NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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i think my first sentence clarifies while my second line mentions the lack of hitting in Europe. No sure what you are responding too
Prospect Info: Lias Andersson - Part IV
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i think my first sentence clarifies while my second line mentions the lack of hitting in Europe. No sure what you are responding too
Rongomania
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Amazing Kreiderman
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Rongomania
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Hahaha thank you!! Twins! Supposed to be girls, so hopefully in 18 years we'll have some women's national team beasts!
Amazing Kreiderman
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Rongomania
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The NHLPA is a union. They have an obligation to represent their members to the fullest of their abilities. If a player has an option to appeal a fine or suspension for a dirty hit, the NHLPA is obligated to represent that player. That's one of the main benefits of union membership--your dues are basically like having an attorney on retainer.
Of course, the guy on the other side of the hit might be annoyed by this. But if that other guy ever found himself fined or suspended, the NHLPA would step in for him all the same. They have to; it's a principal/legal precedent known as duty of fair representation. It's why the union always supports the player even when the player has done something awful.
The NHLPA can work with the league to tighten measures preventing hits to the head (as they have in the past decade) and work to educate their players (again, as they have), but as long as an appeals process exists, then they will represent their players in appeals.
Of course, the guy on the other side of the hit might be annoyed by this. But if that other guy ever found himself fined or suspended, the NHLPA would step in for him all the same. They have to; it's a principal/legal precedent known as duty of fair representation. It's why the union always supports the player even when the player has done something awful.
The NHLPA can work with the league to tighten measures preventing hits to the head (as they have in the past decade) and work to educate their players (again, as they have), but as long as an appeals process exists, then they will represent their players in appeals.
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Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
I stopped being a fan of this kid a long time ago but he’s been very good. Better than his draft year or with Frolunda. Although it’s clear he’s happier, I’m not going to blame a class organization with an impeccable reputation for player treatment like the Rangers for Andersson’s struggles.
I get the feeling his public complaints blacklisted him, much like Ho-Sang. Detroit would have been a great landing spot with vacancies at center and wing, but I will take it to my grave that Gorton offered Lias rather than the 2nd and Yzerman said not a chance.
I say it’s 80/20 he gets moved at the draft for a 3rd or 4th. San Jose, Arizona, Minnesota are three teams who could use him since they have openings and need to get younger. Other options here in the east as well (Buffalo) but I would ship him out west.
If he keeps playing this well, a team has to consider him as a cheap option at center with a year left on an ELC and while playing for a new deal.
I get the feeling his public complaints blacklisted him, much like Ho-Sang. Detroit would have been a great landing spot with vacancies at center and wing, but I will take it to my grave that Gorton offered Lias rather than the 2nd and Yzerman said not a chance.
I say it’s 80/20 he gets moved at the draft for a 3rd or 4th. San Jose, Arizona, Minnesota are three teams who could use him since they have openings and need to get younger. Other options here in the east as well (Buffalo) but I would ship him out west.
If he keeps playing this well, a team has to consider him as a cheap option at center with a year left on an ELC and while playing for a new deal.
Amazing Kreiderman
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His ELC expires after this season, and his loan is until the end of the season, which could be as late as June
The Rangers don't have an impeccable reputation. They screw up just like all organizations. Lias made some mistakes but Quinn treated him like garbage and rewarded Howden with more icetime after Lias clearly outplayed him in the pre-season. That's not a classy thing to do and it gives other young players the wrong idea of what the pre-season is worth. Rangers didn't handle the Shattenkirk thing all that well.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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He's not getting more than a $975k or $1.025M contract as a 2 year bridge. His NHL career doesn't have enough backing to it
Amazing Kreiderman
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Yes but he won't have a year left on his ELC as Steve said, once he goes back to NA.
kovazub94
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I hear you but I disagree.
NHLPA has an obligation to step in all situations- if they think NHL ruling is unfair either in being too punitive OR too lenient. But their MO seems to be to not interfere at all if the punishment is too lenient and automatically step in if the punishment is punitive but appropriate in the context of the offense.
But the union is never going to argue something is too lenient. That is the literal opposite of what they are there to do. It would be akin to a defense attorney deciding his client's sentence wasn't severe enough and asking for more jail time.
I really do get where you're coming from, but each individual player pays dues to the NHLPA and that legally entitles them to the support of the NHLPA in disciplinary matters. If the NHLPA instead argued for a member to be punished, they could, would, and should be sued by the player for breach of duty of fair representation.
kovazub94
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This is where the difference is. NHLPA has to act in dual roles as either a defense attorney or a prosecutor depending on the situation.
Not when it comes to discipline imposed upon a player. In that situation, their only obligation is to the disciplined player. Again, it may feel like they should also be considering the other player, but that is not their job and they just cannot do it.
If there was a mechanism where a player who was on the receiving end of a bad hit could somehow affect the punishment received by the guy who threw the hit, then yeah, the NHLPA would have to serve as a mediator of sorts between the two players. But that isn't a mechanism that exists; the only thing the NHLPA can affect is the punishment and it's their obligation to help the player through the appeals process.
I really do understand why there is a desire to see the PA advocate for both sides. But they literally can't.
No the Rangers do need to learn. Kovacs, Lias, and Vitali. It's not finger pointing for the sake of placing blame, it's identifying an issue or a trend to learn from and do better. The Rangers have a very astute and smart management group, times change, it's Gen Z taking over right now, that's why you see younger coaches coming in as well. It's why Travis Green gets a lot of praise. It's one of Quinnie's strengths as well.
Cag29
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- Jul 18, 2018
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6 million a year is a very generous offer.
Shattenkirk Came in out of shape and lied about injuries. Screw him. He was mediocre at best.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
Rangers have been around for almost 100 years. They do have an excellent reputation around the league and not just from the players. It's a results-based industry. Shattenkirk underperformed. Andersson underperformed. One guy acted mature about the it. The other didn't.
The truth is that Lias went to the media with unsubstantiated accusations against the organization and not a soul has come forward to corroborate what he said. A coach playing favorites has nothing to do with the fact that the Rangers employ hundreds of people who treat the players like rock stars. Money isn't the only selling point when players come here -- they are known around the league as a class organization.
As far as Howden, he's nothing special, but he most certainly outperformed Andersson from the onset and made Quinn's decision's easier. Talk to anyone in the Rangers' organization and they will tell you that Howden is incredibly mature and selfless, and willing to learn without demanding anything or asking for perfect conditions.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
Which season? 2019-20 or 2021? I was under the impression his ELC ran from 2018-19 to 2020-21, meaning any team who acquires him at the draft will have him with an ELC until July 1, 2021 and have him playing for a contract that season
I don’t think you understand the point of the players union.
This would be the same as a union saying one of their employees salaries is too high. Or that a punishment is too soft.
It would go agains the interest which they are there to serve.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Yes, his ELC expires July 1st 2021. But he is loaned to HV71 for the entire season, which could be as late as June depending on NT call ups
eco's bones
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I'm sorry the Rangers do really well by their players. I get that some people can go down into a rabbit hole where they're feeling down on themselves and not communicating about their problems. It happens. From what I've read Andersson kind of lost it and needed help and didn't seek it and finally he was in a place where he was looking for someone else to blame for what were really his issues. You can't usually mind read someone. To me it speaks to a certain level of immaturity on his part but that can be something he grows from hopefully. I don't hate the guy but I think it's probably best we move on from him.
It's a horrible take IMO you have on Lias and Howden. What you do in pre-season has to be sustainable in the regular season. Lias wasn't able to do that.
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