Prospect Info: Liljegren will be the best Toronto d-man

[ULF_55]

It seems as though he isn't really NHL ready. He didn't play a full season again, due to injuries, limiting his ice time. He has no points in the playoffs so far. I'd like to see him DOMINATE in the AHL, before consideration is made to move him to the Leafs. He's going to need at least another year.

Does he have to dominate though? We've heard it before, the AHL isn't always easier to play in as a defenseman because you're playing with AHL talent and it is more structured in the NHL. Mind you I'm not sure the Leafs and structured can exist in the same sentence.

Sergachev didn't dominate the AHL. Of course Sergachev isn't a wisp of smoke either.

I kind of think the Leafs options

1. another Hainsey
2. costly trade acquisition
3. see what they have in Liljegren
4. fill the Holl with someone else

I think I could go with option 3

 

[BertCorbeau]

I’d expect him to be knocking on the callup door in early 2019 next season, and be able to crack the roster in 19-20 ... but I want to ensure he’s solid defensively which may take an extra year

Either way it’s good to be patient with him. We know the offensive ability will be there but I’d rather teach him properly and ensure he’s stable at both ends of the ice

 

[Buds17]

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410



Okay, now given he is a year older, and he dropped in part because of health issues, is this preseason ranking even close to being correct?

If we believe the above is correct, that a healthy Liljegren would have been a top 5 pick (McKenzie says top 2), should we expect a top 5 pick to get playing time in his draft +1 year?

Who does he have to be better than on the RHD, Carrick or Polak? We know Babcock won't even use Carrick unless he's out of options, and Polak is long in the tooth.

Or do we expect another season in the AHL?

I'd say if he's physically able to play give him an opportunity.

If he's sheltered he can't be much worse than the options Leafs have available.

Sergachev played a full season draft+1 this year.

Tough to say with the entry draft. We know 1OA is essentially guaranteed to make the jump immediately, but beyond that, it can be a guessing game (some do, some get the 9 games, some don't see any NHL time). Player position might also factor. 2nd to 17th might make quite a difference, and obviously we don't nab him without that drop.

He could be better than a (rotating?) 3rd pair D, but is that enough reason to graduate him to the NHL? Does that affect what he might develop into over the long term? Is the objective to have him play in the NHL or excel? He should also have a complement on that pairing that can best ease the jump.

 

[AuraSphere]

What I love about Liljegren is that he's very agile on D with good skating and actually throws the body. You would think he has Marner's figure with the way he skates, but then you see that he's actually physically developed and throws hits. He's still only 18, but oh man I see a lottttttttt of potential with Liljegren. He just needs time, I'd say by the end of 2018-2019 season we'll know for sure the type of player he'll be.

 

[AuraSphere]

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410



Okay, now given he is a year older, and he dropped in part because of health issues, is this preseason ranking even close to being correct?

If we believe the above is correct, that a healthy Liljegren would have been a top 5 pick (McKenzie says top 2), should we expect a top 5 pick to get playing time in his draft +1 year?

Who does he have to be better than on the RHD, Carrick or Polak? We know Babcock won't even use Carrick unless he's out of options, and Polak is long in the tooth.

Or do we expect another season in the AHL?

I'd say if he's physically able to play give him an opportunity.

If he's sheltered he can't be much worse than the options Leafs have available.

Sergachev played a full season draft+1 this year.

Unless he has a strong off-season, I HIGHLY doubt Liljegren will start the season with the Leafs. He needs another season in the NHL. He's been getting sheltered in the AHL, let him have a dominant season as a top-pairing there before he comes up.

 

[ULF_55]

What I love about Liljegren is that he's very agile on D with good skating and actually throws the body. You would think he has Marner's figure with the way he skates, but then you see that he's actually physically developed and throws hits. He's still only 18, but oh man I see a lottttttttt of potential with Liljegren. He just needs time, I'd say by the end of 2018-2019 season we'll know for sure the type of player he'll be.

Just a slight correction, he turned 19 April 30th.

6', 190 lbs. isn't small.

 

[Morbo]

he's 18.

some people need to chill out and remember the concept of "player development"...true, the Leafs haven't historically done too much of that, but we're run competently now.

 

[TOGuy14]

I'd give him another season in the AHL and look to sign a veteran to a short term deal.

I know he isn't exactly the type of D we need, but I would offer Mike Green a decent 1 or 2 year deal to bridge the gap until Lil is ready OR move Gardiner for an equivalent RHD and sign someone like CDH/Hamhuis/Cole as a replacement on the bottom pair.

 

[DowntownConnorBrown]

leafs stole him i think he could be better then half the players pick ahead of him in the 2017 draft

 

[ponder]

I like Liljegren a lot, but I’m not sure he’s ready just yet. I’m hoping we package Gards in a deal for a reliable, 2-way RD. If so, or lineup would look something like:

Rielly - Hainsey
Dermott - <trade>
Borgman - Zaitsev
Carrick

Or:

Rielly - <trade>
Dermott - Hainsey
Borgman - Zaitsev
Carrick

If we don’t make a deal for an RD, Liljegren will have a shot to make the team, but ... we really should make a deal. Liljegren could learn to dominate in the AHL, then make the Leafs the following year, when Hainsey will likely be gone (UFA, plus getting old).

 

[sxvnert]

The point is develop him as a capable top four D, not a bottom pairing PP specialist.

Would keep him on the marlies for three years total, then reassess. Still has a long way to go defensively and physically.

 

[Bomber0104]

What do Ryan Suter, Dan Hamhuis, Brent Burns, Trevor Daley, and Vyacheslav Voinov have in common?

They all scored 0.3 - 0.4ppg in the AHL starting the season before their 20th birthdays.

Liljegren has scored 0.38ppg in the AHL as an 18 year-old. Out of that above list, only Voinov did that.

I think we've got another good one here, guys.

Neat stat but defencemen aren't solely assessed on their scoring ability.

The most important criteria is how well they play defence.

We don't need another Jake Gardiner on this team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Neat stat but defencemen aren't solely assessed on their scoring ability.

The most important criteria is how well they play defence.

We don't need another Jake Gardiner on this team.

If he couldn't defend he wouldn't have the puck often enough to rack up points as a rookie. That's why you almost never see "defensive defensemen" with low CHL point totals make the NHL regardless of how good their defensive game appears. If they can't get out of their own zone against teenagers, they're going to get buried against men.

 

[Bomber0104]

If he couldn't defend he wouldn't have the puck often enough to rack up points as a rookie. That's why you almost never see "defensive defensemen" with low CHL point totals make the NHL regardless of how good their defensive game appears. If they can't get out of their own zone against teenagers, they're going to get buried against men.

Then Jake Gardiners point totals obviously mean he's a world-beater defender..

 

[LeafGrief]

I doubt we see him in 2018/2019 unless he takes a huge leap forward in development and forces himself onto the team. He's still playing behind guys like Marincin on the Marlies, we want to see him dominate at that level and force his way onto the team. Where he stands now in his smaller (not a #1) role, there is still clearly lots to learn. When we look at Dermott, we saw a guy who was excellent last year and then absolutely owning the league this year. Even then it took an opportunity on the big club where he stole a job from Borgman. I'm hoping that he becomes a top Marlie next year and then either makes the team out of camp in 2019/2020, or forces his way on at the midpoint of that season. There's lots of time to be patient and reap the rewards. Gostisbehere didn't break into the NHL until he was in his D+4. It might take Liljegren that long to put it all together and while it would be great if he could do it tomorrow, patience will be rewarded if we get a player of that calibre.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Then Jake Gardiners point totals obviously mean he's a world-beater defender..

It's almost like I specifically wrote "as a rookie". Keefe wouldn't play him often enough to get many points if he was a liability defensively. MA Bergeron types who are what they are at 26+ are a different story.

 

[Al14]

Holy cow, thread title! No pressure on Liljegren what so ever. Rielly is good, but, even he hasn't lived up to expectations yet, and, may never will.

 

[ULF_55]

Neat stat but defencemen aren't solely assessed on their scoring ability.

The most important criteria is how well they play defence.

We don't need another Jake Gardiner on this team.

You could have developed Gardiner on the Marlies for a decade and it wouldn't have made him better defensively.

I could study violin for 30 years and never become a virtuoso.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You could have developed Gardiner on the Marlies for a decade and it wouldn't have made him better defensively.

I could study violin for 30 years and never become a virtuoso.

Maybe not virtuoso but after all that time, perhaps you could hold a tune?

 

[Morbo]

You could have developed Gardiner on the Marlies for a decade and it wouldn't have made him better defensively.

I could study violin for 30 years and never become a virtuoso.

he is what he is. too mercurial to depend on in a 20 minute + role.

Leafs would be well advised to move him now and sell high. still has a year left, 50 point season.

 

[ULF_55]

Maybe not virtuoso but after all that time, perhaps you could hold a tune?

Not sure ... after 63 years my voice hasn't improved!

 

[ULF_55]

he is what he is. too mercurial to depend on in a 20 minute + role.

Leafs would be well advised to move him now and sell high. still has a year left, 50 point season.

I completely agree with this strategy.

We know he'll get the points but we know every time out there will be an adventure, and with Andersen in net ...

 

[saltming]

You could have developed Gardiner on the Marlies for a decade and it wouldn't have made him better defensively.

I could study violin for 30 years and never become a virtuoso.

Being second fiddle is not that bad really

 

[nobody]

Let Timothy take his time. We have absolutely zero reasons to rush him. This kid missed almost half a developmental year in his draft year and was one of the reasons why he didn't go high. He had good fortune and dropped down in the draft and landed in our laps because he would've had enormous pressure and zero confidence to fill the expectations had he been a top 5 pick. Right now he's an after thought in the draft.

I've watched the Marlies a solid chunk this year. Timmy is developing very well. Where he is right now with his gane, there's a night and day difference from the beginning of the season. He started off the year as a very hesitant player who had trouble reading passing lanes and would often get turned inside out by the opposing team when they were breaking into the Marlies zone.

Everyone knew that this kid had elite puck carrying skills and a half decent shot with excel passing. His biggest question was his strength, hockey IQ and defensive abilities. This season he has improved 50 fold on the backend. He has played more physical as the season has gone on and he's playing with much more awareness than he did before.

Early season lilly was a lock for one terrible give away that would turn into a grade A scoring chance. Similar to what Jake's been doing with the Leafs . But he has eliminated that from his game over the second half of the year. Timmy understands he can make boring safe plays instead of trying to his luck to make something happen. That is a big maturation step in his game.

Lastly, of all the defensemen to go in and out of lineups Timothy is still at the moment the youngest player in the AHL and he's played all 6 games with the top place Marlies team. Rookies usually get scratched when the games get crucial but he's played well enough to have the coaching staffs respect. Timothy might not be picking up points right now but he's not a liability in his own end. And that is what is extremely important developmentally.

Next year I expect him to get a massive bump up in ice time and I think we will see the bandwagon Lilly fans crash this thread and other threads singing his praises because they'll see fancy numbers being put up by a 19 year old.

As for those ripping on Jake. Give him a break. He's a fantastic player but he's prone to gaffs. Multi Norris trophy winner Erik Karlsson has been -5 twice this year in games. He's absolute trash defensively and yet people praise him like he's a generational defenseman. Had Jake produced #s in the series this year, I think many would judge him less harshly. With that said, I would try to pawn him to Edmonton for a solid return since they are desperate for what Jake brings and we probably won't be re-up him after next year.

 

[BlueBaron]

Unless he has a strong off-season, I HIGHLY doubt Liljegren will start the season with the Leafs. He needs another season in the NHL. He's been getting sheltered in the AHL, let him have a dominant season as a top-pairing there before he comes up.

Or 2 or 3.

I am of the mind he should not leave the AHL until there are no questions about his defense.

As another poster said, I'd like to see him get the first line treatment on the Marlies, all situations, 24+ minutes of ice time, play every game and when he is ready he can walk into our top 4.

Last thing we need to do is rush him.

I remember a lot of our fans were in complete denial about him saying he would be on the team out of the draft. Our culture now makes pushing people so quickly a thing of the past. He's too important long term to take any chances with..