Speculation: Lineys for Whitey.

[ijif]

Yeah IMO this could be moved to Colin White's thread. I mena, if we have 2-3 threads for every player, then the threads list really gets too crowded.



Looks like he fell to 21st OA (from Elite Prospects)

2015 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #19 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
2015 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #15 by ISS HOCKEY
2015 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #19 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
2015 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #29 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters
2015 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #16 by TSN/McKenzie

While I respect the opinion of NHL scouts, Colin White's USHL production is not really what I am looking for with pick 21.

 

[Masked]

While I respect the opinion of NHL scouts, Colin White's USHL production is not really what I am looking for with pick 21.

That's why scouts, real scouts not online wannabes, look at more than just the stats.

 

[ijif]

That's why scouts, real scouts not online wannabes, look at more than just the stats.

I only look at spreadsheets, but maybe I’ll watch the games at some point, like the real scouts.

 

[Boud]

I can’t say we should have selected Konecny, but White should not have been selected where he was selected (based on information at the time of the draft).

At that time White was going to be drafted right where he was drafted. In fact he was considered a 12-15 pick before he had mono and other injuries and missed a chunk of that season. White's numbers are misleading because he wasn't used in a scoring role either, he was used as a shutdown center and he was really good at it at that time amongst his peers. The projection for him was a 50-60 point shutdown C but it didn't work out that way. At least not right now.

Considering the depth of that draft and the fact that he had missed some time due to mono it was expected that he slip a bit but he was taken right where he was supposed to at that time.

I'm still pretty much convinced White would be better on the wing full time. He doesn't play like a center to me. Problem is we are already pretty much set on the RW for the next couple years. Would not surprise me if he's traded ... Or if they try at least. That contract ain't pretty.

 

[Sweatred]

At that time White was going to be drafted right where he was drafted. In fact he was considered a 12-15 pick before he had mono and other injuries and missed a chunk of that season. White's numbers are misleading because he wasn't used in a scoring role either, he was used as a shutdown center and he was really good at it at that time amongst his peers. The projection for him was a 50-60 point shutdown C but it didn't work out that way. At least not right now.

Considering the depth of that draft and the fact that he had missed some time due to mono it was expected that he slip a bit but he was taken right where he was supposed to at that time.

I'm still pretty much convinced White would be better on the wing full time. He doesn't play like a center to me. Problem is we are already pretty much set on the RW for the next couple years. Would not surprise me if he's traded ... Or if they try at least. That contract ain't pretty.

I agree, Batherson is quickly emerging as the 1RW and DAdonov will hold 2RW for at least 1-2 years. Brown is signed for 3 years and will probably hold the 3RW spot.

The only real spot on RW is maybe the 4th line but guys like Watson offer decent value at $1.5 vs Whites $4.75.

 

[Xspyrit]

While I respect the opinion of NHL scouts, Colin White's USHL production is not really what I am looking for with pick 21.

That's not only NHL scouts though. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, just reporting the facts of how White was perceived for this draft class.

Oh and if stats BEFORE the draft are really that important, then you don't draft Pinto, Formenton, Batherson, etc. It's all about what a team project a young player to become. No team should draft for what the player is at the moment of the draft, but a few years down the road.

At that time White was going to be drafted right where he was drafted. In fact he was considered a 12-15 pick before he had mono and other injuries and missed a chunk of that season. White's numbers are misleading because he wasn't used in a scoring role either, he was used as a shutdown center and he was really good at it at that time amongst his peers. The projection for him was a 50-60 point shutdown C but it didn't work out that way. At least not right now.

Considering the depth of that draft and the fact that he had missed some time due to mono it was expected that he slip a bit but he was taken right where he was supposed to at that time.

I'm still pretty much convinced White would be better on the wing full time. He doesn't play like a center to me. Problem is we are already pretty much set on the RW for the next couple years. Would not surprise me if he's traded ... Or if they try at least. That contract ain't pretty.

The only position that doesn't seem massively log jammed for the next few years is RD. Even LW (Tkachuk, Formenton, Stutzle ++++) looks massively jammed for example.

I mean, it's great to have so much depht but it will put us in a position where we could make costly mistakes and keep the "wrong guy". I dunno, for example, Logan Brown "doesn't make it" and then turns out to be a 60+ pts center on another team.

IMO, that kind of stuff will happen, the Zibanejad way (hopefully nowhere near as bad!)

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

While I respect the opinion of NHL scouts, Colin White's USHL production is not really what I am looking for with pick 21.

Yeah, but his production as a freshman in the NCAA probably is. (I understand this happened AFTER we picked him, but make the point simply to illustrate that there is some evidence of offensive production there.)

 

[Sweatred]

I only look at spreadsheets, but maybe I’ll watch the games at some point, like the real scouts.

Neither was his AHL production -

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah, but his production as a freshman in the NCAA probably is. (I understand this happened AFTER we picked him, but make the point simply to illustrate that there is some evidence of offensive production there.)

Yeah it was seen as a great pick after that freshman year.

I didn’t like the puck when it was made. Those hands, that production. Going 21 overall in THAT draft?
But then he started to prove some doubters wrong but now we are here he’s trying to rediscover his game.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

Yeah it was seen as a great pick after that freshman year.

I didn’t like the puck when it was made. Those hands, that production. Going 21 overall in THAT draft?
But then he started to prove some doubters wrong but now we are here he’s trying to rediscover his game.

He had a good first year, a sophomore slump, and now he is being screwed by an imbecile coaching staff.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He had a good first year, a sophomore slump, and now he is being screwed by an imbecile coaching staff.

Lol he was out there quite a bit last year.

 

[Sweatred]

Lol he was out there quite a bit last year.

overplaying him last year for 60+ games didn’t accomplished anything ... now we’re trying something else and the fanboys scream.

I like where it’s going. He was more physical vs the leafs than he’s ever been. If he continues on that path and improves his puck handling he can work his way into the top 12 and possibly top 9 down the road. He was credit with 2 hits which is a decent start. A 21 year old Norris will probably average 1.75-2 HPG this year.

It will be really hard for him to outplay what can be obtained for <$3 million on the open market and avoid getting bought out.

 

[Alex1234]

21st OA pick
21st in points for 2015 draft

So not a bust.....yet

I think that his massive contract played with his head a bit
Not sure it was the right decision even if it helped Chabot a lot to sign here
Time is running for him if you can't deloge Anisimov from the line up
We need the best Colin White he can be

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

21st OA pick
21st in points for 2015 draft

So not a bust.....yet

I think that his massive contract played with his head a bit
Not sure it was the right decision even if it helped Chabot a lot to sign here
Time is running for him if you can't deloge Anisimov from the line up
We need the best Colin White he can be

Only an idiot would play a complete non entity like Anisimov over Brown or White.

 

[Sweatred]

Only an idiot would play a complete non entity like Anisimov over Brown or White.

So simple minded. So much more to player development than lawn mowing 11 minutes of playing time.

You make it sound like DJ has “no clue” what he is doing.... the reality is “you have no clue” what DJ is doing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Has anyone of you ever hurt your groin playing hockey? Probably not I would guess. Too much time on da spreadsheets here. White will be a fine #2-3 centre for you for many years getting 50+ pts per year. It takes time to fully recover and then it takes time to get back to prime skating condition and then finally game condition. My guess give him another 2 months and he should be fine.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Has anyone of you ever hurt your groin playing hockey? Probably not I would guess. Too much time on da spreadsheets here. White will be a fine #2-3 centre for you for many years getting 50+ pts per year. It takes time to fully recover and then it takes time to get back to prime skating condition and then finally game condition. My guess give him another 2 months and he should be fine.

I did hurt mine about 10 years ago in a game and it has never been quite the same since. I also started suffering from back pain on the same side about 6 or 7 years ago, and I really believe compensating for the groin caused that.

Now, I was in my 40's when it happened... not sure any aspect of my experience is applicable to a guy in his early 20's.

 

[Sweatred]

Has anyone of you ever hurt your groin playing hockey? Probably not I would guess. Too much time on da spreadsheets here. White will be a fine #2-3 centre for you for many years getting 50+ pts per year. It takes time to fully recover and then it takes time to get back to prime skating condition and then finally game condition. My guess give him another 2 months and he should be fine.

It’s about 16 months since the start of injured groin talk around here ... to bad that 9 month break didn’t help. His skating looks good, better than most on the team.

Hopefully a healed up groin will improve his puck possession, distribution, and separation skills.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I did hurt mine about 10 years ago in a game and it has never been quite the same since. I also started suffering from back pain on the same side about 6 or 7 years ago, and I really believe compensating for the groin caused that.

Now, I was in my 40's when it happened... not sure any aspect of my experience is applicable to a guy in his early 20's.

I never hurt mine beyond a mild strain during a pre game stretch where an old time trainer tried to get us to work on our splits to stretch out pre-game ... well damn well I would have been better off with stupid soccer balls kicks ... i felt a little twitch and got out of splits never to do one again ... well sh*t it affected my ability to pivot skating backwards without pain for rest of season ... and it was not even torn ... when you tear it even a little like Colin did to his hip flexor you should be done as pain impacts every stride you take .. basically no skating for months ... but guys try to play through things and it affects performance ... a very bad mistake but guys still do it ... he would have been better off taking rest of season off and coming back fresh and fully healed

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It’s about 16 months since the start of injured groin talk around here ... to bad that 9 month break didn’t help. His skating looks good, better than most on the team.

Hopefully a healed up groin will improve his puck possession, distribution, and separation skills.

Skating is his differentiator ... he creates separation by hitting another gear ... great puck skill is not his best friend his hands are ok

 

[ijif]

That's not only NHL scouts though. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, just reporting the facts of how White was perceived for this draft class.

Oh and if stats BEFORE the draft are really that important, then you don't draft Pinto, Formenton, Batherson, etc. It's all about what a team project a young player to become. No team should draft for what the player is at the moment of the draft, but a few years down the road.

I specifically mentioned NHL scouts because as an "internet scout", I think it is self-evident that I would respect other "internet scouts" and scouting services to some extent.

I understand how White was perceived. I know he had mono, and he did not receive primary offensive usage. These factors may have impacted his offensive numbers; however, I am going to let another team select him. That team can hope those reasons are true. I am not going to risk it. I'll take a player that had good numbers with no excuses needed.

The above is not really important. The main reason I am responding to you is because of your Pinto claim. Selecting a PPG+ USHL player in the second round is a fine pick. Off the top of my head, I think the only two players that were clearly stronger statistical players were Bobby Brink and Arthur Kaliyev. I'm not suggesting to always select the strongest statistical player, but every player taken should have a good statistical profile relative to draft position

Who are you referring to with the "etc"? From 2009-now, our late-round steals would likely be considered to be Hoffman, Stone, Dzingel, and Pageau. They are all strong statistical picks, so I am confused on who you are talking about. You pointed out two players that have more or less done nothing at the NHL level.

You claim no team should draft for the present. A team should draft for the future. I agree, and I never suggested otherwise.

 

[bert]

Yeah it was seen as a great pick after that freshman year.

I didn’t like the puck when it was made. Those hands, that production. Going 21 overall in THAT draft?
But then he started to prove some doubters wrong but now we are here he’s trying to rediscover his game.

He was amazing at the U 18's scored the gold medal goal in overtime. Then got sick/hurt his draft year and actually dropped he was seen as a top 15 pick.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He was amazing at the U 18's scored the gold medal goal in overtime. Then got sick/hurt his draft year and actually dropped he was seen as a top 15 pick.

I saw that goal on tv live. He was okay. I mean even then. The hands weren’t top 6 hands.

 

[bert]

I saw that goal on tv live. He was okay. I mean even then. The hands weren’t top 6 hands.

I thought he could be a Darcy Tucker type, he has pretty good hands in tight. Has a decent shot, I just think he needs a chance. His confidence is obviously an issue, starting off as a healthy wasnt going to help that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I thought he could be a Darcy Tucker type, he has pretty good hands in tight. Has a decent shot, I just think he needs a chance. His confidence is obviously an issue, starting off as a healthy wasnt going to help that.

Oh I don’t think he should be out of the lineup. He should definitely be in *this* lineup.
I don’t mind him I think he could be part of a great third line and he could fill into the top 6

could make a great line mate for formenton one day.