John Moore for three more years
But when your worst contract is less than 3 mil a year it could be much worse.
List your Team's Bad Contracts
- Thread starter FreeMcdavid
- Start date
John Moore for three more years
But when your worst contract is less than 3 mil a year it could be much worse.
He's 1 step up from Johnny Hockey. Marner when he doesn't have space for the puck is pretty useless out there, unless it's the PK. He got thrown around in the CBJ series like the football gets thrown around by Tommy Wiseau in "The Room"That's not even close to accurate.
While Marner is overpaid, his contract is not "bad" IMO. I personally use a criterion that is based on value: if the player with said contract has negative trade value, then it's a bad contract.
Of course we can't know the trade values of each player, so this is hypothetical. But this is the first question that I ask from myself: would any team accept a trade of [said player] for "future considerations"? If my answer would be no, then it's a bad contract.
That said, I don't think the Jets have bad contracts. Wheeler is overpaid (given that the deal is 4 more years) but not bad. Perreault might classify at 4.125M but he's only got 1 year left. Little got too much money/term, but it seems like he'll be LTIR'd for a long time and we don't know what kind of a player he will be when he returns - if ever.
Of course we can't know the trade values of each player, so this is hypothetical. But this is the first question that I ask from myself: would any team accept a trade of [said player] for "future considerations"? If my answer would be no, then it's a bad contract.
That said, I don't think the Jets have bad contracts. Wheeler is overpaid (given that the deal is 4 more years) but not bad. Perreault might classify at 4.125M but he's only got 1 year left. Little got too much money/term, but it seems like he'll be LTIR'd for a long time and we don't know what kind of a player he will be when he returns - if ever.
The Hockey Tonk Man
Registered User
2023FriendshipTour
Flams
Zuccarello four more years at 6M. Fenton....lizard...you all know the story. Overpaid by 2M, though that number could go up.
Parise. Five more years at 7.5. Not as bad as it sounds. Scored 25 in a shortened year, and is only paid 10M in actual cash after next season, which will be prorated due to it being shortened. Still sucks for the AAV, and the potential for cap recapture penalties. Overpaid by 1-1.5M or so, but that number might will go up. He is better since his discetomy.
Vic Rask. 2 more years at 4M. He can actually be a NHL player, and flashes some skill on occasion, but in general, plays smaller than his size, is passive, and has mediocre speed. Overpaid by 2M.
Suter is fine and is worth the money.
Spurgeon is fine and worth the money.
Parise. Five more years at 7.5. Not as bad as it sounds. Scored 25 in a shortened year, and is only paid 10M in actual cash after next season, which will be prorated due to it being shortened. Still sucks for the AAV, and the potential for cap recapture penalties. Overpaid by 1-1.5M or so, but that number might will go up. He is better since his discetomy.
Vic Rask. 2 more years at 4M. He can actually be a NHL player, and flashes some skill on occasion, but in general, plays smaller than his size, is passive, and has mediocre speed. Overpaid by 2M.
Suter is fine and is worth the money.
Spurgeon is fine and worth the money.
Last edited:
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
- 12,929
- 9,859
Marner is unquestionably overpaid. Dekes for days is literally the only person I’ve ever encountered (both online and real life) who argues differently. So other than one fan, there is league wide consensus on that one.
But I also think Matthews is overpaid. He’s clearly very good, but it’s a horrible term at that aav based on comparables at time of signing.
But I also think Matthews is overpaid. He’s clearly very good, but it’s a horrible term at that aav based on comparables at time of signing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Aceboogie
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2012
- 32,649
- 3,896
Oilers:
Neal- worst contract- but produced well. Longer term it doesnt look good
Russell- but over soon
Koskinen- overpaid alot at the time, but actually played up to the contract level last year
Kassian- smaller overpay but still not a shrewd move
Smith- not an NHL caliber goalie
Oilers have more smaller overpays
Neal- worst contract- but produced well. Longer term it doesnt look good
Russell- but over soon
Koskinen- overpaid alot at the time, but actually played up to the contract level last year
Kassian- smaller overpay but still not a shrewd move
Smith- not an NHL caliber goalie
Oilers have more smaller overpays
That really just shows that you didn't watch the series. It wasn't his best series, but he didn't get "thrown around" at all. People love to put an overemphasis on playoff production, but it just leads to wildly incorrect conclusions when you ignore all of the context necessary to evaluate players based on small samples against unique opponents. Marner actually leads his team in point production in the playoffs since entering the league. He is not a "bad contract".
I watched lol. He literally went down like a sack of potatoes in board battles at will
I agree with you that the notion that Marner isn’t a good playoff performer is not accurate. 21 points in 25 games Iv watched every playoff game he’s ever played and he often looks like the best player on the ice. But Dubas did overpay him. He could have got him for 9.5, he had all the leverage, Marner might have missed the first month of the season but there’s no way he would have gone to Europe over only being offered 9.5 when Rantanen signed for 9.25. You are supposed to get your RFAs signed to big time steals. That said, Marner is still very valuable at his current contract so it’s not a bad contract it’s just one that should have been better and one that Dubas deserves some criticism for.That's not even close to accurate.
CRIPPLING. Untrade-able. While any team would love to have either Suter or Parise, none would take them anywhere remotely close to their contracts. Those other guys, whatever you think of them, at least have some semblance of value relative to their contracts.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
- 25,184
- 9,437
The Brent Seabrook contract literally ended a dynasty the day it was signed.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
Not a leafs fan. Marners contract is bad in the sense it's too much.
But if leafs traded him he has positive trade value and 20+ teams would be trying to get him.
Therefore not a bad contract.
But if leafs traded him he has positive trade value and 20+ teams would be trying to get him.
Therefore not a bad contract.
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
I imagine Tanev being a bad fit for the Flames. So bad that there are too many proposals of it and everybody is convinced he's done. Until he's with a new team he finds his groove and isn't that bad.
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
- 6,136
Correct. Most of it paid out early too. Wouldn't say Toronto has any bad contracts.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
I imagine if he ever gets traded retention will happen.
However I believe most teams who take on contracts like that are looking to win and have some cap issues. The hull would be huge though.
Example though smaller scale. Phil Kessel traded twice both times retention occured
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
- 6,136
Perfect fit for a budget team. High cap, low salary, one of league's premier wingers and playmakers.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
The jersey ad still sucks
- Mar 4, 2004
- 28,685
- 27,207
It makes me so happy that for a change I couldn't come up with a handful of bad contracts on the Wings.
Really the only one left is Nielsen now that Yzerman bought out Abdelkader.
Red Wings
Nielsen
$5.25 million for 2 more years.
Really the only one left is Nielsen now that Yzerman bought out Abdelkader.
Red Wings
Nielsen
$5.25 million for 2 more years.
Falco Lombardi
Registered User
Justin Faulk 6.5 x 7
Torey Krug 6.5 x 7
Not too many but the two we have are absolutely atrocious
Torey Krug 6.5 x 7
Not too many but the two we have are absolutely atrocious
There is no such thing as having all of the leverage when it involves your best players. These are the players that drive a lot of the success on your team. These are players that can be given contracts by other teams, and in Marner's case, that's exactly what was reported to happen. These are players that are actually worth their offer sheet compensation amounts.
Literally nobody was ever getting Marner at 9.5m on a 6 year term. Marner was a much better player than Rantanen, and Marner was well aware of that fact. I get that some people here refuse to look further into anything than raw points with absolutely zero context (and thus overrate Rantanen (and in many cases, early cap era comparables like Kane) massively in comparison due to his ridiculous amounts of PP time in favourable situations), but the people involved in multi-million dollar contract negotiations in the NHL look at more than that. Do people honestly think negotiations consist entirely of looking up raw points on NHL.com and a corresponding chart?
Marner fits within his current and historical post-ELC comparables. No other GM is getting a different result, and waiting until a month in wouldn't have lowered the ask, but would have really risked offer sheets, and would have made everything more difficult with how the cap works with signing players mid-season. Not to mention that Marner is a massive part of the team and it would be severely hurting the team's season and the relationship for inconsequential amounts of money.
Care to provide some examples? Also I don’t think there was a threat of offer sheets because teams know that in order for the Leafs to not match it would have to be an overpayment and the compensation would have been 4 first round picks. You think teams would have been willing to give up 4 first round picks and overpay Marner?
Last edited:
Yes. Also, if it went into the season, because of the rules of in-season signings and how it affects cap hits, Leafs would have struggled to fit Marner more and more by the day, limiting the amount of overpayment an offer sheet would need to be to steal him.
I personally think Rantanen and Kane were probably the closest cap-era comparables he had. Even though Marner was better, they are the same position, similar style of play, similar ages, similar terms, etc.
Marner: 10.9m x 6 years
Rantanen: 9.25m x 6 years
Kane: 9.0m x 5 years (likely 9.6m-9.7m range on 6 year term)
Pre-signing period:
ES Points/60
Marner: 2.45
Kane: 2.03
Rantanen: 1.95
ES Primary points/60
Marner: 1.97
Kane: 1.50
Rantanen: 1.41
ES Goals/60
Marner: 0.80
Rantanen: 0.69
Kane: 0.68
PP Points/60
Marner: 7.19
Rantanen: 5.78
Kane: 5.67
PP Primary points/60
Marner: 4.69
Kane: 4.21
Rantanen: 4.15
PP Goals/60
Rantanen: 2.37
Kane: 1.70
Marner: 1.56
Marner also had the best single season of these players, and one of the best pre-signing seasons in the history of post-ELC contracts in the cap era.
Marner also PKed, while the other two did not.
Marner also didn't get to play with somebody like Mackinnon (or even Toews) for the majority of his sample, and in 2 of his 3 years, did not get to play with the team's best players on his PP unit.
Without even getting into the other positions, it's interesting how we have had high-end post-ELC winger contracts like Kovalchuk (13.4m x 5 years), Vanek (11.6m x 7 years), Nash (11.3m x 5 years), and Heatley (9.4m x 3 years), all of whom got worse contracts relative to the player they were, and yet Marner's contract specifically seems to get unprecedented criticism.
I get that some people will never change their minds, no matter how much overwhelming evidence there is, but even under the incorrect assumption that Marner was overpaid, that in no way makes him a "bad contract". He brings massive on-ice and market value, and there is little to no risk with his contract taking him through his prime.
