Signing(s): Lions and Matt Stafford agree to 5 year deal worth 135 mil (27 mil per)

[CupofOil]

Who gives a **** about your arbitrary definition of what constitutes "carrying a team", as if that was some sort of measurable thing that anyone should take seriously. These types of conversations always involve moving goalposts. You wanted statistics, I gave you statistics. It's not my fault if you don't accept what they plainly lay out.

Ok, lets calm down a bit. I'll explain my "carrying a team" stance in a bit.
Also, your handpicked stats you showed don't show that Newton is clearly better than Stafford.

The reason why I mentioned role and carrying a team is because Stafford has been asked to pass a lot more because the Lions haven't had any semblance of a running game in his career and a porous defense outside of a few seasons that constantly puts the Lions behind in games forcing Stafford to throw more whereas Newton has been asked to be more of a game manager so he hasn't been asked to pass as much. Cam has had a better supporting cast in regards to running game and defense, flat out.
Sorry if that bothers you but role plays a factor here which is why I said before, it's hard to compare the two.

Stafford has put up bigger numbers but he also gets more opportunity to put up bigger numbers. Both have had issues with consistency, each had one great season, a bunch of good seasons and a few mediocre seasons.

All I'm saying is that I don't see any evidence that shows me that Cam is clearly better than Stafford in any metric outside of rushing TDs. Both are in that category of good but not elite.

 

[What the Faulk]

They count for your team just as much as any other TD. Which is why Cam isn't a better player because he is given those opportunities to pad his stats.


I also like that you pick out a stat that highlights sack yardage. It's almost like offensive line is a big influence on that stat and the only reason Cam has had ONE good year is because he had an absolutely dominate offensive line. This stat and video can show you that

You know Carolina, the team known for having a great offensive line.

Ok, lets calm down a bit. I'll explain my "carrying a team" stance in a bit.
Also, your handpicked stats you showed don't show that Newton is clearly better than Stafford.

The reason why I mentioned role and carrying a team is because Stafford has been asked to pass a lot more because the Lions haven't had any semblance of a running game in his career and a porous defense outside of a few seasons that constantly puts the Lions behind in games forcing Stafford to throw more whereas Newton has been asked to be more of a game manager so he hasn't been asked to pass as much. Cam has had a better supporting cast in regards to running game and defense, flat out.
Sorry if that bothers you but role plays a factor here which is why I said before, it's hard to compare the two.

Stafford has put up bigger numbers but he also gets more opportunity to put up bigger numbers. Both have had issues with consistency, each had one great season, a bunch of good seasons and a few mediocre seasons.

All I'm saying is that I don't see any evidence that shows me that Cam is clearly better than Stafford in any metric outside of rushing TDs. Both are in that category of good but not elite.

I'll let you know when Carolina gets a Calvin Johnson where the QB can just chuck it into triple coverage and have him come down with the ball more often than not.

 

[CupofOil]

I'll let you know when Carolina gets a Calvin Johnson where the QB can just chuck it into triple coverage and have him come down with the ball more often than not.

He had arguably the best year of his career last year especially before the broken finger without Calvin so....

 

[Gene Parmesan]

And Cam is the reason the Carolina run game is effective. His ball handling and decision making make it work. Its not as if Carolina lines up in an I formation. Its out of shotgun, with motion and mesh points that require quick recognition.

 

[izlez]

You know Carolina, the team known for having a great offensive line.

How many of those plays does he have several seconds of a clean pocket, throwing to a receiver of 5+ yards separation? A lot.

Good luck having that your whole career (and good luck to Dak with that too)

 

[What the Faulk]

He had arguably the best year of his career last year especially before the broken finger without Calvin so....

Right, and that's why I would have picked him as my MVP if we were going by the actual definition of the award.

And Cam is the reason the Carolina run game is effective. His ball handling and decision making make it work. Its not as if Carolina lines up in an I formation. Its out of shotgun, with motion and mesh points that require quick recognition.

Exactly. As a pure passer? I'd put several more QBs over him than I currently do. But his value goes beyond just the ability to throw the ball. To chalk it all up to "goal line carries" is laughable.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Cam still has issues with consistent ball placement on certain routes. He always will. He also makes impossible throws with defenders in his face with incredible precision.

 

[CupofOil]

Right, and that's why I would have picked him as my MVP if we were going by the actual definition of the award.

Exactly which is why I said before that he carries such a heavy load for that team. No running game, all the dropped passes, a defense that could NEVER make a big stop. Stafford was the Lions last season, rarely have I seen such a one man show in the NFL. Rodgers is in that category as well albeit playing at a much higher level.

Anyway, it's really hard to compare Newton and Stafford because they play vastly different roles for their respective teams. Nobody really compares to Cam in that respect, he's a unique talent.

 

[Bonzai12]

Debating "Quarterback X is better than Quarterback Y" - since 1983......

 

[Reality Check]

Which would be incredibly dumb.

It's also why I don't bother listening to local sports talk radio on a regular basis. You can just feel yourself becoming dumber.

I would also agree that Luck is better than Stafford. However, if Luck can't stay healthy and continues to sputter, then I might have to change my mind.

 

[darko]

Yikes

 

[tacogeoff]

Exactly which is why I said before that he carries such a heavy load for that team. No running game, all the dropped passes, a defense that could NEVER make a big stop. Stafford was the Lions last season, rarely have I seen such a one man show in the NFL. Rodgers is in that category as well albeit playing at a much higher level.

Anyway, it's really hard to compare Newton and Stafford because they play vastly different roles for their respective teams. Nobody really compares to Cam in that respect, he's a unique talent.

to add some perspective how bad the Lions run game has been:

In the 103 games Stafford has played the Lions have only had 7 individual 100 yard rushing games.

 

[izlez]

So I thought this would be an interesting discussion to revisit, and I'm guessing both sides will try to argue they are right.


Stafford, again, finished probably in the 5-10 range of "best" quarterbacks this year.

I'm sure people will say "see, you don't pay a top 5-10 QB that money"

But I'll point out, that even with the benefit of viewing them play seasons in the NFL (as opposed to a rookie, the most likely spot to get a replacement), people were really bad at identifying exactly WHICH QB's they would rather pay than Stafford:
Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Cam Newton....Andrew Luck
All had worse seasons than Stafford.

Same thing a few years ago:
People said why hold on to Stafford when you can just easily grab a guy like Flacco or Dalton.
How did that turn out?


So, what do you think of the contract 1 year later?

 

[What the Faulk]

I think the team I cheer for made the playoffs on the strength of their effective QB while Matthew Stafford shit the bed against the f***ing Bengals.

 

[Baxterman]

As a Lions fan I am fine with the contract. Right now QB might be the only area of the organization that I am actually happy with.

Some idiots might look and say something stupid like "Stafford shit the bed against the f***ing Bengals" but people who actually watch the games understand that he had zero responsibility for the Lions missing the play-offs and was the sole reason that they were even close to making it.

It is a big contract but it isn't stopping them from acquiring talent in other areas because of financial constraints and their chances of getting a better QB are slim to none. The chances that they get a cheaper QB and use the money saved to add talent and have a better team are even less.

 

[Voight]

So I thought this would be an interesting discussion to revisit, and I'm guessing both sides will try to argue they are right.


Stafford, again, finished probably in the 5-10 range of "best" quarterbacks this year.

I'm sure people will say "see, you don't pay a top 5-10 QB that money"

But I'll point out, that even with the benefit of viewing them play seasons in the NFL (as opposed to a rookie, the most likely spot to get a replacement), people were really bad at identifying exactly WHICH QB's they would rather pay than Stafford:
Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Cam Newton....Andrew Luck
All had worse seasons than Stafford.

Same thing a few years ago:
People said why hold on to Stafford when you can just easily grab a guy like Flacco or Dalton.
How did that turn out?


So, what do you think of the contract 1 year later?

The thing is, you do pay a 5-10 QB that money. Because in a QB dependent league, if your team doesn't want to pay you the same or more than the other guys, someone else gladly will. Its why the biggest contract trophy has gone from Rodgers, to Flacco, to Wilson, to Luck, to Carr and now Stafford. With Ryan and Rodgers right behind them, within the next 12 months. Then Winston, Wentz etc.

As a Lions fan I am fine with the contract. Right now QB might be the only area of the organization that I am actually happy with.

Some idiots might look and say something stupid like "Stafford **** the bed against the ****ing Bengals" but people who actually watch the games understand that he had zero responsibility for the Lions missing the play-offs and was the sole reason that they were even close to making it.

It is a big contract but it isn't stopping them from acquiring talent in other areas because of financial constraints and their chances of getting a better QB are slim to none. The chances that they get a cheaper QB and use the money saved to add talent and have a better team are even less.

People don't realize the Lions would not come anywhere near the playoffs if they didn't have Stafford. He unfairly gets all of the criticism when he does his best, he brought them from 0-16 to at least being in the playoff discussion every season. It also didn't help his star tackle left in free agency and his star WR retired early.

 

[Trap Jesus]

With contracts going up over the years, any good QB that has proven anything in the league will end up getting record-breaking deals. That's basically how it works now. Stafford has definitely proven himself in this league and is deserving of that contract. Not every team can have a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, Stafford's deal is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Square Hammer*]

I wish the Jaguars had a QB like Stafford.

 

[fin8]

He’s a great QB. He never gets help from the running game. Probably worst in the league for run support. Fix that, get a good coaching staff, and he should shine.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don’t understand anyone that hates staffords play. Guy should be doing trash every game with a terrible oline and no running game. Yet he’s still putting up elite numbers

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

I wish the Jaguars had a QB like Stafford.

They wouldn't have close to the level of defense then.