Confirmed with Link: Lightning re-sign Andrei Vasilevskiy (3 years, $3.5M cap hit, $10.5M total)

[RDTBay4]

Where did I even mention the word Vezina? I said he was going to be one of the top goalies in the league.

So top 3 in SV% and/or GA?

 

[tjs*]

I find it ironic that one of the most consistent goaltenders and top goaltenders the past 3 years isn't "reliable" over a 21 year old backup who's a shoe in for a soft goal per game and has off games every other game.

It can't be understated how much Bishop makes up for defensive breakdowns, our defense was not good last season, forwards or defensemen in general yet we finished as a top team in the league due to Bishop alone. Unless the forwards can for sure get back to the top of their games, the 1st year Vasi starts we'll be seeing a lot more goals against and dip in the standings.

It's pretty obvious from my post that I'm referring to reliability in terms of being available to play during the postseason. Bishop is clearly the better goaltender when he's healthy but he has yet to go a postseason without getting injured and in two out of the three he essentially missed the entire series. It doesn't matter how good Bishop is if he can't stay healthy for a playoff run.

 

[Lovethiscity]

It's pretty obvious from my post that I'm referring to reliability in terms of being available to play during the postseason. Bishop is clearly the better goaltender when he's healthy but he has yet to go a postseason without getting injured and in two out of the three he essentially missed the entire series. It doesn't matter how good Bishop is if he can't stay healthy for a playoff run.

The injuries aren't related to eachother. You can look back at an unlucky streak but you can't predict one.

 

[DFC]

Is that counting playoffs? Because the Pens put up 35+ shots a game against everybody basically. So unless all the goalies they played against sucked equally it's not a very informative stat. That's why I'm not terribly worked up about that aspect of Vasilevskiy's playoffs. Let's not forget most of his starts were the 2nd of a back to back as well. Is it really Vasi giving up those shots or the guys in front of him anyway? If there were a rebound stat I'd be more convinced that it's a serious systemic issue with him. It's a valid criticism don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's carved in stone that his existence between the pipes suddenly invites 10-15 more shots per game over Bishop.

No, it was in the regular season. Vasy gave up 35+ shots 6 times. Bishop gave up 35+ shots 4 times. And Vasy, in general, played weaker teams.

The actual number of shots/60 he gives up vs. Bishop isn't a huge difference, but it's the difference between being 9th in the league in SA vs. 23rd in the league. So, in a way, it is a big difference. I don't think we can make the playoffs being 23rd in SA.

(Disclaimer: I say this while recognizing Vasy IS going to work this out over time, but it might not be all sunshine and roses while he works it out.)

 

[DFC]

You're extrapolating a few playoff games to a kids entire career. That isn't fair. We were simply outmatched when it came to speed, because we have either bad and/or slow defensemen.

I'm not talking about the Pens series. I'm talking about the regular season games he played.

 

[tjs*]

The injuries aren't related to eachother. You can look back at an unlucky streak but you can't predict one.

Again, though, we're talking three times in as many years. He has yet to get through a single postseason healthy. Maybe he's just had a horrible run of bad luck but you can't give him a $7M x 7 contract on that hope in this flat cap world - not when you have so many other key players to resign and a high potential young replacement available for him. Maybe we could have taken a chance on him at a shorter term if he would have been willing and we hadn't resigned Stamkos, but that option is gone now. Vasy is a risk too but he's a risk we can get out from under if he doesn't work out; a constantly injured Bishop with an albatross contract would destroy us.

 

[DFC]

Again, though, we're talking three times in as many years. He has yet to get through a single postseason healthy. Maybe he's just had a horrible run of bad luck but you can't give him a $7M x 7 contract on that hope in this flat cap world - not when you have so many other key players to resign and a high potential young replacement available for him. Maybe we could have taken a chance on him at a shorter term if he would have been willing and we hadn't resigned Stamkos, but that option is gone now. Vasy is a risk too but he's a risk we can get out from under if he doesn't work out; a constantly injured Bishop with an albatross contract would destroy us.

But Bishop isn't "constantly" injured. The amount of injuries he's had has been pretty insignificant. It's the timing that's been so bad. It's a concern, for sure, a very legit concern, but it's not like the jury is definitely in and Bishop is "injury prone." Two of the injuries (this past year and the one in 2014) were pretty freak occurrences.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

some people belong on mandatory ignore list

step on up

 

[tjs*]

But Bishop isn't "constantly" injured. The amount of injuries he's had has been pretty insignificant. It's the timing that's been so bad. It's a concern, for sure, a very legit concern, but it's not like the jury is definitely in and Bishop is "injury prone." Two of the injuries (this past year and the one in 2014) were pretty freak occurrences.

I'm saying if his issues get worse going forward. Worst case if Vasy doesn't work out is we look for another goalie - his contract isn't going to cost us any of our young core and it won't cripple us capwise. It would be unfortunate to be sure, but ultimately we would be able to recover from it. If we resign Bishop on the other hand we're looking at losing a very good player to account for the difference between his contract and Vasy's, and then if his injury issues get worse and he does end up constantly hampered by injuries we'll be too crippled by his contract to recover.

 

[Hoek]

No, it was in the regular season. Vasy gave up 35+ shots 6 times. Bishop gave up 35+ shots 4 times. And Vasy, in general, played weaker teams.

The actual number of shots/60 he gives up vs. Bishop isn't a huge difference, but it's the difference between being 9th in the league in SA vs. 23rd in the league. So, in a way, it is a big difference. I don't think we can make the playoffs being 23rd in SA.

(Disclaimer: I say this while recognizing Vasy IS going to work this out over time, but it might not be all sunshine and roses while he works it out.)

So I broke it down:

11/1 @CAR W 4-3, 35 shots against - 2nd of road B2B
11/27 @WAS L 2-4, 37 shots against - 2nd of 3 games in 4 nights, strong opponent
12/15 @TOR W 5-4, 37 shots against - 2nd of road B2B
1/15 PIT W 5-4, 40 shots against - start of a homestand (teams tend to underperform first game home), strong opponent
2/18 WPG W 6-5, 41 shots against - end of a homestand, weak opponent (though the Jets also got 36 shots against Bishop in October)
3/7 @PHI L 2-4, 39 shots against - 1st of a B2B, opponent on a hot streak that went and beat Bishop as well four days later, albeit on fewer shots

Honestly hard to knock Vasi for those games too much within context, and he did win 4 of those 6 for better or worse.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Murray raised the cup first try, a win is a win. Vasi choked twice.

So by that logic, everyone who hasn't won a cup is bad. Got it.

I mean, Bishop is bad is what you're getting at, no?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I don't get how any of you think a coherent argument can be formed for the amount of shots given up compared to who is in net. He can't control the amount of shots he faces, and at this point about... five teams track significant rebounds (and subsequent heatmaps for said rebounds).

 

[AimForTopCheddar]

Murray raised the cup first try, a win is a win. Vasi choked twice.

Ugh, what an ignorant post. Vasi kept us afloat in the ECF against a team that outshot us badly. Murray's team was much better than Vasi's.

 

[AimForTopCheddar]

I don't get how any of you think a coherent argument can be formed for the amount of shots given up compared to who is in net. He can't control the amount of shots he faces, and at this point about... five teams track significant rebounds (and subsequent heatmaps for said rebounds).

I think what some are referring to is Bish's ability to relieve zone pressure when he plays the puck. He's one of the best at handling the puck and moving it out of his own zone among goalies.

 

[Sky04]

I'm saying if his issues get worse going forward. Worst case if Vasy doesn't work out is we look for another goalie - his contract isn't going to cost us any of our young core and it won't cripple us capwise. It would be unfortunate to be sure, but ultimately we would be able to recover from it. If we resign Bishop on the other hand we're looking at losing a very good player to account for the difference between his contract and Vasy's, and then if his injury issues get worse and he does end up constantly hampered by injuries we'll be too crippled by his contract to recover.

Because it's that easy right? Let's play goalie roulette again, see TBL: 2005-2013.

 

[Todd1a]

So by that logic, everyone who hasn't won a cup is bad. Got it.

I mean, Bishop is bad is what you're getting at, no?

The king in New York never won a cup so I guess he sucks also ! Fans do get the Penguins were a monster they rolled three awesome lines!

 

[RDTBay4]

My statement had more to do with their comparable age. They both were equally experienced yet Murray won it all. Vasi's rebound control is atrocious and he let in unacceptable goals in pretty much every game.

No one can say anything that will convince me we would have fared the same or worse with Bishop in net during that series. We did play like dog **** most of the time but that's when Bish shines and saves us. I just don't see Vasilevskiy being able to step in as a full time starter and the Lightning making the playoffs.

That said, I hope I am wrong, and will gladly come eat the crow. I just don't get how everyone is crowning this kid.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Not crowning the kid but his performance was impressive. He still has a bit to go to round his game out but he was a reason why TB had a chance to win that series. I would say that in 2 of the losses we had against the Pens he gave us a chance to win the game. Even the games we lost convincingly, he kept the games closer than they should have been. I'm not ready to say he can be as good as Bishop is or better but he has got elite skill as a goaltender and is totally capable of getting there.

 

[2MinutesforGiraffing]

That said, I hope I am wrong, and will gladly come eat the crow. I just don't get how everyone is crowning this kid.

Yeah, I don't either. Sample size is way too small to declare him a competent starter. If we go all in on Vasy, I expect some growing pains. Just like Montreal when they went all in on Price a few seasons back. Anyone who thinks we can just slot in Vasilevskiy for Bish and keep the train rolling is delusional.

 

[Hoek]

"Vasi is ****ing TRASH. It's ENTIRELY his fault we lost!"

"Actually he did ok and we might be ok with him next year"

"OMFG YOURE CROWNING HIM THE BEST GOALIE EVAR??"

Can we get some actual analysis instead of hyperbole and banging the same salty agenda since we lost? Thanks.

 

[tjs*]

Because it's that easy right? Let's play goalie roulette again, see TBL: 2005-2013.

In either worst case scenario we'd be looking for a new goalie; the difference is that Vasy failing wouldn't cost us part of our core and cripple us capwise for the next 7-8 years like Bishop's injury problems worsening would.

 

[Werewolf]

No way we can keep Bishop ... cap crunch next year is REAL. People better start getting used to the idea ... we cannot keep Bishop. Per my calculations with the following cap hits:

Drouin RFA - $4M, Palat RFA - $5.5M, Johnson RFA - $5.5, Koekkoek RFA - $1.5M, Sustr RFA - $2M. With these cap hits plus a backup goalie at $1M and Filp Traded and Boyle not re-signed. We would be about $8M over the CAP if it were raised to $76M - yep that would mean an $84M roster next year. It is going to be hard enough without Bishop as we still need to find around $2M next year even without him.

So those people who are still in the Bishop camp ... get used to the idea of replacing him. Or by this time next year you are going to be *****ing & moaning about why our forwards can't score instead of Vasi's average rebound control.

 

[RDTBay4]

Las Vegas is officially the team I hate the most.

 

[Sky04]

No way we can keep Bishop ... cap crunch next year is REAL. People better start getting used to the idea ... we cannot keep Bishop. Per my calculations with the following cap hits:

Drouin RFA - $4M, Palat RFA - $5.5M, Johnson RFA - $5.5, Koekkoek RFA - $1.5M, Sustr RFA - $2M. With these cap hits plus a backup goalie at $1M and Filp Traded and Boyle not re-signed. We would be about $8M over the CAP if it were raised to $76M - yep that would mean an $84M roster next year. It is going to be hard enough without Bishop as we still need to find around $2M next year even without him.

So those people who are still in the Bishop camp ... get used to the idea of replacing him. Or by this time next year you are going to be *****ing & moaning about why our forwards can't score instead of Vasi's average rebound control.

I'm moreso towards keeping Bishop till the end of his contract but likewise everyone in the Vasi-now camp is going to be crying about much more defensive zone scrambling and goals against.

 

[DFC]

I don't get how any of you think a coherent argument can be formed for the amount of shots given up compared to who is in net. He can't control the amount of shots he faces, and at this point about... five teams track significant rebounds (and subsequent heatmaps for said rebounds).

I think he does, to an extent, control the amount of shots he faces. Or I guess I should say I think Bishop controls the amount of shots he faces via killing plays.