so has Dorion.

Anyway, acting like we can't call up Brown because he doesn't deserve it and "what kind of message would it send to the kids??!!" is complete hogwash.

We've played, and will continue to play, lots of players who didn't, and aren't, earning it. The NHL isn't a complete meritocracy, despite what DJ wants you to believe.

 

[Korpse]

All he has to do is compete, I don't why that's an issue. There's plenty of other players who are willing to compete if he isn't. He probably would be with the team already if he choose to play with a little effort.

 

[OD99]

Despite all of his tools Brown isn't going to dominate with little talent around him.

He would look much better in the NHL and even from a PR standpoint the team should bring him up. At least we fans can be fed humble pie if he proves he isn't an NHLer.

If he proves he belongs then we either keep him or have a far more valuable asset. I hope they follow through and get him in the lineup after the road trip.

 

[DaveMatthew]

All he has to do is compete, I don't why that's an issue. There's plenty of other players who are willing to compete if he isn't. He probably would be with the team already if he choose to play with a little effort.

These are words that mean nothing. It sounds like DJ justifying Erik Gudbranson's terrible games by saying he's "hard to play against".

"Logan Brown shouldn't be in the NHL because his porous defensive game doesn't make up for his offence, and he's too slow."

Say that. That's a reason.

"Logan Brown shouldn't be in the NHL because he doesn't compete" is a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Korpse]

These are words that mean nothing. It sounds like DJ justifying Erik Gudbranson's terrible games by saying he's "hard to play against".

"Logan Brown shouldn't be in the NHL because his porous defensive game doesn't make up for his offence, and he's too slow."

Say that. That's a reason.

"Logan Brown shouldn't be in the NHL because he doesn't compete" is a whole lot of nothing.

It says a lot. If you aren't competing, you aren't contributing. Players are expected the play a certain way, if you can't be bothered to impede an oncoming attack you are no help to anyone. If you aren't willing to get up the ice and be apart of the attack you are no help to anyone. Skill will only take you so far. At a certain level most players are pretty close to your skill level but everyone will outplay you if you aren't willing to put in the work.

I believe in Brown, I've made that clear but I've been disappointed with his effort level to this point in the season. He's making steps in the right direction. It's pretty clear why he isn't with Ottawa at the moment and if he doesn't get his chance, there's really only one person responsible for that.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

It would be easy to say that Logan Brown's apparent lack of effort comes from being the son of a millionaire ex-NHLer, but the Tkachuk bros come from an even more famous millionaire ex-NHLer and they compete probably more than any other player in the league every single night

Either way, a 6'6 centre with his skill/vision should be given every opportunity to make the team in this trash heap of a season. At least call him up and give him 4th line minutes and 2nd pp time before you trade him for a 3rd rounder

 

[Korpse]

It would be easy to say that Logan Brown's apparent lack of effort comes from being the son of a millionaire ex-NHLer, but the Tkachuk bros come from an even more famous millionaire ex-NHLer and they compete probably more than any other player in the league every single night

Either way, a 6'6 centre with his skill/vision should be given every opportunity to make the team in this trash heap of a season. At least call him up and give him 4th line minutes and 2nd pp time before you trade him for a 3rd rounder

The opportunity is there.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Logan brown played nearly 85 very strong AHL games. Not sure why these 5 carry such importance.

 

[Icelevel]

Logan brown played nearly 85 very strong AHL games. Not sure why these 5 carry such importance.

And a Good game today

 

[Ice-Tray]

I see people posting in here about things they think don’t matter to the players and team in general, even though players tell us that these things matter to them all the time.

Reading and parroting each other’s tweets and ignoring what coaches and players say doesn’t really make Brown seem a more sympathetic character.

To me it looks like they’re giving the guy every chance to crack the team by showing a reasonable amount of effort to his game, because they would love for him to be an awesome NHL player. But you can’t really knock the team if they are handling Brown appropriately, so a new narrative is necessary.

Guys are rushed or held back in here depending on which is the hammer.

 

[JD1]

Keeping him in the AHL for the rest of this season won't help him develop, and it won't help Dorion properly evaluate whether we should keep him or cut bait in the summer. Calling him up won't impact what's already, without a doubt, the worst defensive team in the NHL.

It serves no purpose.

So going back to the summer of 2019, being the optimist that I am, I was on the boards here arguing that Brown should be ready....middle 1st rounder, d+4 season, says he's in great condition blah blah blah....and then I saw him play last season, pre season and reg season, probably 5 times. Seeing him I knew right away he wasn't ready to compete in prime time, his own statements about being in shape notwithstanding. He's very talented but the NHL is about a lot more than talent

Since then he's posted some small sample size good AHL numbers and managed to injure himself twice

I think we all want him to be successful but it just hasn't happened yet and may never. If it doesn't i don't think it's fair to say it's on the team's handling.

I haven't seen him play live since fall of 19, whenever he got sent down. But anyone in the industry that has seen him play has said he's not ready. If there were media types or minor league coaches watching him and saying that he's ready, I'd be concerned why he's not here, but that's not the case

 

[Tuna99]

So going back to the summer of 2019, being the optimist that I am, I was on the boards here arguing that Brown should be ready....middle 1st rounder, d+4 season, says he's in great condition blah blah blah....and then I saw him play last season, pre season and reg season, probably 5 times. Seeing him I knew right away he wasn't ready to compete in prime time, his own statements about being in shape notwithstanding. He's very talented but the NHL is about a lot more than talent

Since then he's posted some small sample size good AHL numbers and managed to injure himself twice

I think we all want him to be successful but it just hasn't happened yet and may never. If it doesn't i don't think it's fair to say it's on the team's handling.

I haven't seen him play live since fall of 19, whenever he got sent down. But anyone in the industry that has seen him play has said he's not ready. If there were media types or minor league coaches watching him and saying that he's ready, I'd be concerned why he's not here, but that's not the case

they should do the Pascal Leclair test, call him up and just sit him on the bench for a game no Minutes played - if he doesn’t take puck to the face, play him. If he does take a puck to the face, trade him